‘Smart’ motorways

Mar 14, 2005
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Recent experience of engine power problems while towing on the smart sections og M6 were easily the most stressful of my 50 plus years with a caravan. The section was still under build so no overhead signs but no hard shoulder either. Fortunately we made about 30 miles to a site at around 20mph but it was not funny at all. We did not leave at a service area since this was during the fuel crisis and lines back to the slip roads.
Looking at the refuges at each mile they appeared
little longer than the 12m outfit and had minimal run in to the active lane, again not a good place to do a standing start into a 60 mph lane.
Subsequently I have been told that some recovery companies will not recover you from smart motorways unless and until they have police or Highway agency vehicles escorting and protectiing the operation. While this is understandable it will take a while to organise and presumably cost.
I and a number of other caravanners I know feel these roads are very dangerous and should be avoided if possible. Difficult though if going to some ferries or long trips. If you feel the same please contact your MP and complain.
 
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Nov 6, 2005
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The refuges are big enough to accommodate a 40' artic, longer than car + caravan - if you are unfortunate to need to use a refuge, you MUST contact the control room on the telephone provided and WAIT for them to close lane 1 to allow you to exit and accelerate up to normal speed.
 
Jul 30, 2007
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Yep.
Sent a letter a few months ago.
I hate travelling on "smart"motorways.
I see the AA recommend that if you break down on a "smart"motorway in the "live"lane,you should phone for help,remain in your vehicle and put your hazards and seatbelts on.
Well.....thats a great reassurance especially as there maybe another idiot driving a lorry(not "tarring" all lorry drivers here), who's just spent the last minute on his phone,texting,talking,and watching You Tube.
Remember the lorry a while ago who smashed into a line of stationary traffic and reduced that white car to half its length?

NO......Smart lanes on motorways should be abolished immediately.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Yep.
Sent a letter a few months ago.
I hate travelling on "smart"motorways.
I see the AA recommend that if you break down on a "smart"motorway in the "live"lane,you should phone for help,remain in your vehicle and put your hazards and seatbelts on.
Well.....thats a great reassurance especially as there maybe another idiot driving a lorry(not "tarring" all lorry drivers here), who's just spent the last minute on his phone,texting,talking,and watching You Tube.
Remember the lorry a while ago who smashed into a line of stationary traffic and reduced that white car to half its length?

NO......Smart lanes on motorways should be abolished immediately.
If you breakdown in a lane adjacent to the crash barrier, it's best to climb over the barrier and get away as far as practical.

Unfortunately, the government is damned if they do and damned if they don't - old style hard shoulders have a poor accident record and the congestion from running 3 lanes + hard shoulder increases the risk of accident because inattentive drivers are there whether the motorway is smart or not.
 
Jul 30, 2007
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I do agree with you Roger but if someone in the car is disabled,what chance do they have of climbing over a barrier to safety.
I feel much safer driving on a motorway with a hard shoulder where I'm sure that if I do break down,and can't make it to one of those safe refuges, I have time to exit the vehicle to safety without the worry of a car/coach/ lorry being close behind me at motorway speeds and not paying attention.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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I do agree with you Roger but if someone in the car is disabled,what chance do they have of climbing over a barrier to safety.
I feel much safer driving on a motorway with a hard shoulder where I'm sure that if I do break down,and can't make it to one of those safe refuges, I have time to exit the vehicle to safety without the worry of a car/coach/ lorry being close behind me at motorway speeds and not paying attention.
On a road forum, frequented by engineers, there's much criticism of the almost continuous barriers alongside smart motorways.
 
Oct 8, 2006
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HMG has just made it a criminal offence to pass a red cross over the lane you are in - but what can you do if there is no gap to your right and no-one will give way? Make a name for yourself but if the reason for the red cross is just around the bend........

There was a fatal on the M1 just north of J34 at Sheffield where a lorry ploughed into the back of two cars that had had a bump and stopped on the running lane. IIRC the lorry driver was jailed and the dead men characterised as saints by their families. What idiot stops on a running lane to exchange names and addresses after a bump? They did - instead or driving to the next exit (less than a mile) which being local they would have known about!

D'oh!
 
Nov 6, 2005
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HMG has just made it a criminal offence to pass a red cross over the lane you are in - but what can you do if there is no gap to your right and no-one will give way? Make a name for yourself but if the reason for the red cross is just around the bend........

There was a fatal on the M1 just north of J34 at Sheffield where a lorry ploughed into the back of two cars that had had a bump and stopped on the running lane. IIRC the lorry driver was jailed and the dead men characterised as saints by their families. What idiot stops on a running lane to exchange names and addresses after a bump? They did - instead or driving to the next exit (less than a mile) which being local they would have known about!

D'oh!
AFAIK it's always been an offence to use a lane marked by a red cross - but compliance is low.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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The refuges are big enough to accommodate a 40' artic, longer than car + caravan - if you are unfortunate to need to use a refuge, you MUST contact the control room on the telephone provided and WAIT for them to close lane 1 to allow you to exit and accelerate up to normal speed.
My Santa Fe and Coachman 560, total 12.14 meters, the longest artic HGVs are 16.5 meters. Not much difference.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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HMG has just made it a criminal offence to pass a red cross over the lane you are in - but what can you do if there is no gap to your right and no-one will give way? Make a name for yourself but if the reason for the red cross is just around the bend........

There was a fatal on the M1 just north of J34 at Sheffield where a lorry ploughed into the back of two cars that had had a bump and stopped on the running lane. IIRC the lorry driver was jailed and the dead men characterised as saints by their families. What idiot stops on a running lane to exchange names and addresses after a bump? They did - instead or driving to the next exit (less than a mile) which being local they would have known about!

D'oh!
On some motorways with overhead gantry controls you can see a Red Cross illuminated in any lane. Reasons could be an accident or road works. And my understanding has always been that it was a driving offence to ignore the cross. It’s a red command. The recent change makes automatic fines and points unavoidable.
Must freshen up my memory and read the new Highway Code. Need to make sure that those who beep me as I cross side road, or a supermarket entrance/exit can be reminded of their obligation, which are nit new but widely ignored too.
 
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Jan 3, 2012
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If you breakdown in a lane adjacent to the crash barrier, it's best to climb over the barrier and get away as far as practical.

Unfortunately, the government is damned if they do and damned if they don't - old style hard shoulders have a poor accident record and the congestion from running 3 lanes + hard shoulder increases the risk of accident because inattentive drivers are there whether the motorway is smart or not.
i think i would have a problem if i broke down because with me in a wheelchair how do i get over a barrier .
 
Nov 6, 2005
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i think i would have a problem if i broke down because with me in a wheelchair how do i get over a barrier .
Even on a conventional motorway with hard shoulder, the advice is the same - get over any barrier and up any embankment if possible - the "if possible" being applicable in your case.
 
May 7, 2012
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These smart motorways can only be the idea of accountants as it is blatantly obvious that they are far too dangerous and that refuges at 1.5 miles apart are almost certainly out of reach of many who break down. They now want to quote statistics of accidents per mile to justify this based on current traffic levels which are far lighter than normal and far from correct for normal use.
The control rooms are apparently undermanned, cameras point the wrong way and they simply cannot manage the problems quickly enough making the situation even worse.
They seem to be the brainchild of some people who are totally un willing to admit they might even be slightly wrong and risk killing even more innocent people before someone stops them. The fact that they ignore even the government and carry on seems to indicate they need removing quickly and the concept dropped.
 
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Jan 3, 2012
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Even on a conventional motorway with hard shoulder, the advice is the same - get over any barrier and up any embankment if possible - the "if possible" being applicable in your case.
Might able to sit on the barrier and get over but getting up embankment no chance
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Might able to sit on the barrier and get over but getting up embankment no chance
I would think that just being the other side of the barrier may be sufficient. However you also need to get the dogs over the barrier if they are with you at the time of the breakdown.
 
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I would think that just being the other side of the barrier may be sufficient. However you also need to get the dogs over the barrier if they are with you at the time of the breakdown.
That would be the wife job getting them over the barrier
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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Can you please point to the legislation that states it is a criminal offence under the Roads and Traffic Act? Thanks.
It’s very easy these days to find answers to questions. Google and other search engines are increasingly sophisticated. The link below doesn’t quite the legislation but hopefully coming from HMG it will have sufficient credence to satisfy you. The relatively recent change that seems to have awoken people is that now if you ignore the Red Cross you can get an automatic fine and penalty points via ANPR surveillance.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/red-x-means-dont-drive-in-that-lane

The link also reinforces my opinion that there are a lot of “ ignorant” drivers out there blissfully unaware of the law, or willing to blatantly ignore it.
 
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Nov 16, 2015
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It’s very easy these days to find answers to questions. Google and other search engines are increasingly sophisticated. The link below doesn’t quite the legislation but hopefully coming from HMG it will have sufficient credence to satisfy you. The relatively recent change that seems to have awoken people is that now if you ignore the Red Cross you can get an automatic fine and penalty points via ANPR surveillance.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/red-x-means-dont-drive-in-that-lane

The link also reinforces my opinion that there are a lot of “ ignorant” drivers out there blissfully unaware of the law, or willing to blatantly ignore it.
I have noticed that on the M25 clockwise around the Heathrow area, It seems to be almost compulsery for drivers to ignore the overhead signs.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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It’s very easy these days to find answers to questions. Google and other search engines are increasingly sophisticated. The link below doesn’t quite the legislation but hopefully coming from HMG it will have sufficient credence to satisfy you. The relatively recent change that seems to have awoken people is that now if you ignore the Red Cross you can get an automatic fine and penalty points via ANPR surveillance.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/red-x-means-dont-drive-in-that-lane

The link also reinforces my opinion that there are a lot of “ ignorant” drivers out there blissfully unaware of the law, or willing to blatantly ignore it.
I appreciate that, but is it a "criminal" offence? I do understand that you can get points and a penalty imposed, but I am not sure how the law defines "Criminal Offence" regarding The Road Traffic Act? Is speeding a criminal offence? Googling does not bring up an answers regarding criminality for ignoring the signs. I am asking because if you apply for a Visa to visit another country you are asked if you have any criminal offences.
Just to add this is for interest only as I try and obey traffic regulations as much as possible and have no traffic convictions past or pending.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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If you break the law and finish up with a fine and points I find it hard to believe that it’s not a criminal offence as it’s certainly not a civil one. In my experience declaring a criminal offence for visa applications or DBS application generally excludes driving offences, such as speeding, defective tyres etc but not the more serious infringements where the penalty could be or was imprisonment. These would include death by dangerous driving, drink driving etc.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Criminal+offence
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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Lest people forget the average time stopped on a conventional hard shoulder before a death occurred was 11-12 minutes. Motorways care inherently safer per million miles travelled than other roads. Country B roads being the worst. But motorways can be very unsafe places when broken down and stranded on a hard shoulder if you don’t act to minimise the risk when such an incident occurs.
 

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