I have just taken delivery of a new Mondeo Titanium X 2.2 tdi and I ordered a factory fitted detachable towbar as an option. On previous cars I have owned they have all had an additional indicator bleeper which activates when you are towing and in fact I have been told that this is a legal requirement. My new car however does not have this feature and there is no towing warning light on the dashboard either. I tried to get a seperate bleeper device fitted by a towbar specialist but they have said that they cannot touch the Ford wiring system and they have suggested that the computer in the car may need re programming to recognise when I am towing. I have mentioned this to several Ford dealerships and none of them have heard of this remedy so I am back to square one. I have been towing for several years I do like the audible reminder from the indicators. is there a simple and hopefully cheap fix to this problem or at least a technical link that I can refer a Ford dealership to?
Audible Indicator Warning
- Thread starter Graham_374527738
- Start date
Legal requirements state that there must be an audible or visual warning only if the indicators are not working. There is no requirement to inform if there are working properly.
Not too sure about that one. As far as I am aware it is the legal requirement that if you have a trailer you must have some indication that the lights are operating correctly.
Some cars do require the computer system to be adjusted to allow for a dashboard light to work. Have a look at the handbookmas it often shows a light, that may not be operating when solo. If so, then a dealer will indeed need to re programme the vehicle. My Volvo required this and was done when the tow bar was fitted.
If all fails and you are still unhappy then you can buy a stand alone audible device that can attach into the wiring loom in the boot.
Some cars do require the computer system to be adjusted to allow for a dashboard light to work. Have a look at the handbookmas it often shows a light, that may not be operating when solo. If so, then a dealer will indeed need to re programme the vehicle. My Volvo required this and was done when the tow bar was fitted.
If all fails and you are still unhappy then you can buy a stand alone audible device that can attach into the wiring loom in the boot.
Sorry Scotch Lad,
But all that will do is tell you that power is being fed to the circuit. It wont tell if the caravan is connected or that the lights are/not working.
Legal requirements state that there must be an audible or visual warning only if the indicators are not working. There is no requirement to inform if there are working properly.
hi lutz, i have read that before, however, like graham i prefer to know that they work with either the noise or as you say the visual indicator. takes me back to when i once had to go through a mine warfare course down in frimbley. we had a day using these old fashioned metal detectors and my head was buzzing with the constant high pitched whine it made, i asked an instructor if it would not be better if it was silent when sweepng and then made the noise when it detected something.
his answer was that all the time it whined, you knew it was working, if it was the other way around and for some reason it malfunctioned, then you wouldnt have known about it.
give me the noise anytime.
hi lutz, i have read that before, however, like graham i prefer to know that they work with either the noise or as you say the visual indicator. takes me back to when i once had to go through a mine warfare course down in frimbley. we had a day using these old fashioned metal detectors and my head was buzzing with the constant high pitched whine it made, i asked an instructor if it would not be better if it was silent when sweepng and then made the noise when it detected something.
his answer was that all the time it whined, you knew it was working, if it was the other way around and for some reason it malfunctioned, then you wouldnt have known about it.
give me the noise anytime.
my new avensis is exactly the same it only has an audible warning when one of the indicators is not working toyota say that is how the wiring loom works you do get used to no beep or flashing so its no problem when towing
Many thanks to everyone for such a speedy response. As my wifes dubious map reading skills are redundant following my investment in a Sat Nav, perhaps she could make a bleeping noise as we go round corners !
Graham,
I'm with most of the others - I like having a positive reminder that they are working. I'm glad to say that our Volvo has a light in the instrument binnacle to reassure me.
I have to say that were I in your position, I would definitely, at least once, take an indicator bulb out of the caravan and check whether there is actually a failure warning in the car.
Cheers
Mike A
I'm with most of the others - I like having a positive reminder that they are working. I'm glad to say that our Volvo has a light in the instrument binnacle to reassure me.
I have to say that were I in your position, I would definitely, at least once, take an indicator bulb out of the caravan and check whether there is actually a failure warning in the car.
Cheers
Mike A
Guys,
As I remember the contsruction and use regs, the car is required by law to have an beeper/light to be activated while the indicators are functioning on the trailer. The beeper is the usual option as it can easily be hidden in the boot area thus avoiding running long wires, so saving the fitters time.
To be honest I would be quite concerned if tow bar fitters are fighting shy of touching Ford's wiring. They usually know when they are inviting trouble for themselves. It sound to me like you could be in for reliability issues when the new lighting socket get's a bit old and corroded if the electrical system is so sensative.
Going back a few decades Swift had a good idea and a way around the noisy beeper situation. On my Dannette they had a repeater light fitted at the front side of the van which was easily seen in the car mirrors which confirmed that the caravan indicators were functioning. Obviously this did not confirm that the rear light worked but if you do what you should before you start the day towing, do a full lights check, then there should be enough confidence that lights work. From a pure safety point of view I realy fail to see why Swift dropped this additional light on future models, as it realy gave a clear signal to everyone thyat not only were you turning, but that you had a caravan on the back as well.
Steve L.
As I remember the contsruction and use regs, the car is required by law to have an beeper/light to be activated while the indicators are functioning on the trailer. The beeper is the usual option as it can easily be hidden in the boot area thus avoiding running long wires, so saving the fitters time.
To be honest I would be quite concerned if tow bar fitters are fighting shy of touching Ford's wiring. They usually know when they are inviting trouble for themselves. It sound to me like you could be in for reliability issues when the new lighting socket get's a bit old and corroded if the electrical system is so sensative.
Going back a few decades Swift had a good idea and a way around the noisy beeper situation. On my Dannette they had a repeater light fitted at the front side of the van which was easily seen in the car mirrors which confirmed that the caravan indicators were functioning. Obviously this did not confirm that the rear light worked but if you do what you should before you start the day towing, do a full lights check, then there should be enough confidence that lights work. From a pure safety point of view I realy fail to see why Swift dropped this additional light on future models, as it realy gave a clear signal to everyone thyat not only were you turning, but that you had a caravan on the back as well.
Steve L.
If a car indicator lamp fails then the dash light speeds up and the ticking increases to warn you.The same happens if a caravan indicator fails. i was unsure and removed a 'van indicator and it's true.
Ron.
Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 states, quote:
(b)The vehicle shall be equipped with an operational tell-tale for front and rear indicators (including any rear indicator on the rearmost of any trailers drawn by the vehicle).
The regulations do not explictly say whether a separate tell-tale is required for the trailer indicator to show whether they are working properly or only a warning if they do not. In the latter case, the normal car's tell-tale would have to be able to identify the trailer's indicator lights, too, in order to fulfil the requirements of the regulations.
(b)The vehicle shall be equipped with an operational tell-tale for front and rear indicators (including any rear indicator on the rearmost of any trailers drawn by the vehicle).
The regulations do not explictly say whether a separate tell-tale is required for the trailer indicator to show whether they are working properly or only a warning if they do not. In the latter case, the normal car's tell-tale would have to be able to identify the trailer's indicator lights, too, in order to fulfil the requirements of the regulations.
Lutz,
I think you are 'splitting hairs' with that one. No indicator light will tell you WHICH bulb has failed, only if one of the total is not working. Even the computer systems usually only tell you a 'stop light' or side light' has failed, not which particular one.
The point of the system is that it tells you all is well with ALL the bulbs in any given circuit. Usually when one has failed the thing blinks far more rapidly and if there is an audible device it again beeps rapidly, and again the computer may tell you an 'indicator bulb has failed'. It is up to you to stop and check which one.
I think you are 'splitting hairs' with that one. No indicator light will tell you WHICH bulb has failed, only if one of the total is not working. Even the computer systems usually only tell you a 'stop light' or side light' has failed, not which particular one.
The point of the system is that it tells you all is well with ALL the bulbs in any given circuit. Usually when one has failed the thing blinks far more rapidly and if there is an audible device it again beeps rapidly, and again the computer may tell you an 'indicator bulb has failed'. It is up to you to stop and check which one.
I think you may have misunderstood me, Scotch Lad. All I was trying to say was that if the car doesn't have a separate warning buzzer or light to tell the driver that the trailer's indicator light is working, then any existing light failure, i.e. "light not working", warning system must be able to recognise the presence of a trailer and monitor its indicator lights at the same time, too. I think this will normally be the case.
The Ford system indicates a bulb failure by faster flashing of the indicator warning lamp. When it's working ok then the idicator lamps work normally. You don't need a bleeper.
I'd check that pin 9 (permananet 12v) has been connected as this is an optional extra not supplied as standard with the Ford/Westfalia wiring kit. I had to jump all over my dealer to get it fitted. You need it to charge the van battery and to power the ATC if it's fitted to the van.
I'd check that pin 9 (permananet 12v) has been connected as this is an optional extra not supplied as standard with the Ford/Westfalia wiring kit. I had to jump all over my dealer to get it fitted. You need it to charge the van battery and to power the ATC if it's fitted to the van.
Does the car have a inbuilt bulb failure detection system, if it does then sometime maunfaturers systems will also detect bulb failure of an attached trailer.
Any 'in built' system will only work if it has been designed to accomodate a trailer as built. Very few tow vehicles are equipped as such and extra wiring, relays etc are usually required and are part of the tow hitch fitting. These can either be an easy 'plug in 'set up, or require additional wiring to be connected to the car system.
Buld failure devices are set so that they recognise the lamps fitted to the car, usually in pairs. When a bulb fails the resistance changes and the system recognises this. This is more particular to vehicles where the lights are not powered normally but through a computerised slave system, with lower amperage. When extra lights for a trailer are added, a relay is usually required to support the extra load on the system. Again, it is not common for this to be fitted as standard.
Therefore, as soon as you fit a trailer the additional wiring system required to make it all work virtually always includes some means of confirming it is indeed working, or not.
Buld failure devices are set so that they recognise the lamps fitted to the car, usually in pairs. When a bulb fails the resistance changes and the system recognises this. This is more particular to vehicles where the lights are not powered normally but through a computerised slave system, with lower amperage. When extra lights for a trailer are added, a relay is usually required to support the extra load on the system. Again, it is not common for this to be fitted as standard.
Therefore, as soon as you fit a trailer the additional wiring system required to make it all work virtually always includes some means of confirming it is indeed working, or not.
Hi Graeme i have a 2.2 titanium x sport and was a bit dissapointed when i discovered there was no audible alarm while indicating, im wondering if there is an update available on the onverse+
Great for towing tho.
Rab
Great for towing tho.
Rab
I must say this is a topic that has never crossed my mind and I didn't realise there were any regulations at all.
Just for the record the system in my BMW does tell you which exact light is out through means of a visual display. I only found out this also works for any attached trailer for the first time the other day (when in bonged to tell me so!)but the trailer is not as specific in saying which bulb is out just that either the indicator or brake light has failed. There is no audible or visual display to tell you they are working just a warning to tell you when they fail. The Witter loom I DIY fitted was only about 5 connections as well. I think a buzzing noise or an additional flashing light to the one I already have for the indicator would annoy the hell out of me...
Just for the record the system in my BMW does tell you which exact light is out through means of a visual display. I only found out this also works for any attached trailer for the first time the other day (when in bonged to tell me so!)but the trailer is not as specific in saying which bulb is out just that either the indicator or brake light has failed. There is no audible or visual display to tell you they are working just a warning to tell you when they fail. The Witter loom I DIY fitted was only about 5 connections as well. I think a buzzing noise or an additional flashing light to the one I already have for the indicator would annoy the hell out of me...
ScotchLad writes :
No indicator light will tell you WHICH bulb has failed, only if one of the total is not working. Even the computer systems usually only tell you a 'stop light' or side light' has failed, not which particular one.
Wrong. My Passat tells me exactly which bulb is not working, as soon as I have plugged in the caravan/trailer. It does not even wait for me to put the indicators on or depress the brake pedal to give the warning.
No indicator light will tell you WHICH bulb has failed, only if one of the total is not working. Even the computer systems usually only tell you a 'stop light' or side light' has failed, not which particular one.
Wrong. My Passat tells me exactly which bulb is not working, as soon as I have plugged in the caravan/trailer. It does not even wait for me to put the indicators on or depress the brake pedal to give the warning.
I have a Vectra which has a built failure warning system, and it works very well, exept when towing. We have a Ranger GT60 which does not have a reversing light, so the system is showing a constant 'failure'.
Is it easy to have a reversing light fitted?
Is it easy to have a reversing light fitted?
Interesting Herve,How can it do that?Admittedly German electronics are clever and the idea is not new infact a German truck builder has been using it for more than 10years,Known as lamp learning.As said it simply does a resistance check as soon as the ignition is "on".But even this system which utilises a ZBR control unit,(body computer)can not distinquise which actual bulb has failed due to the fact most if not all trailers dont have a seperate circuit for each lamp.
Actually my last post was incorrect as the system in the BMW does tell you exactly which bulb had failed ie left/right. Last Sunday whilst on the move it told me the right indicator on the trailer wasn't working. I stopped and reseated the bulb and all was well again. Originally when I installed the wiring kit the indicator wire simply spliced into the CAN bus. It's just one wire so it's a pretty smart system as it drives both indicators as well as senses for faults. If you want to know more about CAN bus systems best to look it up on wikipedia.org. As my car is 6 years old now its not exactly new technology but those Germans sure know how to make a car!
Hello Jeff&Di.Understandable yes it will monitor a defective indicator bulb or brake lamp bulb and also which side has failed simply because there is only one of each.(trailer this is)But lets use sidelights as an example,and whats fitted per side.
1,o/s/r taillamp.
2,o/s/r upper outline marker.
3,o/s/f lower outline marker.
All feed off sidelights,how does it differentiate?I would presume the c,van is wired as usual?
1,o/s/r taillamp.
2,o/s/r upper outline marker.
3,o/s/f lower outline marker.
All feed off sidelights,how does it differentiate?I would presume the c,van is wired as usual?
Hi Seth,
We need an automotive technician to explain I think. My degree is only in Mechanical Engineering! The days of sending an electrical charge to a bulb from under the dash board are gone. Now it sends a coded signal to a receiver. Part of the loom I had to install had a box which I guess was the receiver part for the trailer. I think now some car manufacturers use fiber-optics instead of copper which is why tow bar electrics are getting more and more expensive.
I will grant you though for the marker lights I don't know how it would differentiate. Perhaps someone can enlighten us... I didn't mean to open a can of worms!
We need an automotive technician to explain I think. My degree is only in Mechanical Engineering! The days of sending an electrical charge to a bulb from under the dash board are gone. Now it sends a coded signal to a receiver. Part of the loom I had to install had a box which I guess was the receiver part for the trailer. I think now some car manufacturers use fiber-optics instead of copper which is why tow bar electrics are getting more and more expensive.
I will grant you though for the marker lights I don't know how it would differentiate. Perhaps someone can enlighten us... I didn't mean to open a can of worms!
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