ALKO ATC did good

[davyayr]

Just back from a lovely few days at Tantallon Caravan Park, North Berwick.
Event free until the last leg coming down M77. On inside lane, south of the Newton Mearns interchange. Travelling about 50-55 mph.
Got passed by a Transit pickup, who pulled in maybe a hit early, but nothing dramatic.
Short distance on and a 12ft 6" x 2" flew off the back straight towards us.
Braked heavily and swerved to hard shoulder. Didn't fancy it coming through the window.
COMPLETELY forgot I had a 1500kg caravan on the back until I remembered.
Actually wasn't that hard to control the tail happy sway, thanks to having the ALKO ATC system fitted. Never been so happy to have a "driver" aid fitted to a caravan. It really does work.
Must have for us.

 

[Mr Plodd]

Exactly, no-one ever knows if (when?) ATC will be required.
I for one woukd never consider a caravan without ATC.

 

[Hutch]

Yes a fantastic bit of kit when you really need it.

 

[Mel]

Yes a fantastic bit of kit when you really need it.

Coupled with fantastic fast reaction and evasive driving. Well done and glad injury was averted.

 

[Dustydog]

Exactly, no-one ever knows if (when?) ATC will be required.
I for one woukd never consider a caravan without ATC.

Totally agree. Could have been brown trousers for Davyayr.
Shame the NCC don’t make it mandatory for their member manufacturers to fit ATC on all caravans.

 

[caravan john]

Just back from a lovely few days at Tantallon Caravan Park, North Berwick.
Event free until the last leg coming down M77. On inside lane, south of the Newton Mearns interchange. Travelling about 50-55 mph.
Got passed by a Transit pickup, who pulled in maybe a hit early, but nothing dramatic.
Short distance on and a 12ft 6" x 2" flew off the back straight towards us.
Braked heavily and swerved to hard shoulder. Didn't fancy it coming through the window.
COMPLETELY forgot I had a 1500kg caravan on the back until I remembered.
Actually wasn't that hard to control the tail happy sway, thanks to having the ALKO ATC system fitted. Never been so happy to have a "driver" aid fitted to a caravan. It really does work.
Must have for us.

Caught high kerb once swerving to avoid debris I also worked a treat for me
Regards john

 

[Milkfloat]

Totally agree. Could have been brown trousers for Davyayr.
Shame the NCC don’t make it mandatory for their member manufacturers to fit ATC on all caravans.

Do they all need it? I have a very long draw bar on my Adria, no ATC fitted and never had a sniff of instability or heard of other owners having an issue.

 

[Lutz]

Do they all need it? I have a very long draw bar on my Adria, no ATC fitted and never had a sniff of instability or heard of other owners having an issue.

The OP was referring to exceptional circumstances taking emergency avoiding action. In a case like that a long draw bar is not going to help you.

 

[JTQ]

Do they all need it? I have a very long draw bar on my Adria, no ATC fitted and never had a sniff of instability or heard of other owners having an issue.

If like the OP, and myself, you were ever "forced" into a violent, collision avoiding action, amounting to an "Elk Test", you would I am confident then have a quite different take.
Good as passive design features might be in aiding stability, the active stabilising of AL-KO's ATC [and other brands] raise the stability control to another level.

 

[Dustydog]

Do they all need it? I have a very long draw bar on my Adria, no ATC fitted and never had a sniff of instability or heard of other owners having an issue.

Why decry anything that may be a life saver as a last resort?

Our cars come with a host of safety features ,ABS , ESP , ACC. or do you rely on cadence braking ?or no power steering or servo assisted brakes🤔

But it is true if the caravan is correctly loaded , which we all do , the chance of a snake is minimal. However none of us can legislate for what happened to the OP. That is why ATC is well worth having.

 

[Milkfloat]

The OP was referring to exceptional circumstances taking emergency avoiding action. In a case like that a long draw bar is not going to help you.

Not at all? Why not? The long drawbar has inherent stability advantages over a short drawbar, is there any evidence that the long drawbar is not 'good enough' in these situations?

 

[Milkfloat]

Why decry anything that may be a life saver as a last resort?

Our cars come with a host of safety features ,ABS , ESP , ACC. or do you rely on cadence braking ?or no power steering or servo assisted brakes🤔

But it is true if the caravan is correctly loaded , which we all do , the chance of a snake is minimal. However none of us can legislate for what happened to the OP. That is why ATC is well worth having.

I am decrying nothing, I am merely asking if a long drawbar is suitable mitigation for these circumstances. Adria seem to think so.

 

[RogerL]

Not at all? Why not? The long drawbar has inherent stability advantages over a short drawbar, is there any evidence that the long drawbar is not 'good enough' in these situations?

The real measure is the distance from hitch to axle - the difference between Adria and conventional British caravans is measureable but small - so a small advantage in stability but nothing major.

 

[Lutz]

A long A-frame is no doubt of benefit regarding stability, but it does have its limits to what it can achieve and it certainly wouldn’t prevent the worst from happening in a situation as critical as described by the OP. I have seen a video of an outfit performing an “Elk test” with ATC switched on and again the same outfit under otherwise identical conditions but with ATC switched off and the latter was quite frightening to watch.

 

[Gafferbill]

....my caravan insurance with CAMC stipulates that the fitted ATC must be working when towing.
Insurers are likely well placed to judge the effectiveness of a piece of kit from statistics.
I personally recognise that ATC is vulnerable to incorrect or faulty towbar electrics so important to carry out it's self test procedure when hitching up.

 

[JTQ]

I am decrying nothing, I am merely asking if a long drawbar is suitable mitigation for these circumstances. Adria seem to think so.

Where have Adria implied to you that their designs can cope with the circumstances outlined by the OP, that gives grounds for your claim?

They in company with other van makers design products safe to tow, in "normal" road conditions, I am not aware any claim their products built without any active dynamic control system, are certified for any level of "Elk testing".
Undoubtedly IMO and my experience some van designs are inherently better stability wise even with the same tow vehicle, but all are only stable within a confined envelope of towing conditions. Going outside that stable envelope, go too fast, manoeuvre too quickly and instability is assured.

To answer your question, only trying to replicate the OP's variant of an Elk test with your unit will provide that info. Whatever you do don't as the outcome could and is likely to be serious.

IMO, with AL-KO's ATC the chance are massively improved, over the chances without it. One includes active intervention the other simply relies on the van's inherent stability. The two together being the best marriage.

 

[Milkfloat]

Where have Adria implied to you that their designs can cope with the circumstances outlined by the OP, that gives grounds for your claim?

They in company with other van makers design products safe to tow, in "normal" road conditions, I am not aware any claim their products built without any active dynamic control system, are certified for any level of "Elk testing".
Undoubtedly IMO and my experience some van designs are inherently better stability wise even with the same tow vehicle, but all are only stable within a confined envelope of towing conditions. Going outside that stable envelope, go too fast, manoeuvre too quickly and instability is assured.

To answer your question, only trying to replicate the OP's variant of an Elk test with your unit will provide that info. Whatever you do don't as the outcome could and is likely to be serious.

IMO, with AL-KO's ATC the chance are massively improved, over the chances without it. One includes active intervention the other simply relies on the van's inherent stability. The two together being the best marriage.

The implication is that Adria prefer a long drawbar over fitting ATC in the majority of their products. I am not saying that ATC is of no use, but certainly some manufacturers feel that it is not always necessary and we don't see scores of those vans on their sides.

 

[JTQ]

The implication is that Adria prefer a long drawbar over fitting ATC in the majority of their products.

As a very competent van builder I very much doubt they even think of them being "alternatives", as clearly they are not.

 

[Lutz]

The implication is that Adria prefer a long drawbar over fitting ATC in the majority of their products. I am not saying that ATC is of no use, but certainly some manufacturers feel that it is not always necessary and we don't see scores of those vans on their sides.

It is typical of Continental manufacturers to offer just a basic caravan to which a wide choice of factory fitted options can be added. Often their price lists cover several pages. Adria are no different although their UK distributor may specify a limited selection of options that they feel essential for the UK market.
The length of the drawbar is hardly open to being specified as an option. A long drawbar is unlikely to be chosen by the manufacturer on grounds of stability, but more to enable a bicycle rack to be fitted at that location.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The implication is that Adria prefer a long drawbar over fitting ATC in the majority of their products. I am not saying that ATC is of no use, but certainly some manufacturers feel that it is not always necessary and we don't see scores of those vans on their sides.

No trailer is roadworthy if it will be unstable without the use of ATC or any other active stabilisation system.

 

[trevormonty]

It is typical of Continental manufacturers to offer just a basic caravan to which a wide choice of factory fitted options can be added. Often their price lists cover several pages. Adria are no different although their UK distributor may specify a limited selection of options that they feel essential for the UK market.
The length of the drawbar is hardly open to being specified as an option. A long drawbar is unlikely to be chosen by the manufacturer on grounds of stability, but more to enable a bicycle rack to be fitted at that location.

I think bike rack is reason fo long drawbar. Which is why we bought Adria.

 

[Mel]

I think bike rack is reason fo long drawbar. Which is why we bought Adria.

I thought the long drawbar was because Adria use a single axle on body lengths on which UK manufactures put a twin axle? Could easily be wrong.

As far as stability goes, I am no engineer, but as far as I understand, achieving caravan stability is multi factorial. So measures to maximise it should be listed using “and” not “or”. That is, suitable drawbar and ATC and good loading and suitable tow car and good driving and….

Mel

 

[Lutz]

I thought the long drawbar was because Adria use a single axle on body lengths on which UK manufactures put a twin axle? Could easily be wrong.

I don't see any connection between the length of a drawbar and whether a caravan has one or two axles.

 

[Mel]

I don't see any connection between the length of a drawbar and whether a caravan has one or two axles.

As I said, I am not an engineer and so would have no idea as to the reason; it is merely what I heard on other sites as to why Adria use one axle where other manufacturers use two.
Mel

 

[Lutz]

As I said, I am not an engineer and so would have no idea as to the reason; it is merely what I heard on other sites as to why Adria use one axle where other manufacturers use two.
Mel

Here again, it's not an Adria thing to favour a single axle. I don't know of any Continental manufacturer that produces a twin axle caravan under 1900kg. There is a general aversion against twin axles over on the other side of the Channel so two axles are only fitted when there's no other option.