2006 Bailey Ranger DAMP!!

Sep 7, 2015
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Morning all,

Im guttered i brought my first caravan a 2006 bailey ranger 500/5 and all looked good, however i noticed that the lovey previous owner had over boarded a damp issue
i have removed the over board and found that the damp runs top to bottom on the rear right hand corner. I am guessing that the ingress is from the awning rail.
1. how easy is it to remove the overhead units on so that i can get to the board behind
2. how easy is it to remove the wall board
3. how easy is it to remove and reseal the awning rails.
i feel if im getting into this caravan lark i may as well jump in at the deep end and find out all the ins and outs

cheers
 
Sep 7, 2015
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i suppose all i need to know is how wide spread could this be?
i am looking to strip the wall board tonight after work and see what i find (if i can get the units down!

i have purchased all the required items for the rails to be re sealed and to be honest i have brought enough to seal the entire thing, as i am sure i dont want to go through this again

so my job list -
1 re-seal both awning rails
2 re-seal TV aerial
3 re-seal cassette toilet
4 re-seal elec hook up point
5 re-seal anything else
6 remove inner furniture (rear right as you look from inside)
7 remove wall boards
8 remove any rotton wood
9 allow to dry for 2-3 days
10 replace with new wood (what additive do i use?)
11 re board !!

im a busy man
 
Feb 3, 2008
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emowbray said:
so my job list -
1 re-seal both awning rails
2 re-seal TV aerial
3 re-seal cassette toilet
4 re-seal elec hook up point
5 re-seal anything else

Just checking - by 're-seal' do you mean putting a bit more sealant over what is already there; or strip the joint completely apart, clean off EVERY bit of old sealant, then add new sealant? :eek:hmy:

Note - needs to be the second choice as new sealant will NOT seal over old stuff. :(
 
Sep 7, 2015
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nope its a strip down job!

I was hoping to be in the van over the next few weekends with the kids but looks like i will be spending my evenings and weekends restoring this van to its former looks

any export advice would be great
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Emobray,

Damp in caravans is very murky area, and I think you should be prepared for the worst scenario.

Usually when you find a damp patch on the inside, it often belies the extent of the problem hidden inside the wall or floor.

Also the location of the evidence can be quite remote from the actual source of the leak, so the only way to fully assess the problem is to strip it back following the damaged parts until you find sound material.

If there has been persistent water ingress, then the damage with have spread further, and will often use joints between panels to spread.

Again depending on how long the material has been soaking, I fear it may take more than just a couple of days to dry out. The use of a dehumidifier will help.

You tell us a previous owner has covered up the damaged, lets hope that he actually sorted the leak and simply couldn't be bothered to repair the wall board properly.

I wish you luck with the project.
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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Moderator Information for 'emowbray'
I removed your recent post concerning this same issue from a different message board.
Only one topic on the same subject at any one time please, otherwise any helpful or informative replies will be scattered all over the place
 
Sep 7, 2015
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Hello Emobray,

Damp in caravans is very murky area, and I think you should be prepared for the worst scenario.

Usually when you find a damp patch on the inside, it often belies the extent of the problem hidden inside the wall or floor.

Also the location of the evidence can be quite remote from the actual source of the leak, so the only way to fully assess the problem is to strip it back following the damaged parts until you find sound material.

If there has been persistent water ingress, then the damage with have spread further, and will often use joints between panels to spread.

Again depending on how long the material has been soaking, I fear it may take more than just a couple of days to dry out. The use of a dehumidifier will help.

You tell us a previous owner has covered up the damaged, lets hope that he actually sorted the leak and simply couldn't be bothered to repair the wall board properly.

I wish you luck with the project


^^^ this scares me could this be behond repair, i feel that the selling is now being very very shady and think its hidden to sell NOT REPAIRED
 
Mar 13, 2007
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hi Eddy.
it will not be beyond repair but I think the job may well be a little more complicated than you are prepared for.
reason is a 2006 bailey will have the sandwich board construction, and not the older frame and board construction.
that is the outer aluminium skin the frame and inner board are bonded together as a unit with a foam infill.
you will have to carefully remove the inner board away from the frame [may have to break it in small pieces] with a scraper or wood chisel and then once the inner board is off look for staining further back keep going as far as it goes to find the leak point [as the prof said this may be well away from the damp patch] if any of the frame is rotten [it may well be ] you have to dig out all the foam from around the frame and replace the wood making sure you glue it to the outer skin then refit the inner panels again glued to the fame, before filling the dug out foam with new.
if you dont do this the stiffness in the panels will be lost. as the gluing is what makes the panels ridged.
 
Sep 7, 2015
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That's all good and I understand this.
Can you tell me the type of glue used to bond to the aluminium and to the new wall board.
I have everything in order but these item.

I am going to commence the rip out tonight and will take pictures and keep you informed tomorrow.
 
Mar 13, 2007
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hi, I would use a contact type like no nails or evo stick. and kept the out side panel [now flexible] in a flat even position using a stiff board and prop [buttress style] while pressing the frame in place. if using evo stick though remember it destroys expanded foam so it may be better to use some other type of insulation when rebuilding.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Emobray,

I am certain it is repairable, it's the scale of the job, that I fear you may have underestimated, and as I implied; the only way to find out is to actually start the the work.

If you feel the job is too big or possibly not worth it then you may have some other course of action.

If the caravan was mis-sold to you, then you may have some recourse against the seller. Whenever you make a purchase (even secondhand) you are automatically entering a contract with the seller, and as such the Sale of Goods Act (SoGA) covers the terms of the contract and should ensure the goods are as described and fit for purpose as well as being free from undeclared defects.

Technically this applies to all purchases, but those sales agreed in a private arrangement can be very difficult to challenge (but not impossible) It is generally easier to invoke SoGA with a retail trader or dealer.

In essence, if the caravan was described as "free from damp", then you have a prima facie case of breach of contract, and you are entitled to all your money back. But often it's not quite as black or white as that, but without all the information about the sale and the description of the caravan its difficult to offer succinct advice.

I suggest you look at this information
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange
 
Sep 7, 2015
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Hi profjohn

I have already chased it but as I paid via bank transfer I have been informed it becomes very hard to work with!

I have found the issue! A screw that isn't sealed and just randomly screwed into the van in to of rail.
What kinda idiots does this to a nice van!
 
Apr 20, 2009
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emowbray said:
That's all good and I understand this.
Can you tell me the type of glue used to bond to the aluminium and to the new wall board.
I have everything in order but these item.

I am going to commence the rip out tonight and will take pictures and keep you informed tomorrow.

Hi Eddy, you will have to source a solvent free adhesive other wise the polystyrene will melt, you will stick the polystyrene to the Aluminium sides and the wall board to the polystyrene. I would try to use a liquid type as opposed to the cartridge type as it will make the spreading a lot easier, with the cartridge (Ie Sikaflex or soudal) type it will be too thick unless you spend ages spreading it out.
 
Sep 7, 2015
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Thanks for all the advice guys.

It's taken me all night but I have stripped then entire corner and removed all Rotten and dry rot wood.
I have found a few issues. 1 the person who re-sealed the awning rail was a cowboy and didn't remove the old screws (my guess is that it was an attempt to fix the problem)
I have also found that is the roof to read join that is leaking.
I have uncovered and removed all nastiness from the area and have put a tarp over the rear of the van to stop any further leaking.

Now it's drying out and I will hopefully be able to start rebuilding soon (the weekend fingers crossed)
 
Apr 20, 2009
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emowbray said:
Thanks for all the advice guys.

It's taken me all night but I have stripped then entire corner and removed all Rotten and dry rot wood.
I have found a few issues. 1 the person who re-sealed the awning rail was a cowboy and didn't remove the old screws (my guess is that it was an attempt to fix the problem)
I have also found that is the roof to read join that is leaking.
I have uncovered and removed all nastiness from the area and have put a tarp over the rear of the van to stop any further leaking.

Now it's drying out and I will hopefully be able to start rebuilding soon (the weekend fingers crossed)

There is no way he re-sealed the awning rail...properly..... impossible unless he used the same screws!!!
Dont forget to clean off ALL the old mastic as the new will not stick, scrap off the bulk of it with a plastic scrapper, remove the rest with white spirit, and then clean off with meths, If you look at the link I posted earlier it took me 22 hours to clean off all the mastic!!! If you are to use the same screw holes when you replace the rail, purchase the next size up in stainless.
Would also be wary of putting it back together so quickly, have you any heat or dehumidifier on in the van?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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emowbray said:
Hi profjohn

I have already chased it but as I paid via bank transfer I have been informed it becomes very hard to work with!

I have found the issue! A screw that isn't sealed and just randomly screwed into the van in to of rail.
What kinda idiots does this to a nice van!

The mechanism of payment is in the eyes of SoGA is irrelevant, as the case rests on conformance of the goods to the contract. not on how it was paid for.

Where method of payment can make a difference is if you use a credit facility, and the sum is more than £100, Section 75 of the consumer credit act places a joint responsibility for the conformance to contract on both the seller and the financier.
 
Sep 7, 2015
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hi guys so now i can see how there things are built, and i cant help but think there must be a BETTER WAY.

why do they not put vents in these machines? i mean damp gets in and cant get out as its a sealed unit so unless we re-seal every 3 years or so and receipt it then damp WILL GET IN.

re-sealing does seem easier than i thought, i mean time consuming but easy.

im in two minds, do i reseal and completely sort this van and changer or do i keep it for a while? i think i got a good price for the van as i paid £4500 for it and i think its worth more that that (once fixed)
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi again,

I'm glad you seem to have got to the root cause and extent of the problem.

The annoying thing is the caravan industries history of manufacturing show great variability in the quality of product leaving the production lines. Some caravans remains completely dry for their life whilst the next van off the line can be a damp nightmare. This shows the technology can work, but in practice it has to be down to inadequate quality control during manufacture, and most of the industry is still in denial about this.

It's only in recent years the manufacturers have made investments in new construction techniques designed resist rotting, but the products are still too new to establish if the long term resistance to water ingress has been improved.

Keep or sell? that is quite a dilemma!

I have to assume that you bought the caravan because it suited your needs for space and facilities, you liked it, you thought it was worth it and you could afford it. so if it had been perfectly dry you would have no qualms about keeping it.

Ok, it turned out to be damp. That is always a potential issue with secondhand caravans, in so far that you could buy a caravan that has been dry so far but there is an increasing chance with age that it may become damp sometime in the future.

If a history of damp has been declared, if it has been repaired properly then technically the caravan can be perfectly functional and continue to give as good-a-service as if it had always been dry. But the problem is you can't know the quality of the repair because most of it is hidden from view, which is why in general we suggest don't even consider a caravan with a history of damp issues. This is why the value of caravans with a declared history of damp have severely depressed values.

However in your case you have already made the purchase and subsequently found the problem. You are now in a slightly better place because you will know the quality of the repairs you are carrying out. This in your eyes will make the caravan fully functional again, but in all honesty you cannot hide the history of the damp which means it will be devalued in the eyes of prospective purchasers.

So do you sell for which you will get a depressed price, and then buy another - which might have the same problems all over again, or stick the caravan that you now know quite well, use it for a number of years and get some value out of it.

As an engineer, I know which way I would go, I'd go with caravan I know how has been repaired properly, but it's a personal choice.
 
Sep 7, 2015
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hi there i have found and and ripped out the damp in my caravan nd have found that its the roof to rear rail that is leaking.
the problem is this has rotted wood way for the awning rail.
i am now looking to remove the screws for the awning rail to allow me to fit the new wood. my question is should i or do i need to re-seal the awning rail as i am removing the screws. the seal on the rail seems very good.
i am going to have to re-seal the roof to rear seal to fix the leaking issue i just wasnt sure how it could affect the awning rail
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Emobray,

I have just responded to one of your posts about this subject in another thread in the General section. It really helps every one to keep all related comments together in one thread rather than spreading them around.
 
Feb 3, 2008
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Yes, the Moderator already said this the other day:

Moderator Information for 'emowbray'
I removed your recent post concerning this same issue from a different message board.
Only one topic on the same subject at any one time please, otherwise any helpful or informative replies will be scattered all over the place
Read more at http://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/general/51775-2006-bailey-ranger-damp?start=0#08x6P8jAliDJkH2f.99
 
Sep 2, 2010
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Baileys of this age leak in the corners because of cracks in the abs front and rear panels. The cracks are caused by the factory screwing through the abs without drilling a big enough hole first. The panels crack anywhere along their joints with the sides or the roof. Usually the cracks that cause the most damp are under the ends of the roof strap buried under sealant. You really need to remove the roof strap and awning rails to fully uncover the cracks. Then you could drill crack stop holes at the end of the cracks and fill with sealant. That should keep it dry for a few years.
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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ProfJohnL said:
Hello Emobray,

I have just responded to one of your posts about this subject in another thread in the General section. It really helps every one to keep all related comments together in one thread rather than spreading them around.

WoodlandsCamper said:
Yes, the Moderator already said this the other day:

Moderator Information for 'emowbray'
I removed your recent post concerning this same issue from a different message board.
Only one topic on the same subject at any one time please, otherwise any helpful or informative replies will be scattered all over the place
Read more at http://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/general/51775-2006-bailey-ranger-damp?start=0#08x6P8jAliDJkH2f.99

Moderator note:
I fully understand your anxiety and disappointment upon finding that your recently purchased caravan is affected by water ingress emowbray, and I'm sure that your fellow forum members will be happy to offer advice on the best way to proceed with repairs.
This is the second time that you have opened a separate post on the same subject but on a different message board.
I moved your recent post across to this thread so that the replies which will hopefully contain advice will all be in one place.
Please co-operate by not continuing to begin different threads on different message boards which deal with this same topic, any further replies should be added to this thread.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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glenno said:
Baileys of this age leak in the corners because of cracks in the abs front and rear panels. The cracks are caused by the factory screwing through the abs without drilling a big enough hole first. The panels crack anywhere along their joints with the sides or the roof. Usually the cracks that cause the most damp are under the ends of the roof strap buried under sealant. You really need to remove the roof strap and awning rails to fully uncover the cracks. Then you could drill crack stop holes at the end of the cracks and fill with sealant. That should keep it dry for a few years.

Glenno
That is very true especially the Ranger and Pageants of 2006 vintage . Not all had the problem. My previous Vendee stayed dry yet a friend's had the dreaded ABS panel cracks front and rear. The problem usually manifested itself within 12 months. Bailey under warranty replaced them with new. At that time it was considered possible or was it sensible to try and repair them. I suspect for the reason you state they had to to be replaced. .
By now I am sure Emobray will have ascertained the cause which hopefully is not a cracked panel :)
 

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