Avondale Classic Converting to 13 Pin Plug

[Insuranceman]

Hi,

I am new to the forum so please be gentle with me.

I am tryng to replace the 12s & 12n plugs with one lead and 13 pin euro plug. I was using a converter but I was getting bad connections somewhere inside.

The caravan is a Avondale Classic 25.

I have managed to sort the wiring for the lights (Brake, Indicators, Side Lights) but when it comes to the 12 volt supply for the fridge, battery and distribution I am having problems. The new lead on the euro plug only has 2 12 volt feeds, one is a constant feed and the other is a switched feed (Ignition) but on the caravan there is 3 feeds required, one for the fridge, one for the battery and one for the distribution.

Has anyone been able to do this wiring and how did they get round the problem?

 

[johnandrew70]

I beleive you need to connect the constant supply to the distribution and the switched supply to the battery and fridge also when testing that all is working find someone to just raise the rpmn on the car as the split charge relay on your car maybe Voltage sensing so wont give a reading until the alternator pushing out enough voltage to close the relay.
Someone else may come along and say differently but i am sure thats what you need to do,
There is a spare pin on the 13 pin which is pin 12 you could get an auto electrician to wire another switched supply to this pin on your car then use that pin on the caravan.Check out the image below.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi insuranceman,
there are several ways one can gain an extra feed, but this depends on how the grey plug was wired originally the type of smart relay used and the way the feed wires are connected to the van.
rememeber the colour codes will be different on the 13 pin cable,
I am assuming the wiring on the old 12s plug used the green wire from pin 4. is this correct!! and is it connected to the relay at the car end!
we need a bit more information please,

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi Again the diagrahm supplied John is correct for the double entry plug, using existing twin wires, however I assume you are rewiring with a single 13 pin flex and plug these are slightly different, as I said before it depends how the wiring is done at the van end and the type of smart relay used.

 

[johnandrew70]

Hi Colin
I posted that Image as it shows the colours of the 12n and 12s cable rather than the colours of the new 13 pin cable.
I recently re-wired the 2 12n and 12s to a 13pin plug on my own van but my van is newer than Insuranceman's van, if i was him i would get another switched supply wired to pin 12 and use pin 9 for distribution pin 10 for battery charging and pin 12 for Fridge. Depending on who has wired the towbar on his car he may find there is already a switched supply on pin 12,
John

 

[johnandrew70]

Whoops Sorry i was under impression you were going to use a double entry 13pin plug,
John

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi John,
I think we are thinking along the same lines here, with a similar idea, however it depends how the OP's original wiring has been done,
and how the split relay has been wired,
I had one advantage when I did mine as I rewired the car as well using a TCE2M relay this has a spare perminant feed on pin 2 (aux)
that I wired the spare Blue/white wire to pin 12, at the van end this was wired into the auxilary box,
however one has to be careful because all the other wires in the 13pin wire flex with a white trace are earth wires ie red/white and black/white. plus the orange and red wires (perminant feed and fridge) are thicker wire, for the increasd current load,
we will have to wait untill the Op comes back with some more information.

EDIT, on reflexion I think we can assume that the Op's twin wire setup already has 3 feed wires question is which one probablly the blue or green one if this is correct a simple subtitution for the blue/white wire should work

 

[johnandrew70]

Yes i think we need to find out if he is actually going down the route of replacing the 2 cables with one or using a double entry also.
I did toy with the idea of replacing the 2 cables with 1 myself but didnt know where the cables attached to the van and didnt want to mess things up, also the cable was very expensive for what it is, so decided on the cheaper option.
i believe pin 12 on the cars 13pin socket is supposed to be for ATC if your caravan has it. We have done a few in work where the Customer has wanted it, usually its left as a spare.

John

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi John,
yes what you have said is correct, the spare wire pin12 is used for this purpose, and the reason it is blue/white as eventully the feed goes to earth through the ATC, remember all white trace wires are earth wires that go through a componant,
it did not matter to me when i rewired the van and car as it is unlikely I shall change the van so I used the aux blue/white wire as an extra feed from pin 2 on the relay.

 

[Insuranceman]

Thanks for your replys.

In the van there are three power supplys.

Red wire to the fridge.

Blue wire to the battery.

Green wire to the distribution.

The 13 pin plug came pre wired but only has 12 wires in the flex.

Could the problem be that the flex is missing the 13th wire?

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Thanks for your replys.

In the van there are three power supplys.

Red wire to the fridge.

Blue wire to the battery.

Green wire to the distribution.

The 13 pin plug came pre wired but only has 12 wires in the flex.

Could the problem be that the flex is missing the 13th wire?

hi, sounds about right!! which one is missing!!!
forgetting the 7 wires for road lights for a minute, you should have :-
1. thin pink, (reversing lights)
2. thick orange, (charge circuit power)
3. thick grey, (fridge power)
4. thick white/black (earth return from fridge)
5, thick white/red (earth return from charge circuit)
6. thin blue/white, (spare aux wire used for sensing ATC)
let us know as there are ways around this problem without ditching the 12 core seeing as how the van as the old wiring spec.
ps. how does the connecton from lead to van terminate ie is it in a waterproof box or just a strip connector.

 

[Insuranceman]

Many thanks again for your asistance.

I have got round the problem by changing the cable to a 13 core and have used the extra core to give the three supplies.

I have plug the caravan into our car and the only thing that was not working was one brake light was not working but that could be a bulb or a bad earth.

I'll have a look at that tomorrow.

Again many thanks for help.

Regards

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

your welcome, if everything is working ok and your happy thats fine, job done. although changing the wire was a bit drastic. I did say there were alternatives given all the information, but hey it's working so it doesn't matter.

 

[johnandrew70]

Hi Colin
I went over to the van today and while there i thought i would trace the 2 cables back, I am glad i didnt decide to replace the 2 with 1 13 as i traced the wires back to 2 molex type plugs under the seats at the front of the van they plug into a distribution panel with relays on it, it would have been a nightmare changing all that.
I was expecting to see a cable connector with screw down terminals like they had on vans back in the 80s

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Hi Colin
I went over to the van today and while there i thought i would trace the 2 cables back, I am glad i didnt decide to replace the 2 with 1 13 as i traced the wires back to 2 molex type plugs under the seats at the front of the van they plug into a distribution panel with relays on it, it would have been a nightmare changing all that.
I was expecting to see a cable connector with screw down terminals like they had on vans back in the 80s

hi John,
I have got news for you up to the introduction of electronic panels they were still done that way! but the connector strips were in waterproof boxes,
one thing I have learned over the years is no problem is unsolveable, you just have to think outside the box, and use a bit of ingenuity,
for instance the wires that go into the molex plugs are the standard wires that come from the two plugs (12s&12n) and are no different from the 13 strand of the euro plug only the wiring colours are different.
once you know what these are cut the wires off the molex plug leaving 4in of wire sticking out (so you can see the wire colours) slide some shrink tube over the wire and then solder joint the right two coresponding wires together, and shrink the tube with a hairdrier, do this to all the wires in turn, depending on the age of the van you may have wires left over, (blue /white for ATC, if not fitted) and pink for reversing lights, (if not fitted) just cut these back and seal with a blank end. job done!!! that how I did mine exept that I have a auxilary circuit for some 12v plugs I used the blue /white wire to power these and on the car end connected the wire to pin 2 of the TEC3M split relay.

 

[johnandrew70]

Haha yes i know its pretty easy to cut the wires and put my own junction box in, i just thought the juction box might have already been there for easy replacement of the cable if ever it gets damaged, what do you use the 12v plugs for??
Our first caravan was an old 1986 Lunar Micron which i bought as a winter project i ended up re wiring the van it was a piece of cake but these new vans are way too complicated

John

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

, what do you use the 12v plugs for??
John

hi John,
anything that requires a 12v supply, inspection light, compressor, rear camera, ect ect, I have two under the van one each side, and one inside at the back of the van, it was far easier to wire these into an aux circuit run off the car plug than break into the vans 12v supply, which has only one outlet (for the tv) it is protected by a 15amp fuse, and being independant of the vans electrics does affect the vans 12v system.

 

[johnandrew70]

Very interesting idea, my last van had 12v and 240v in the wet locker (beats me why they were in a wet locker) our new van only has 240v which will be a pain when i want to plug my awning light in.but if i did it your way the socket will only work when the car is plugged in, i was wondering if there is any live feeds on the caravan plug when its not plugged in pin 9 for instance or do the relays cut it out, If there is i could buy a 13 pin socket and while my awning light into that.

When i wired the electrics on my passat i made the mistake of wiring the switched supply to the fusebox on the ignition feed which is heavy enough to take the supply i wanted, but it was when i tried to turn the engine off and take the key out i found i had a problem, Basically the caravan battery power was feeding back into the car and keeping the engine powered, as soon as i pulled the caravan plug out the engine stopped needless to say i had to wire it differently in the fusebox.

John

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

oh dear, we have all made mistakes John, I call it "electrical harmonics" dont know what the proffesonals call it, when a circuit is broken it automaticaly tries to find an alternate route, connecting the ignition to another power source, energises the system after the ignition switch, the point at which the power was cut, and reverse flows from the van battery to keep the system active, it is a similar thing to having a bad earth on a light cluster, when a blub is given power it cannot flow through the bad connection, so it seeks elsewhere to go to earth because all the other lights have a common ground it flows though the other bulbs back to thier souce and lights them all up christmas tree lights fashion,
you are correct in saying the van plug has to be fitted into the car socket for the plugs to work but this is no hardship as a simple lead made up to patch between car and van, is easy to make it only needs 2core wire to do it, of course you are running the sockets off the car battery and not the vans, but that is the point of the exersize,
I do not think your idea would work though as I am sure the charge circuit is cut once the van plug is disconnected, you could test it of course with a multimeter.

 

[johnandrew70]

I know what the proffesionals call it when things dont go right but its too rude to write here

, i think i might check out the plug on the caravan when i am over there, i keep a multimeter in the van anyway so no hardship.
Anyway i think the OP is all sorted so better leave this posting archive itself haha
Cheers colin i will let you know if pin 9 gives power from the van battery

John