Advice Mazda CX5 Tow Car with a Sterling Eccles

Mar 2, 2018
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Hi all
First post so please be gentle. My issue is this. I own a Mazda CX5 2014 AWD 175bhp. The kerb weight according to web is 1530kgs. We have put a deposit down on our first caravan a Sterling Eccles Opal 2009 MTPLM1500 kg. Complete with motor mover and aircon! (I mention MM and aircon as i guess they come into the weight equation)
The caravan dealer said the Mazda should be fine even though it exceeds the 85% guidance. Having never towed before I booked onto the caravan club two day towing course.

However, the more I read the more concerned I'm becoming that my caravan will be unstable given my cars weight. Seasoned caravan owners I talk to load the car heavy, buy a roof box all to increase the weight of the car. On these forums I have read that this appears ill advised.

I would appreciate some advice. I dont want to change the car having just bought it last year. However I can change the caravan if I need to. Depending on the valued advice from this forum. I would rather lose the deposit than buy the wrong caravan for my car!
 
Nov 11, 2009
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The air on and mover are to be included in your MTPLM so will reduce your total payload but don’t affect the basic equation.

I’m puzzled re your comment about loading the car being contrary to what posters on this forum say. In my experience trying to maximise the cars load is my preferred option providing you don’t overlaid the car beyond it’s Gross Vehicle Weight.

There are members here who tow with the CX5 so they are best placed to advise on Car specifics. And they are well regarded as tow cars and solo drives. But there is a general guide of keeping the caravan MTPLM to around 85% if cars kerbweight. Experienced towers do go higher. So as a new comer your outfit and experience wouldn’t conform to the guidance. You could move things around by loading the car and minising caravan weight. You don’t say what the caravans MRO is. But there will be somethings that are pretty will fixed for the van such as mover, air con, battery, gas bottles etc. So there are limits as to how light you could make the caravan.
But it’s good that you are down to do the course as they are so very useful.

Nothing is impossible but I guess that in order to gain experience and safely enjoy your new hobby I would say see if you can get the dealer to offer a lighter caravan.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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AnastieByte said:
Hi all
First post so please be gentle. My issue is this. I own a Mazda CX5 2014 AWD 175bhp. The kerb weight according to web is 1530kgs. We have put a deposit down on our first caravan a Sterling Eccles Opal 2009 MTPLM1500 kg. Complete with motor mover and aircon! (I mention MM and aircon as i guess they come into the weight equation)
The caravan dealer said the Mazda should be fine even though it exceeds the 85% guidance. Having never towed before I booked onto the caravan club two day towing course.

However, the more I read the more concerned I'm becoming that my caravan will be unstable given my cars weight. Seasoned caravan owners I talk to load the car heavy, buy a roof box all to increase the weight of the car. On these forums I have read that this appears ill advised.

I would appreciate some advice. I dont want to change the car having just bought it last year. However I can change the caravan if I need to. Depending on the valued advice from this forum. I would rather lose the deposit than buy the wrong caravan for my car!

Hello AB,

Weight alone is not going to cause instability. Instability or more accurately loss of control, is brought about when one or more contributory factors exceeds the driver's ability to control the situation.

Good towing is achieved by managing a number of key factors, and arguably loading and weight distribution in the trailer has a greater impact than just the all up weight ratio.

Proper vehicle and trailer maintenance, including tyre pressures. These re all things that you should get right before you set off. When under way, being aware of the size of the outfit and the space it needs and the time it takes to complete a manoeuvre. Being aware of the effect of road and weather conditions, and other traffic, and especially those idiots who will try and cut you up, just becasue you are towing a caravan.

The limitations of the agility of the outfit all need to be factored in by the driver, who is also responsible to braking accelerating and probably the biggest single factor involved with loss of control - Speed, keep it down, especially when going down hill.

There! I've probably frightened you off now, but don't despair. There is always a learning curve, and most drivers find they can adapt quite quickly, so its not the latest Alton Towers white knuckle ride I made out.

Happy Caravanning
 
Nov 16, 2015
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We have always loaded the car up with equipment ( BBQ, Awning, Coolbox, dogs etc) to get the weight up, rather than load the caravan, get the vans ( dreaded) noseweight, as high as your tow bar will allow, I am not a great fan of Top boxes as they can raise your center of gravity, but if filled, with light, bulky things then, they can save space in the caravan. Just don't overload your car.
 
Jun 26, 2017
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Anastie, I was in a very similar situation to yours when we bought our first van, brand new, around this time last year. In fact our figures of car kerbweight and caravan MTMPL almost match yours exactly, give or take a couple of kilo’s ...

After confidently ordering the van, the seemingly endless “85 %” references actually caused me to cancel my order for the new caravan. However, I reconsidered shortly after, re-ordered, and have never looked back.

As others have said, just be mindful with regards to Ioading ...

Hope this helps,

Ic.
 
Mar 2, 2018
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Thanks for sharing. Last night we were close to cancelling and changing the caravan. We have since decided to keep things as they are until I complete the towing course with the caravan club.
I’m a confident driver but the 85% bit was throwing me. I’m pretty sure we will stick to the original plan of buying the Eccles.
 
Feb 23, 2018
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Perhaps more important than the 85% guideline is the legal requirement of the maximum gross train weight of 3500kg for post 1997 licence holders. If you hold a pre-'97 licence you'll have the B+E entitlement and can ignore this reply ☺.

With a post January 97 licence, Providing the caravan MTPLM and the Gross weight (not kerb weight) of the car do not exceed 3500kg you are ok. If they do, you would need to complete another DVSA test to gain the B+E entitlement.
 
May 7, 2012
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I would want to know where you got the kerb weight from as this can be quoted both with and without the driver and I think yours looks as though it is without. If you check the registration document you will get a base weight without the driver and you can then add 75 kg to that which might give you a better ratio but the drivers weight is added into the 85% figure.
As the Prof says, weight is not the only thing to take into account, although the better the ratio the better it is for towing. The Mazda is regarded as one of the best tow cars in its class, and I suspect you have a decent combination there. My worry would be that with the mover and the air con you have not a lot of loading allowance left and I would be tempted to take the caravan unladen to a weighbridge to check what it weighs so you know where you stand. With many caravans you can have it uprated to a higher MTPLM but given the towcar this does not look like an option for you now, but if in the future you change the car it might be.
We are on our third Mazda and I have always found them able towcars.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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I owned a 2013 CX-5 175ps AWD Sport nav manual, its weight is 1663kg.
You won't find an accurate kerb weight on the net, in fact the ONLY site I found that's accurate for my present car was the CCC matching site.

And forget looking at the Mass in service on your V5c, its been way out for both cars, something like 1490kg from memory.

Someone with the exact model as my 2013 car weighed his with him inside at 1720kg. Mine would have been higher as I have a 27kg full size spare in the wheel well.

As for your proposed caravan the CX-5 will pull that with out trying, I pulled a Brick faced Unicorn for two years with a MTPLM of 1656kg.

I should add that the CX-5 has a nose weight limit of 88kg, but due to a short rear overhang it will carry this easily, provided you are not overloading the rear axle limit.
 
Mar 2, 2018
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xtrailman said:
I owned a 2013 CX-5 175ps AWD Sport nav manual, its weight is 1663kg.
You won't find an accurate kerb weight on the net, in fact the ONLY site I found that's accurate for my present car was the CCC matching site.

And forget looking at the Mass in service on your V5c, its been way out for both cars, something like 1490kg from memory.

Someone with the exact model as my 2013 car weighed his with him inside at 1720kg. Mine would have been higher as I have a 27kg full size spare in the wheel well.

As for your proposed caravan the CX-5 will pull that with out trying, I pulled a Brick faced Unicorn for two years with a MTPLM of 1656kg.

I should add that the CX-5 has a nose weight limit of 88kg, but due to a short rear overhang it will carry this easily, provided you are not overloading the rear axle limit.

Thanks for sharing your experience. witht he cx5 and its towing ability. Very encouraging
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Essentially the only reason for wanting to have an accurate Kerbweight or Mass In service is to calculate the towing ratio, or if you have a post 1997 licence is to comply with teh limitation of the towed weight not exceeding the unladen weight of the tow vehicle.

As has been discussed the towing ratio is far from an exact figure, and the industry 85% ratio is only a guidance.

The figures you must take account of are the tow vehicles specification limits and the trailers MTPLM which do have legal effect.

Tow ball load or nose load is also a legal limit and is also mechanically important as exceeding the static limit could result in damage.
 
Mar 2, 2018
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Following your advice I went to a public weighbridge and with just me in the car and half a tank of fuel the car weighed 1740kg. This puts me in a very comfortable position towing the caravan.
Thank you for all the advice and guidance with this. Look out for me on the rest of the forum as ill have loads of newbie questions if I cant find the answer using the search function!
 
Dec 9, 2009
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I tow a Coachman Pastiche 545(MTPLM 1546Kg) with a Mazda CX5 175hp awd auto. Brilliant tow car. In 40+ years of towing it's the best vehicle I've ever had for the job. Keeping the nose weight down I've found to be no problem.
Enjoy your outfit!!

Mike
 
Mar 10, 2006
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I have the same car and totally agree. :)

Mike_S said:
I tow a Coachman Pastiche 545(MTPLM 1546Kg) with a Mazda CX5 175hp awd auto. Brilliant tow car. In 40+ years of towing it's the best vehicle I've ever had for the job. Keeping the nose weight down I've found to be no problem.
Enjoy your outfit!!

Mike
 
Mar 13, 2018
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I would recommend you to try tow truck nyc once. Trust me i loved it. it is peaceful and comfortable. You don't have to get worried about anything. The staff working is really helpful and can make all your worries walk away
 
Nov 16, 2015
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carlm21 said:
I would recommend you to try tow truck nyc once. Trust me i loved it. it is peaceful and comfortable. You don't have to get worried about anything. The staff working is really helpful and can make all your worries walk away

Looks like A fishing spammer.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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carlm21 said:
why would you say thiss?

It would be helpful if when posting you make it clear what or which post you are commenting on, otherwise one liners are of little use and are liable to seen as spam.
 
Dec 6, 2013
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Hi AnastieByte
The thing to remember is that the kerb weight is, to all intents and purposes the weight your car would be when completely empty apart from the driver. As you have established yourself, this is unrealistic in real life although you won't really know accurately the amount of extra weight inside the car at any given time.

Conversely, the MTPLM of your caravan is its maximum permissible weight. In reality it won't always weigh this much, but again, short of weighing it each time you take it out, you won't be able to establish precisely how much less.

In my humble opinion, it's therefore sensible to limit the MTPLM of the caravan to less than the kerb weight of the towing vehicle. But how much less? As far as I can tell, the ratio of 85% was selected arbitrarily some decades ago, before car manufacturers specified their own maximum towing limits. It remains as a recommendation simply because nobody has done enough testing with caravans (as opposed to other types of trailer) to come up with anything better.

The two main caravan clubs also recommend that 'experienced' towers can tow a caravan weighing up to 100% of the car's kerb weight. Define 'experienced'? I don't think anyone else has. It's all subjective.

I think you're being very sensible in the way you're approaching this. Doing the towing course can only be a good thing. My suggestion after that is to go for a few weekends away, when you won't need to load the caravan to its capacity, and get used to how it handles. Don't assume that less weight will automatically equal greater stability - in our experience our caravan is more stable on the road if it has some weight in it than it is unladen. Once you've gained a bit more confidence with your own combination, you can safely load it more heavily for longer trips.

Good luck and enjoy :)
 
Nov 16, 2015
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ProfJohnL said:
carlm21 said:
why would you say thiss?

It would be helpful if when posting you make it clear what or which post you are commenting on, otherwise one liners are of little use and are liable to seen as spam.

Prof, this person has been adding to several posting today, making less sense that Myself, I have reported it to the mods.
 

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