A lithium ion battery question

Jun 20, 2005
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Two of my EVs haven’t been used since early November 2022. I haven’t recharged them yet as all the green lights are showing a healthy charge.
Is there any special procedures I should follow to maintain long term battery life even when not in regular use?
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Dusty Dog, on the 4 wheeler Chariot, are the batteries Li-on, on ours they are gel ,non Li-on.
Also the other day, We were traveling to the pub and Mrs H' mobility chariot started to slow right down ,battery lights still full in the green, but max speed about 2mph. So I keep it on charge every other day now.
Li-on batteries on my drones can go months without being charged.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Two of my EVs haven’t been used since early November 2022. I haven’t recharged them yet as all the green lights are showing a healthy charge.
Is there any special procedures I should follow to maintain long term battery life even when not in regular use?
I think you should consult the EV's handbook about long term storage. It's quite likely to be different depending on the models you have.
 
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Dusty Dog, on the 4 wheeler Chariot, are the batteries Li-on, on ours they are gel ,non Li-on.
Also the other day, We were traveling to the pub and Mrs H' mobility chariot started to slow right down ,battery lights still full in the green, but max speed about 2mph. So I keep it on charge every other day now.
Li-on batteries on my drones can go months without being charged.
For some strange reason it seems that lithoum batteries for mobility scooters have a shorter life than usual. If you fully charge the battery and then let it stand for a week the battery is invariable flat and you are lucky if you can recover the battery. Most times it seems to involve a new battery.

If you leave it on charge 24/7 the battery is knackered after a few weeks and will not charge properly. I found this to our expense which is why I am reluctant to buy another mobility scooter.

Not sure why mobility scooter lithium batteries pack in so easily when the lithium batteries in other units can be left for months without being charged?
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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I recall reading somewhere not to keep them on charge, not to store them 100% charged, and not subject to low temperatures. So my domestic ones and cordless vacuum are looked after in line with that advice. But I’m sure someone will now shoot me down. 😂
 
Jun 20, 2005
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I recall reading somewhere not to keep them on charge, not to store them 100% charged, and not subject to low temperatures. So my domestic ones and cordless vacuum are looked after in line with that advice. But I’m sure someone will now shoot me down. 😂
Thank you Clive All I was looking for was a guide as you have offered. I did read not to charge beyond 85% but nothing on leaving in storage
Today the multi meter gives a very good voltage so I assume the cells are all still alive👍
 

JTQ

May 7, 2005
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Whatever Lithium technology is employed in my 2016 vintage E-bike, the manual addresses long term storage, here it should be stored at only 60% charge.
This, 'clives advice and much I have read on the subject all stack up.
Further I work with the other advice, to only use them routinely between charge levels of 80 to 20%, unless the need for a full range ride is immediately imminent.
The battery/bike now seven years on is still working extremely well, so I assume the advice can't be far off "right".
 
Jun 16, 2020
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I think there must be different lithium technologies and therefore different requirements for maintaining.

I have just bought a new hair clipper. This contains a small, but nevertheless lithium battery. Instructions say it can be left permanently on charge if I want. But to allow it to completely discharge about every 6 months.

I do remember, in the early days, there were lots of suggestions along the line that OC uses. But I think that the circuits and technology have come on leaps and bounds.
My battery drills maintain their charge fine, they get little use nowadays and some are about 5 years old.

Buckmans mobility scooter batteries let him down. I hope this is not the norm as I have just ordered a new scooter, this time with lithium. A spare battery is £299, (though I do believe they will do it for £250). Amp for Amp, I think that is about 4 times greater than power tool batteries. Which I find disgraceful.

John
 
Nov 11, 2009
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There are a number of different chemistries used in Lithium Batteries. The three main ones are Lithium Ion (Lion), Lithium Poly (LiPo) and Lithium Iron Sulphate (LiFe). LiFe is a better behaved technology (and less likely to catch fire) than the other two, all are better if you aren't using the device to store charged. The self discharge rate for LiFe's is about 2% per day. Too much discharge and the battery will be damaged Lion and Lipo's are similar, the advice across the piece is about 60-80% of fully charged voltage...
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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I have the handbooks and they are quiet on long term storage, hence picking you guys brains
One of the concern's about EV's that has been raised in various motoring circles was how despite charging the EV's high voltage battery during long term storage, some people have found problems, because the cars 12v system battery had discharged.

I can't tell you if it's the same for all makes and models, but apparently several cases the 12v battery is only recharged when the car is used, just like an ice car.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I have the handbooks and they are quiet on long term storage, hence picking you guys brains
There was no mention in my handbook about charging and storing a lithium battery. Basically all it said was when flat, recharge the battery. The charger is supposed to cut off charging once the lithium battery is charged up.

Our daughter bought one of those rechargeable lawn mowers just before winter started so only used it 2 or 3 times and then parked it up in the garage. Remains to be seen if it will be working okay when they drag it out in the near future. I did warn her about the possibility that there may be issues and it may be best to wait until 2023 before purchasing one.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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There was no mention in my handbook about charging and storing a lithium battery. Basically all it said was when flat, recharge the battery. The charger is supposed to cut off charging once the lithium battery is charged up.

Our daughter bought one of those rechargeable lawn mowers just before winter started so only used it 2 or 3 times and then parked it up in the garage. Remains to be seen if it will be working okay when they drag it out in the near future. I did warn her about the possibility that there may be issues and it may be best to wait until 2023 before purchasing one.
Our daughter has a Spear and Jackson cordless mower which must now be three years old. She used it last week to give a high level trim to the lawn. It lives in the garage so no heating. She charges it after each mowing then switches the charger off. That’s all she does.
 
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Its clear from the answers so far there are multiple approaches to the type of battery, and they best way it needs to be maintained. Simply saying don't stop the charge at for example 85% is not easy to know, as some manufacturers may already fit batteries of excess capacity to maximise battery life.

To optimise your own charging strategy, you need to know if your make or model already utilises and maintains a battery excess to automatically protect the battery. As each make and model is potentially different you cannot uses general information as a surefire solution.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Its clear from the answers so far there are multiple approaches to the type of battery, and they best way it needs to be maintained. Simply saying don't stop the charge at for example 85% is not easy to know, as some manufacturers may already fit batteries of excess capacity to maximise battery life.

To optimise your own charging strategy, you need to know if your make or model already utilises and maintains a battery excess to automatically protect the battery. As each make and model is potentially different you cannot uses general information as a surefire solution.
I’ve got batteries for cordless tools and a Dyson cordless. I cannot recollect any manuals giving advice other than for recycling. Unlike cars none of my chargers apart from Dyson vacuum give any indication of where they are on the charging cycle. There are just a flashing light whilst charging which either goes out or goes to steady illumination. Are they 85% or 100% ? I know not. So I just do what I said in my initial response to Dustys question. And it seems to work for me. My iPhone has a more intelligent approach on its contactless charger, but again it doesn’t stay on for long periods. But it does show percentage charge and battery condition as a percentage of its new performance.
 
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I’ve got batteries for cordless tools and a Dyson cordless. I cannot recollect any manuals giving advice other than for recycling. Unlike cars none of my chargers apart from Dyson vacuum give any indication of where they are on the charging cycle. There are just a flashing light whilst charging which either goes out or goes to steady illumination. Are they 85% or 100% ? I know not. So I just do what I said in my initial response to Dustys question. And it seems to work for me. My iPhone has a more intelligent approach on its contactless charger, but again it doesn’t stay on for long periods. But it does show percentage charge and battery condition as a percentage of its new performance.
Precisely my point, though the OP's question was about EV's rather than hand tools and I suspect and hope the EV manufacturer does whatever is necessary to prevent their chargers from damaging the vehicle battery under all conditions.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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I was thinking Prof about the days of Ni Cads where incorrect use and charging could result in memory phasing resulting in poor performance . Hand tool wise two Makita hand tools Li perform well now even though not charged since November last. I’ll try the bike tomorrow and see how that performs
 
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I’ve got batteries for cordless tools and a Dyson cordless. I cannot recollect any manuals giving advice other than for recycling. Unlike cars none of my chargers apart from Dyson vacuum give any indication of where they are on the charging cycle. There are just a flashing light whilst charging which either goes out or goes to steady illumination. Are they 85% or 100% ? I know not. So I just do what I said in my initial response to Dustys question. And it seems to work for me. My iPhone has a more intelligent approach on its contactless charger, but again it doesn’t stay on for long periods. But it does show percentage charge and battery condition as a percentage of its new performance.
It’s actually very hard for a charger to “know” the state of charge of a lithium battery it‘s charging with any accuracy. The voltage across the terminals doesn’t change very much over much of the charge/discharge cycle, Charging the thing to 100 percent is the only real way to establish a known state of charge. Systems can track discharge by monitoring the discharge current over time so once charged to 100 pc a reasonable state is of discharge prediction is possible in such intelligent systems. If the battery is never charged to 100 pc overall discharge logging gets less and less accurate with time as errors compound. Hence I occasionally charge the caravans li ions to 100 pc (at a time when I can use them to take that high voltage top off down ASAP) . Using a Victron battery monitor the charge state display becomes inaccurate over months if you don’t do this. But I don’t leave them at high charge states any more than I have to, time at max voltage ages Li cells,

Steve
 
Nov 11, 2009
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When our Rio went in for a minor rear end repair the Repair Center had an area marked "EV quarantine area " where any incoming car EV, be it PHEV, or BEV would be taken. It was adjacent to the entry gates, and well separated from the normal accident damaged cars.
 
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Any car not just BEV's involved in an accident has a greater potential to burst into flames, and those that do are invariably written off.

Whilst BEV's burn differently compared to Dino juice vehicles it's a question of how to deal with the fire rather than its propensity to burst into flames.
 
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However didn't the normal everyday Ford Kuga also have a problem with it bursting into flames? I am sure I have read of other brands of cars bursting into flames due to issues not related to the driver or mechanics.

I can't believe I am defending EVs. I need to go see the doctor on Tuesday. :D
 
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However didn't the normal everyday Ford Kuga also have a problem with it bursting into flames? I am sure I have read of other brands of cars bursting into flames due to issues not related to the driver or mechanics.

I can't believe I am defending EVs. I need to go see the doctor on Tuesday. :D
Vauxhall Zafiras we’re a major concern and even the first recall wasn’t 100% successful.
 

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