Are all UK Tracing Apps comptable with each other?

[Sam Vimes]

Scotland's Tracing App was launched a few days back. I now see that England and Wales have also launched theirs. Does anyone know if these are all compatable with each other or do we need a different one depending on where we live and where we visit?

Also although the details say you need to keep Bluetooth on there's no mention of have any Mobile Data enabled. So if you don't have Mobile Data enabled how do you get contacted? Wait until you get a wifi signal perhaps!

 

[Jcloughie]

To add to that, after the first attempt, remember IoW. Apple and Google have supposedly worked together to produce their own. One would think that should be the best and most reliable. But no, we seem to have a lack of cooperation and collaboration between our nations and the nations of the world.

Surly it is exactly what smart phones should be great at.



John

 

[Beehpee]

I thought England app wasn’t till later in the month or have I missed it?

BP

 

[Sam Vimes]

You may well be correct but the question still remains - do they talk to each other?

Personally I'd like to see a count on my phone that tells me how many others its registered, regardless of the owners state of health - just to give me confidence its actually working.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm pretty certain they don't talk to each other. This is the Ununited Kingdom.

 

[Raywood]

I think they are all different as that is the inference I get from the reports on these. The answer seems to be if you move from one country to the other download their app, although one for all would make more sense.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Although I've not seen any official annoucement, just whats on the Beeb News, you can only have one tracing app running at any one time. So as you move from each of the UK regions you'll need to have the relevant app running.

Seems like some good joined up thinking there - Not!

Still haven't had any confirmation on how you get notified or conversely how 'they' get your status from your phone.

 

[otherclive]

Although I've not seen any official annoucement, just whats on the Beeb News, you can only have one tracing app running at any one time. So as you move from each of the UK regions you'll need to have the relevant app running.

Seems like some good joined up thinking there - Not!

Still haven't had any confirmation on how you get notified or conversely how 'they' get your status from your phone.

England and Wales use the same app. If you look on the BBC news website there is a good explanation of how it works. No personal data is sent to HMG etc. If you use it and catch Covid then you notify that to the app which then notifies other app users who it calculates may be at risk that they should get checked. But it doesn’t tell anyone who you are. It’s not going to be a panacea but it will help in the overall approach. Plus using it for Covid will help develop improvements for when the next nasty arrives.

Covid app England

 

[Jcloughie]

England and Wales use the same app. If you look on the BBC news website there is a good explanation of how it works. No personal data is sent to HMG etc. If you use it and catch Covid then you notify that to the app which then notifies other app users who it calculates may be at risk that they should get checked. But it doesn’t tell anyone who you are. It’s not going to be a panacea but it will help in the overall approach. Plus using it for Covid will help develop improvements for when the next nasty arrives.

Covid app England

As take up is voluntary, I wonder just how tiny the take up might be. If, say 10%. and not all of those who are contacted comply. The effect will be very small.

I have not noticed any campaign to encourage downloading.

John

 

[PTA]

I doubt they are compatible.
After all, that would be called sensible, efficient and well thought out.

 

[Woodentop]

Come on, this is Government computing projects we are talking about and we ALL know that they never work!!

I notice when interviewed on TV this morning the MoH spent all his time talking about the extra 'enhanced' features the E&W app has and ignored or buffered any questions about phone operating system compatibility or where the data is stored and for how long. (Apparently anything before an Apple 6 (which I think was iOS 7) will not work with this app. Nothing said about versions of Android!)
He also laughed off the point made that elderly people who are probably the most at risk sector often do not have a smartphone if indeed they have have a mobile phone at all! Signal coverage didn't even get a look in.

 

[Raywood]

I know here in Scotland the government has been pleased with the take up so a decent proportion of the population must be using it. We are assured our personal details are not recorded by the app, which hopefully will have reassured some people.

 

[otherclive]

Come on, this is Government computing projects we are talking about and we ALL know that they never work!!

I notice when interviewed on TV this morning the MoH spent all his time talking about the extra 'enhanced' features the E&W app has and ignored or buffered any questions about phone operating system compatibility or where the data is stored and for how long. (Apparently anything before an Apple 6 (which I think was iOS 7) will not work with this app. Nothing said about versions of Android!)
He also laughed off the point made that elderly people who are probably the most at risk sector often do not have a smartphone if indeed they have have a mobile phone at all! Signal coverage didn't even get a look in.

If you read some of the web articles you will know how it works and where data is stored. It’s basically in the phones with no central storage by any organisation. Any one who uses a smart phone is tracked continually. Our whole society is based on tracking usage and activities by the phones or cards. I’ve learnt to live with it.
Is it not surprising that it won’t work with older software systems. They are a minority anyway and we live day in day out with changes that render our phones and computers programs/app obsolete.

 

[Mel]

Compatibility doesn’t matter to me. Tried to download it but it needs IOS 13 or better. My iPhone 6 which I have only had from new for 2 and a half years only runs on IOS 12.something. Hence no good. Clearly not the case that “ anyone with a smartphone can download it”
I don’t change my phone every year when I have a perfectly good phone!! Better for my pocket, better for the planet.
What I would like to know is what percentage of the population has a phone running on IOS 13 or above.
If any of you lovely tech savvy people can tell me how to upgrade my IOS to 13 ( the phone is fully updated); I will stop ranting.
mel

 

[otherclive]

Compatibility doesn’t matter to me. Tried to download it but it needs IOS 13 or better. My iPhone 6 which I have only had from new for 2 and a half years only runs on IOS 12.something. Hence no good. Clearly not the case that “ anyone with a smartphone can download it”
I don’t change my phone every year when I have a perfectly good phone!! Better for my pocket, better for the planet.
What I would like to know is what percentage of the population has a phone running on IOS 13 or above.
If any of you lovely tech savvy people can tell me how to upgrade my IOS to 13 ( the phone is fully updated); I will stop ranting.
mel

Don’t forget the larger percentage on Android software too. My wife’s iPhone 6S which was a mates rates deal from granddaughter, is running IOS 13.7 and is ready to install IOS14.
The site we are on has given us complementary wifi and downloads are 224mb with upload 50 mb+so she should have no trouble updating.

 

[Sam Vimes]

At least something is better than nothing and its easy to criticise since I don't have to make it work but I'd like to know how to get the best out of it.

I've read some of the web site info and at least for me there are things missing. Specifically the mechanism by which the app gets a notification. I presume that you need an internet connection and for many like me on PAYG I turn mobile data off so as not to eat into my credit. Ok, it will be on wifi when I'm at home so that's a possibility but all the information I've seen from the Protect Scotland app says all I need is to leave bluetooth and location on.

Then the other issue is that if I visit England I have to turn on the English App - no problem - but when I get home I'll have to go back to the Scottish App and I assume that any notifications that the English App throws up wont get through to me unless I load the English App again, and vice versa.

I can see this as being a bit of bother for those in the border areas that commute across them regularly.

 

[Dustydog]

Compatibility doesn’t matter to me. Tried to download it but it needs IOS 13 or better. My iPhone 6 which I have only had from new for 2 and a half years only runs on IOS 12.something. Hence no good. Clearly not the case that “ anyone with a smartphone can download it”
I don’t change my phone every year when I have a perfectly good phone!! Better for my pocket, better for the planet.
What I would like to know is what percentage of the population has a phone running on IOS 13 or above.
If any of you lovely tech savvy people can tell me how to upgrade my IOS to 13 ( the phone is fully updated); I will stop ranting.
mel

Mel, as a dinosaur IPhone 6 I am also very unhappy my android replacement doesn’t respond to HMG NHS app. I am sure more than 50. % of our populous have older mobiles. What idiot set this flawed system up without thinking we can’t all afford the latest tech🤔
Rant Rant Rant🤬🤬🤬🤬

 

[Dustydog]

At least something is better than nothing and its easy to criticise since I don't have to make it work but I'd like to know how to get the best out of it.

I've read some of the web site info and at least for me there are things missing. Specifically the mechanism by which the app gets a notification. I presume that you need an internet connection and for many like me on PAYG I turn mobile data off so as not to eat into my credit. Ok, it will be on wifi when I'm at home so that's a possibility but all the information I've seen from the Protect Scotland app says all I need is to leave bluetooth and location on.

Then the other issue is that if I visit England I have to turn on the English App - no problem - but when I get home I'll have to go back to the Scottish App and I assume that any notifications that the English App throws up wont get through to me unless I load the English App again, and vice versa.

I can see this as being a bit of bother for those in the border areas that commute across them regularly.

So what mobile do you have ?

 

[Sam Vimes]

It's a Realme 6 running Android 10.

I've loaded both the Protect Scotland and the English version and found some more information by reading through the Google > Covid-19 Exposure Notifications and various help files. Eoe as they say.

Periodic connection to the internet is needed in order to get a dowload of people who have tested positive (over what area I'm not sure) and for the English version, venues at which people have had people who've tested positive.

The English version requests a postcode which then gives you a risk level for that area. (It's clever enough not to let you put in Scottish postcodes). It also has the ability to scan QR codes at venues.

Random Ids, i.e contact tracing data are only retained for 14 days, then discarded, so this means you'll only get alerts if you've been in proximity to someone who tested positive in the last 14 days. Venue info is kept for 21 days.

The English one seems more comprehensive than the Scots version. The Scots version mentions that the ability to swap contact tracing data with other countries is being looked into. Perhaps this is dependent on the outcome of Indyref2

 

[otherclive]

Mel, as a dinosaur IPhone 6 I am also very unhappy my android replacement doesn’t respond to HMG NHS app. I am sure more than 50. % of our populous have older mobiles. What idiot set this flawed system up without thinking we can’t all afford the latest tech🤔
Rant Rant Rant🤬🤬🤬🤬

You need to realise that the “idiot” who set up the basis of this type of app are the Google and Apple software teams. The NHS tried a different approach but because of the Apple restrictions on accessing inner workings of Bluetooth had eventually to fall in line with the wider world. You can’t realistically expect major software developers to backtrack a new app into what is basically old operating systems. Just like my MAC runs Catalina OS which is 64 bit and I now have 32 bit programs that will not run. The world moves on.

 

[Dustydog]

You need to realise that the “idiot” who set up the basis of this type of app are the Google and Apple software teams. The NHS tried a different approach but because of the Apple restrictions on accessing inner workings of Bluetooth had eventually to fall in line with the wider world. You can’t realistically expect major software developers to backtrack a new app into what is basically old operating systems. Just like my MAC runs Catalina OS which is 64 bit and I now have 32 bit programs that will not run. The world moves on.

Sadly OC that’s very unfair. Half the populous cannot afford hi tech modern technology. We are dealing with a national crisis and I am tol d my phone is useless. Both Aldi and Lidl have given me apps recently to improve and cheapen my shopping. Who is pulling whose strings here🤬🤬

 

[otherclive]

Sadly OC that’s very unfair. Half the populous cannot afford hi tech modern technology. We are dealing with a national crisis and I am tol d my phone is useless. Both Aldi and Lidl have given me apps recently to improve and cheapen my shopping. Who is pulling whose strings here🤬🤬

I understand where you are coming from but basic apps don’t require the operating systems that a Bluetooth integrated measurement app requires, or the ability to store data for subsequent use when a detection is registered. It’s like comparing chalk and cheese unfortunately.

 

[Jcloughie]

My guess is that Apple and Google would try to write the software to be as backward compatible as possible. But the sticking point might be the Bluetooth version that the phone has which give the limitations.

John

 

[otherclive]

My guess is that Apple and Google would try to write the software to be as backward compatible as possible. But the sticking point might be the Bluetooth version that the phone has which give the limitations.

John

Your right as these apps are Bluetooth dependent and basically need Bluetooth to be available continuously. On my present iPhone SE (old version) I was surprised that Bluetooth seemed to keep coming on but eventually found that the software and processors only require much lower power levels such that it did not unduly drain the battery like my previous phones would have done.
The apps have to detect and handshake adjacent phones and measure the distance and time in proximity. If above a predetermined level the data is stored in the phones. If someone then becomes Covid positive they should notify the app which then communicates via messaging to the phones that were above the predetermined level. But somehow it converts the Bluetooth handshake ID to a enable the messaging to take place. Mobile operators have said that using the app will not count against mobile data allowance.

 

[Dustydog]

In a nutshell no good for half the population😢😢😢😢