Reading an article on winter camping in the magazine, it says that there may be 32 amps at the post, but if four vans are plugged in, there's only 8amps each available, Is this right? I'm no electrical expert, but if you've only 8 amps when it's usually advertised as a 16amp EHU, it makes a difference to equipment usage.
Amperage?
- Thread starter Red_Mick
- Start date
The standard connection that caravanners use in the UK is rated at 230 volts 16 amps and known as a 16A hookup. That doesn't mean that a site is "advertising" that 16 amps at every outlet is available at full load conditions - no different to your house where your multiple 13 amp sockets are limited by the 30 amp ring main.
In practice, we have no problem with a 10 amp supply in summer or winter - in summer we can/do cope with 5 amps at one particularly scenic site simply by using kettle, hot water and microwave one at a time.
In practice, we have no problem with a 10 amp supply in summer or winter - in summer we can/do cope with 5 amps at one particularly scenic site simply by using kettle, hot water and microwave one at a time.
I noted some 'vans at the show this yesterday, with 3KW heating, if that is on full, isn't that 12amps? Even 2KW is 8amps so if you're fridge is running, plus lights, water pump, heater fan, how would one cope if there's only 8amps available, would the supply just trip out at 8amps, if others are plugged in to the post?
Forgive a newbie's ignorance
Forgive a newbie's ignorance
The bollard would trip out if the total demand exceeded 32 amps, in your example - then all 4 sets of caravanners would point the finger at the other 3 for excessive use!
The number of winter days when site bollards are fully utilised is low, so not worth the capital expense of upgrade which would be added to site fees, already high enough.
My current caravan has 3kw heating, but it's predecessor was only 2kw and that coped with -15o C outside so I never expect to use the 3kw setting.
The number of winter days when site bollards are fully utilised is low, so not worth the capital expense of upgrade which would be added to site fees, already high enough.
My current caravan has 3kw heating, but it's predecessor was only 2kw and that coped with -15o C outside so I never expect to use the 3kw setting.
.......you have to taylor your usage to what is available on the site you are staying on.
If you want a full 16 amp supply only book sites that have a set up that provides you with this.
If you want a full 16 amp supply only book sites that have a set up that provides you with this.
I'm not sure what's being suggested here? if you have two 16A suppplies on a post and use a pair of splitters to supply four vans, then yes each has 8A in theory, but, each van of the pair can use what the other is not at any given moment. It's not great but with care it can work reasonably well if each pair understand each needs, ie your friends?....although that might change!
But, if you have a hookup post with four 16A breaker sockets, then the supply cable will be suitable to carry the maxium amperage of 64A and then some. Beyond the breakers though there is an earth leakage device, (RCD), with a likely ultimate maximum of 80A.
So given all four are in use then each will have 16A on tap at 2xx volts. Where the real problem arises is with the 2xx volts and what the actual voltage is, not amperage though, that is a constant at the available voltage.
What this all means is simple, a full 2kw kettle at the UK norm of 240v will boil in say 2 minutes, if though due to a really heavy overall site load, the voltage drops to 220v, then the water will take a little while longer to boil, say another 15 seconds. In other words, the element is not capable at 220v of getting quite so hot as when on 240v.
Everything else, as far as the user is concerned, remains the same
But, if you have a hookup post with four 16A breaker sockets, then the supply cable will be suitable to carry the maxium amperage of 64A and then some. Beyond the breakers though there is an earth leakage device, (RCD), with a likely ultimate maximum of 80A.
So given all four are in use then each will have 16A on tap at 2xx volts. Where the real problem arises is with the 2xx volts and what the actual voltage is, not amperage though, that is a constant at the available voltage.
What this all means is simple, a full 2kw kettle at the UK norm of 240v will boil in say 2 minutes, if though due to a really heavy overall site load, the voltage drops to 220v, then the water will take a little while longer to boil, say another 15 seconds. In other words, the element is not capable at 220v of getting quite so hot as when on 240v.
Everything else, as far as the user is concerned, remains the same
gary said:
I am far from confident that a fourway bollard is going to be sized to carry simultaneously all 4 users pulling the maximum load "and then some". It's a long time since I did any power distribution systems but these were always based on probability and loading factors otherwise the system could be grossly more expensive to install than it needs to be. Issues also arise on the adequacy of the utility supply , it is very unlikely to be such that all outlets can be at maximum load simultaneously. Not least would be the "unit of power" charge levels the utility would charge for a supply of that capability.
Power correction factoring is indeed applied, but that's all done, what concerns the op is how this all affects him in use
So it all boils down to user experience and that is purly voltage drop, nothing to do with what has been applied before to ensure the post safely delivers the stated supply.
In truth though the cable will supply the total, however the power correction factor applied assumes among other things and including a suitable isolator at the source to protect the cable, a maximum time period for this to occur before reducing to expected 'average' use.
Again then reality is what matters and having now read Doug King's piece, he said amperage but I can see where he's coming from, ie, in winter you may experience more voltage drop so less out of your apliances than your used too in summer, maybe he thought the term 'amperage drop' as more understandable for the layman?
So it all boils down to user experience and that is purly voltage drop, nothing to do with what has been applied before to ensure the post safely delivers the stated supply.
In truth though the cable will supply the total, however the power correction factor applied assumes among other things and including a suitable isolator at the source to protect the cable, a maximum time period for this to occur before reducing to expected 'average' use.
Again then reality is what matters and having now read Doug King's piece, he said amperage but I can see where he's coming from, ie, in winter you may experience more voltage drop so less out of your apliances than your used too in summer, maybe he thought the term 'amperage drop' as more understandable for the layman?
I think that the OP is just concerned that if everyone has everything on together then the bollard may not be adequate. But in reality this is unlikley as others have said in some of the vans the heating elemenst will be on, whilst in others the thermostat will have cut them out and only the fan will run. Does he need hot water to be heated all of the time, I doubt it. We switch the water heater on first thing on getting up. After washing up and washes its switched off until evening washing up. We sometimes switch off the electric heating or drop it down to 500w/1000w if the kettle is going on with lights and TV etc. Does he need all of the lights on? I have never had a problem on a 16 amp supply and even recently we were on a 10 amp supply but caused no issues. Its really not difficult to manage and economise on electric, just needs alittle thought and practice.
Thanks for all your posts, not that I understand half of them
I was just commenting on the article, perhaps the author could have expressed the issue differently.
I was just commenting on the article, perhaps the author could have expressed the issue differently.
Trying to explain the finer points, when you buy an appliance, say a kettle, the load taken is dependant on the resistance of the element. So a 2Kw kettle would have a current rating (not called amperage by the pedantic) of about 2000w/230v - 8.7A Resistance is Volts/ amps, ie 230/ 8.7 - 26ohms. The current taken will be the supply voltage at the socket outlet / 26A. As said, volt drop from 230 volts will depend on the cable length, conductor size, ambient temperature and the actual current carried at that time. There is almost always an allowance for the fact that not all appliances, (or pitches) are in use at one time, the term used is Diversity. As the voltage drops the resistance is constant, the current falls, and less current means less heat, which is the point made earlier. Power factor,also mentioned earlier, is only present in inductive circuits (sorry for confusion, kettles no, Compressor fridges yes otherwise no etc so irrelevant to us) and results in a higher current than calculated by these equations, especially if harmonice are involved. So, why not just keep it simple, use power as responsibly as possible and enjoy your caranning.
After reading some of the replies I've come to the conclusion some people don't know what they are talking about. -
Lets get something straight - The rating of the caravan hookup plug and socket on the bollard is 16 amps.This does not mean that the power supply is rated for 16 amps,It means that the maximum current the plug/socket can carry is 16 amps.
What determines the amount of current that can be taken from the supply is the rating of the circuit breaker supplying the socket on the bollard,this can be any rating up to 16 amps.
By the way the term "power Factor" being used in a previous post is incorrect,the correct term is "diversity factor"
Lets get something straight - The rating of the caravan hookup plug and socket on the bollard is 16 amps.This does not mean that the power supply is rated for 16 amps,It means that the maximum current the plug/socket can carry is 16 amps.
What determines the amount of current that can be taken from the supply is the rating of the circuit breaker supplying the socket on the bollard,this can be any rating up to 16 amps.
By the way the term "power Factor" being used in a previous post is incorrect,the correct term is "diversity factor"
The reference to "power factor" was inferred in an earlier post. Applies to all ac circuits, ie those from an EHU which will invariably have an inductive element, beit lagging or leading. Still with me. Or did I teach the wrong things at college? Diversity is another animal entirely and fuse ratings at the EHU are chosen to protect the cable systems, not the appliances. I tried to explain the difference between the EHU rating and what you might extract from it.
Bryan The Snail,
My post was not directed to you but an earlier posting talking about "power correction factoring" which was being confused with "diversity factor".
Do you understand now.
My post was not directed to you but an earlier posting talking about "power correction factoring" which was being confused with "diversity factor".
Do you understand now.
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