Auto Vs Manual

[Vince.McLaughlin]

Hello everyone,

I wonder if you could help me with a question?

I currently have a 520D M-sport manual which will be 'going back' soon (it's a company car).

I am opting out and buying an X5 3.0D Auto - it will be latest model, but a few months 'pre-loved'

The current car is starting to struggle a bit with reversing my (admittedly very heavy) 'van up the long drive of our storage yard (smelly, smokey clutch...)
Do auto's suffer simmilarly? I know they don't typically have a clutch (unless it's a DSG type affair, which the BMW isn't). Which parts (if any) are likely to wear out in the same fashion as the clutch on my now abused 520?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Surfer]

Hello everyone,

I wonder if you could help me with a question?

I currently have a 520D M-sport manual which will be 'going back' soon (it's a company car).

I am opting out and buying an X5 3.0D Auto - it will be latest model, but a few months 'pre-loved'

The current car is starting to struggle a bit with reversing my (admittedly very heavy) 'van up the long drive of our storage yard (smelly, smokey clutch...)
Do auto's suffer simmilarly? I know they don't typically have a clutch (unless it's a DSG type affair, which the BMW isn't). Which parts (if any) are likely to wear out in the same fashion as the clutch on my now abused 520?

Thanks in advance.

Auto is the best option and if it is a torque convertor style gearbox. there should be no problems.

 

[Parksy]

I concur with Surfer, an auto gearbox will provide greater control while reversing with no undue wear on any component.
Auto gearboxes give a relaxing towing experience, it's important to check the automatic transmission fluid level and to ensure that it is changed fairly regularly before it starts to give off a burnt smell.
The main penalty is poorer fuel consumption than with a manual transmission but there's less chance of repairs becoming likely.

 

[emmerson]

Vince, you've re- opened a real can of worms here! This debate has been going on since Adam was a boy.There are those who won't have auto at any price, and others, like me, who won't have anything else.
With regard to your problem, as has been said, a torque converter type auto will not suffer the problems that your manual box does, but I've had no experience of modern auto boxes some of which appear to be simply manual box and clutch which change gear automatically. My neighbour had a Honda Jazz with this box, and it was probably the most awful car I'bve ever driven!
I should ask your dealer what type of autobox is in the X5. If is the torque converter type, then welcome to the world of TRULY relaxed driving!

 

[otherclive]

Make sure the Pre Loved X5 has all of the kit for towing as to fit it afterwards can be very expensive, unless BMW now make all the cars fit for towing straight out of the factory. It is the cooling system mods that seem to catch people out when buying a preloved BMW.

 

[Vince.McLaughlin]

Hi - Thanks to all for the replies / comments. The gearbox is the torque convertor kind, so looks like a good decision!

I will check with the dealer on the differences between a factory specified towbar, and a retro fit. (It will be part of the negotiation that whichever dealer is willing to do it for free gets my cash anway - there are 143 X5s on the official used website that match my criteria, so it's definitely a buyers market

)

 

[otherclive]

Vince

it's not so much the towbar as mods to the car to improve cooling when towing. If you look at the Caravantalk website you will see posts on the topic. Just google X5 towing mods. Some owners use X5s that have not been factory or dealer modified and the cars have no problems, but the issue of warranty rears its ugly head especially if there has been a non OEM or dealer modification such as towbar, or non-fitment of cooling mods. Some post have quoted costs of £2k for a BMW dealer to fit the necessaries.

 

[seth1]

I think this one needs your brain reprogramming,i mean after a manual its sometimes hard to except the decisions the car decides to make conserning the auto gearbox and the ratios it chooses.I switched to an auto about 12months or so ago and must admit i hated it.To me it always felt in the wrong gear,always changed down when it didnt need to,always hunting up and down the box.Now i just leave it to its own devises,Screaming its b******s off,when it doesnt need too,but on the plus point 5 cylinder diesels do sound sweet when their reving their guts out.Agreeing with others at least theres no DMF or clutch to worry about now.

 

[emmerson]

Seth, I'd suggest that if ANY automatic is "screaming its b******s off", then there is something very wrong with it.
That's the whole point of an auto - the right gear at the right time, with the right revs.

 

[otherclive]

I cannot really say that I have had Seth's experience with my most recent two autos (Sorento 5 speed and xc70 6 speed). Both have been good at selecting the suitable gear on most occasions and if I want a bit more control I just select the manual mode for things like hill descents or holding distance on busy motorways. Most modern autos have an adaptive function that will intuitively adjust gear changes to driving style.

 

[seth1]

Mine has all the above mentioned,6 speed,tiptronic,hill decent,lock up on top gear.I also adjust the gear selection with the manual side or rather did do when i could be bothered.The problem i have is at 60mph the box is in 6th gear which it will run in with the van on,the engine is turning over at 1250rpm.The minute it spots a hill,probably from 10 mile away it,ll drop 2 gears,then maybe another halfway up the hill if i want to accelarate to overtake a truck by this point we might see 3000rpm showing.My point is it has enough grunt on paper to go up in 5th at least and if it was manual that is what i would expect.Poor gearbox mapping or a gearbox that cant handle high torque loadings.(Asin)

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Since I've been towing I've had two auto's. Firstly a Passat and now a Sorento and even if I gave up caravanning I'd never go back to manual.

 

[otherclive]

Vince
as said earlier the auto v manual excites as much interest as 2wd v 4wd. Your best bet is to drive both options of the X5 and then whichever you choose make sure it is suitable for towing within BMW's warranty cover. I agree with LB above as long as I can get torque convertor autos I would not go back to manual for towing duties.

 

[MichaelE]

Vince
as said earlier the auto v manual excites as much interest as 2wd v 4wd. Your best bet is to drive both options of the X5 and then whichever you choose make sure it is suitable for towing within BMW's warranty cover. I agree with LB above as long as I can get torque convertor autos I would not go back to manual for towing duties.

The later X5 is an 8 speed automatic only option

 

[Dustydog]

Twenty tears ago I had a Ford Sierra with a 4 speed autobox. It was terrible, hunting al over the place , even on the motorway it would keep changing up and down.
I swore never an auto again.
However although we stil have a manual it does seem the latest autoboxes with at least 5 ratios and "tiptronic" conrols offer a very fine balance indeed. Power loss through the modern torque convertor is negligible .
I suspect my next tug will be an auto .

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all,
I am afraid my experience echos DD had a couple of autos over the years but only ever towed with one the granada that had a borg warner 4 speed auto box while the car was brilliant to drive in a relaxing way as soon as the van when on the back it forgot it had top gear and allways seeemed to be in 3rd .
I know modern auto boxes have come a long way since then and if push came to shove I would have another but just for now a manual fits the bill, I do seem to remember however that the fuel economy if it had one was quite poor. not the sort of investment I would be prepared to make with fuel prices as there are,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,

I know what you mean about fuel consumption, but that might be a bit of a red herring:-

As you have said modern auto's have improved significantly on the fuel consumption front in solo configuration. but may still be thirsty in towing.

That said, when you consider that most car users do far more mileage solo than towing, then the increased fuel consumption when towing is only for a relatively small mileage and for some may be an acceptable cost burden when the relaxed nature of towing can manoeuvring is taken into account or the cost of replacing a clutch or worse a flywheel.

 

[emmerson]

Colin, I too had a V6 Granada auto ( the Scorpio shape), and if I remember correctly, the hand book recommended that you locked into third gear for towing. I generally did, as my then van was really overweight for the car. As for fuel consumption, well, I now run a Range Rover V8 4.2, so I suppose the Granny was quite economical in comparrison!

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi John,
I know exactly where you are comming from and yes there has been a lot of improvement in car design in general not just auto boxes, your comment struck a cord with me as this was the whole cake "so to speak" about going back to a tourer,
and the reason I bought a lightweight van that could be towed by an average smallish economical car,
it is the basis that I used to justify the the cost of a adequate tow car the very thought of having to run a big vehicle for the other 40odd weeks a year when driving solo just so it would tow a decent sized van, sent a shudder down my spine as it is I think it is about right now with the Meriva, enough power to pull the van when it has to yet near on 60 mpg solo,
the problem for me as it stands with auto boxes is the engine size ratio for decent tug in order to get the best out of it without constant gear changes, or poor economy I don't think a 1.7 auto diesel would be much good for this and the reason I stick with manuals,

hi Emmerson, yes the same car so locking it in third makes sense and dropping the speed to 55 ish could have worked well also,
in regard to fuel consumption I suppose for the size of it the granny was reasonable, in comparison to the trans am it was quite economical. but there you go @ £1.40 a litre dont think I would now like to run either.

 

[Martin24]

Until this change of car it was Auto all the way with me and I would still go back to it. Having said that the new car plods on towing hundreds of miles in 6th with the very occasional drop to 5th. More importantly SWIMBO is happier with the manual for towing and general driving so who am I to argue?! No probs with any manouvering as yet.

 

[MrBell]

i have been reading this post and i am also interested in manual or auto for towing, at the minute i am a manual and some time in the next few month will be buying a new car so can tow. I have made the decision to go with a mondeo and iv been looking at what i out there and there is a few autos for sale, no i know that there has been a reveiw about the auto for the mondeo and most say they are good but what i want to know is how good are they!??

 

[Sproket]

1. Both of our's are auto & have had cruise control fitted to my Isuzu Rodeo, brilliant when towing

2. The other thing I like is that when I go for a chinese I can sit the bag just behind the gear leaver & know it wont move about or spill all over the place

now who wants to change gear whilst trying not to spill anything.

 

[otherclive]

Mr Bell,

It is nigh impossible to give a definitive answer to your wide open question. What type Mondeo, petrol or diesel, hatch, estate? What age, will it have a torque convertor auto or Powershift ( DSG type with two clutches).What size and weight of van is another variable. Are you just asking how good is the Mondeo auto or how good is the whole car? There is lots of information on the Honest John website and Warranty Direct Reliabilty Index (+3 years old ) and of course the Mondeo has won numerous awards both solo and as a towcar, but then so has the Passat and Superb which you could also consider. For what it is worth I have towed with a Mk1 Mondeo 2 litre pertol auto estate, the Mk 2 1.8TDI manual estate and the 2litre TDDI hatchback and all were excellent towcars with an 85% ratio caravan in tow. They were also very reliable and not too expensive to service.

 

[MrBell]

Mr Bell,

It is nigh impossible to give a definitive answer to your wide open question. What type Mondeo, petrol or diesel, hatch, estate? What age, will it have a torque convertor auto or Powershift ( DSG type with two clutches).What size and weight of van is another variable. Are you just asking how good is the Mondeo auto or how good is the whole car? There is lots of information on the Honest John website and Warranty Direct Reliabilty Index (+3 years old ) and of course the Mondeo has won numerous awards both solo and as a towcar, but then so has the Passat and Superb which you could also consider. For what it is worth I have towed with a Mk1 Mondeo 2 litre pertol auto estate, the Mk 2 1.8TDI manual estate and the 2litre TDDI hatchback and all were excellent towcars with an 85% ratio caravan in tow. They were also very reliable and not too expensive to service.

Sorry should have given more info, i used to own a mk3 mondeo TDCI hatchback 130bhp manual and it was fab for towing, 6 speed and it was just nice to drive. So i have made my mind up and want another mondeo but the latest model. I am looking for the estate model as now have two big dogs and need room in the back, i know the model im looking at has 90kg of nose weight which is one of the best in its class and can tow 2 tonne (but that would exceed the 85 guideline*) . The powershift auto is tempting and ill be getting the titanium spec as well.
On the side of the caravan well at the minute its a Bailey ranger 460/2 mass weight of 1060kg so i know the mondy would tow with no problems but later on in a few years once family expand will be getting a bigger caravan like a bailey senator 4 birth or maybe a pagent depends on what deals are out there when its time to change.
Really its just which one would be the best, i like the sound of the powershift auto's as it could make towing easier and more relaxing but on the other hand the manual 6 speed sounds just as nice. I have seen a white manual estate on a 11 plate in titanium spec which i really like and its in price range but i also seen a powershift one too.
What do the powershift auto do, i know they are automatic but can you change gears manually like triptronic??

* Moderators Edit
I substituted '85% rule' for '85% guideline' in your thread Mr B to avoid a protracted off topic discussion from others.

 

[otherclive]

The powershift is not a torque converter gearbox. I believe it uses double clutches. Volvo offer it in some V70s as Ford went for commonality when they owned Volvo. Looking at my V70/XC70 handbook the variants that use powershift autos have less capability than torque converter autos and more restrictions seem to be mentioned. Fords tech dept are very good and should be able to advise you. Also can you download Owners Manual from Ford website as you can for Volvo?