angry- you bet. my vans been damaged in storage

[Philspadders]

Collected my new Charismas 565 from storage yesterday , went to Sherwood Forest only to find the awning rail on the fron near side has been bent back and forwards, the side window is scratched and cracked and lower front near side panel has been pushed in.

I also have concerns that the front panel seal has been damaged.

This damage has occured in the last 6 days and will cost lots to put right. I am taking the family away for 2 weeks in 2 weeks and now can not use the awning.

The storage facility have denied all liability and have contacted the owner of the van on the next pitch. The elderly gentleman had apparantly sold his very new sprite, one on the 3rd July, yet it was there last weekend but was not there yesterday.

He will not tell storage where and to whom he sold it.(The only way this damage could occur is for his van to have hit mine.

His van was never parked up sq and was always at an angle and badly parked so i think he has hit mine while pulling out.

Storsge have refused to pass me his details .

So , If Mr Neal (sp) frequents this site, all you had to was leave a note expressing your concern and an apology and we could have sorted this out.

Now , i will have to spend more time and money tracking you down. I will probably have to take the storage to court to get your details released. I will make an insurance claim but i stand to lose a lot of money due to you... you want to hope i dont meet you.... i am not a violent man but right know i want to be.

mt wife is in tears, thanks a lot .

 

[mcghee]

i used to keep my 'van in storage so it didn't get damaged at home by kids bikes etc. bizarrely the one and only time it was damaged was in storage when a branch blew off a tree and broke the back window. its in storage no longer.

i find it hard to believe that your storage facility can charge you however many pounds a year and then step back when your 'vans in their care.

i would also think the site owner would be legally bound to give the name of the probable responsible party, if not to you at least to the local constabulary. however you look at it an illegal act has been committed.

 

[Robtel]

Sorry to hear about the damage to your van. I'm assuming you have, or are intending to notify your insurance company? That being the case can they not bring any pressure to bear on the storage company to divulge the other person's details. I think that if they were to say that in the absence of any other known person they were going to hold the storage company's insurer liable then that insurer is likely to tell the storage owner to cough up the details pdq.

Worth a try?

Good luck with whatever route you go down. To me the most annoying bit would be the fact that another caravanner had caused the damege but had not had the decency to contact you via the storage company and own up.

Robert

 

[Robtel]

A thought just occurred to me after I had submitted my previous post. Not a cheerful one either. Will the fact that you did not discover the damage prior to taking your van off the storage site not go against you? It might be alleged that you did the damage yourself whilst on route to Sherwood. I know that damage found to the other's person's caravan would help substantiate your claim but would it be enough to prove he caused the damage to you?

 

[Dustydog]

Did you have a written signed contract with the storage owners / operators?

Can you prove beyond all reasonable doubt the damage occurred in storage rather than elsewhere?

In the long run it may be easier for you, and less painful , to let your caravan Insurers handle the whole affair. I appreciate you may a policy excess but hopefully the Insurers will try and recover that too from whomsoever was responsible.

As you have indicated yourself unless you can prove with demonstrable evidence who did it you can't go past go.

B****y annoying.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[mcghee]

just a thought. does your storage site have cctv? i know mine did.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Philspadders,

Given the circumstances you have related in your post, I have to agree with Dustydog. as you did not report the damage to the site owners before you removed the caravan, there is no way you can conclusively prove the damage was caused at the storage site.

But assuming your description is what did happen, then subject to the following assumptions I think storage sites do have a liability for the care and protection of their customers property.

I assume the site is fully fenced or designed to prevent the general public from having unhindered access to the site. Access is therefore only granted to persons who have been given permission to enter by the site owner or their employee or agent. This permission may be effectively granted by issuing of a pass key/card, or by having a guarded gate. This is important because if access to the site is controlled by the site owner, they are are responsible for the the conduct of all people on site, as if they were employees.

This must be the case, because, if the site owner knows that a person has a malicious intent, they would refuse access.

So if the damaged was caused by another caravan owner who was on site by virtue of having permission of the site owner to be there, then the site owner has basically authorised any action the customer takes, including damaging property.

If the site is open and has no means of preventing the general public from gaining access the situation is different, and the above could not apply.

 

[Dustydog]

Philspadders

More thoughts.

As you are reasonably certain in your own mind who did it ; it could be argued the storage owners are perverting the course of justice by denying you access to the possible miscreant. A strongly worded letter to teh storage owners threatening them with perverting natural justice by not revealing the identity may help.

If the police were involved I am sure they would pursue the old chap and examine his caravan? A visit to your local police station may help. I don't know how interested the police are in crime today but I don't see why you as a tax payer shouldn't ask for their help.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[TerryIvybridge]

Hello Philspadders,

Given the circumstances you have related in your post, I have to agree with Dustydog. as you did not report the damage to the site owners before you removed the caravan, there is no way you can conclusively prove the damage was caused at the storage site.

But assuming your description is what did happen, then subject to the following assumptions I think storage sites do have a liability for the care and protection of their customers property.

I assume the site is fully fenced or designed to prevent the general public from having unhindered access to the site. Access is therefore only granted to persons who have been given permission to enter by the site owner or their employee or agent. This permission may be effectively granted by issuing of a pass key/card, or by having a guarded gate. This is important because if access to the site is controlled by the site owner, they are are responsible for the the conduct of all people on site, as if they were employees.

This must be the case, because, if the site owner knows that a person has a malicious intent, they would refuse access.

So if the damaged was caused by another caravan owner who was on site by virtue of having permission of the site owner to be there, then the site owner has basically authorised any action the customer takes, including damaging property.

If the site is open and has no means of preventing the general public from gaining access the situation is different, and the above could not apply.

You have my symphathies. A slightly different story, but the same ending I fear. My 'van in for warranty repair several years ago became a total loss after being burn to the ground along with 30 or so others. It was booked in for repairs that should have only taken one to 2 weeks. After 5 weeks and still no start made,4 days after my final ultimatum, all went up in smoke at this large dealership. Guess who had to make a claim, fight over its value, Buy a new 'van, lose NCB, AND pay a new premium?. I really hope you can more easily resolve your problem than we did

 

[SteveW77]

The site owner cannot give you the name and address of the person you think is responsible, because it would be a breach of the Data Protection act.

Just because you think this man is responsible, does not make it a fact. As has already been pointed out, you had removed the van from the site before you noticed the damage and could not possibly satisfy a court that the damage was caused by this person.

As for the site owner, all he has to do in law is take reasonable precautions. It would be impossible to prove negligence on their behalf, as it is unreasonable to expect them to keep every van stored there under 24hr surveillance.

Steve W

 

[chris_374398963]

Could I ask where the caravan was kept in storage as I know that when they have to take a caravan from storage,for repair. They have two people to get the caravan one the driver and the other one a spotter. Where has before they only had a driver and I wondered if something had happened for them to change policy.

 

[xtrailman]

The storage site our friends use no longer allows owners to site the vans.

This policy was implemented after a caravan was damaged.

I would suggest that you claim on your insurance, and resite your caravan at such a site as above.

Another storage site i know of, is run by someone i have known for 20 years, he has told me no end of scams that caravan owners have attempted, one is siteing a damaged caravan, only to later claim it has been damaged in storage!

 

[Mikey1]

If you have no witness's you are then assuming it was the van next door.

How do know that when the space was empty someone else used the space to turn etc.

Im sure the storage company have a sign up saying they accept no responsibilty for damage?

As for getting the police out to find the owner of the van and check for damage well i wish you all the luck in the world.

The police round here didnt even come out when next door neigbours car got hit in the road by another car.

 

[trickydicky]

Hello Philspadders,

You have my total sympathy.Personnaly I would leave it all in the hands of the insurance company and let them sort it out on your behalf.

At the end of the day you may have to pay an excess,but at least you will have a clear conscience,which is worth a lot more than the excess.

Enjoy your holidays,

Cheers Richard

 

[DerekBrad]

The very same type of damage was caused to our (then)seven month old van. Nearside rail bent forward etc. We only found the damage when putting up the awning in France.When we returned to the storage site, the next van to our position was still absent. We had the rail replaced on insurance. Later in the year the neighbouring van had returned and we could see corresponding damage to the awning rail on their van.Although it was pretty obvious to us how the damage had been caused, we didn't feel that we would get anywhere with legal or confrontational action as we only discovered the damage after leaving the storage site.At the beginning of this season I attached a polite note to his grab handle asking him to take care when pulling his van out.I don't think that there's much more to be said or done.Annoying all the same!

 

[Rioja]

Yes, one for the insurance to sort out and leave it at that.

It's inconvenient having to have it repaired but it sounds that you can still use it for your hols. You can always put the awning up on the other side of the van...yes I know not the same but better than nothing.

 

[Surfer]

Unfortunately there is no ways you can prove that the damage happened in the storage area there fore ther is very little you cna do about it. All the storage company will say is that it coudl ahve happene doff side.

If you has spotted it prior to removing the caravan the storage site would more than likely have been liable and would have had to pay for repairs as the contact would have ben for safe storage.

 

[Philspadders]

just got back,thanks for the comments.

The damage is consistent with a rear to front movement, the owner next to ours had not moved his van in months,and the first time he did.... damage.

I have had a bit of go at the storage receptionist. Everything was met with a negative answer.

I asked if could contact the van owner " no".

I asked if they would contact the van owner and pass my details to him. "no.

She said the owner had sold the van, so asked them to find out where it is as i want to inspect it... again the answer was " oh ,im not sure we can do that"

I asked if they would release the cctv footage to me.. "no"

I was told they did not know how to review the footage and work the cctv, and as the owner is on holiday and they dont know when he would be back.

I asked them to contact thew owner.... "no"

I asked " how long do you store the footage"

She did not know but said it was "oh weeks"

Then the silly mare said " oh , you dont like being told "no" do you.

My wife made me leave premises before i got really upset.

I am making an insurance claim but my excess is

 

[Philspadders]

should have added that the owner moved his van on the 3rd July.The damage was not there as i used the week before and had the awning up,and got photo's.

The way the storage is laid out there is no possibility of anyone else causing the damage.

The site does have 24hr surveillance plus cctv of every movement in and out of the site with very high quality cctv. A still photograph is taken of every car / outfit leaving the double barrier exit/ entry system.

It is very secure.

 

[Rioja]

If a photo was taken of your vehicle and van leaving the premises they must know if it was damaged ?!!

 

[Mikey1]

Difficult one but be careful that you say too much to them as they could ask you not to come back so you would have find new storage.

They are entitled to say no to you viewing the cctv only the police can do this and they dont have to reveal any information to you only the Police so they can take it up,but if they are not interested???

I bet they have a disclaimer up.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The CCTV footage is subject to the DATA PROTECTION ACT (DPA)

Any person who believed they may be on the footage has the right to ask to see it, BUT, the owners only have to show segments that include you no one else. The footage may need to have other identifying details of other people and property blurred out (the equivalent of redaction) to protect their rights under the DPA.

 

[Philspadders]

Data Protection....mmm . In many cases Data protection is misused and misquoted and often googled incorrectly, but there you go.

A the cctv is in a public place then you accept that you are gouing to be recored and the information has to be available.

As for the storage there is nothing in the contract regarding damage, no disclaimers and no signs anywhere.

The other owner has now come clean. he was advised that the cctv was being reviewed and has now passed me his telephone number so we can let the insurers deal with it.

If he had done the honest and decent thing in the first place we could have avoided all the tears and upset.

 

[Dustydog]

At last a step in the right direction, well done.

I've always had my doubts about the DPA being used as an excuse to conceal a wrongdoing.

It is not absolute in so far as a number of situations can arise where the data can be transmitted.

eg and I quote from the Act

" The fair processing notice (also known by other names such as 'data protection notice') should include the following information

the identity of the data controller

the purposes for which the personal data are intended to be processed

to whom the personal data may be disclosed to, eg a government department or agency

and any further information regarding the processing, to enable processing in respect of the data subject to be fair"

Thus imo if you or your insurers have reasonable grounds to accuse the chap next door, and such accusation is coroborated by the CCTV evidence seen by the site owner, then I believe he has a duty to tell you the name and address of the person involved. Failure to do so can only be a further wrong doing by perverting the course of justice.

Now if the boys in blue had come forward at the start , you would not have had a problem.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Philspadders]

all sorted,.just got off the telephone with the gentleman concerned.No recriminations,i was as nice as pie.

But i know what happened.

He usually used a mover to shift the van before hitching up but on this occasion the battery was flat so pulled it out with his car and completely misjudged the turn.

all's well that ends well as they say.