Avondale Osprey front panel cracks

[Pelyma1]

I have followed the other posts regarding panel cracks in Avondale and Bailey vans. My parents have an Avondale Osprey which they bought new in April 2004. This has developed cracks at Christmas time in the front panel below the front lights. Unfortunately Avondale's warranty excludes panel cracks after one year and are refusing to honour any remedial work. Interestingly enough there is a 5 year water ingress cover!!! Having spoke to Trading Standards and the CC to ascertain this is not normal they have been advised to pursue the HP company under the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973.

So they now wait, having given a reasonable deadline for the repair to be made. Isn't it a shame that manufacturers don't do the sensible thing but make things get nasty. It was also disappointing to note that the dealer gave the wrong advice as to the remedy. Interestingly enough they acknowledged problems with the Dart and Land Ranger models

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

Hi Paul,

My commiserations to your parents with their problem. Avondale market the osprey as a club class van but you have to wonder what this means.

I have had two lots of grp cracking but mine was with the roof panel. The cracks are only in the gel coat and have been repaired so that you cant tell they were there.

I had mine repaired at the caravan hospital in South Wales and they seemed to have a lot of experience of this type of repair.

I note that Avondale have told you that the warranty only covers for the first year, My van was new in 2002 and the last lot of cracks were repaired under warranty just before Xmas, so the van was about three and a half years old.

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

Hi Paul,

My commiserations to your parents with their problem. Avondale market the osprey as a club class van but you have to wonder what this means.

I have had two lots of grp cracking but mine was with the roof panel. The cracks are only in the gel coat and have been repaired so that you cant tell they were there.

I had mine repaired at the caravan hospital in South Wales and they seemed to have a lot of experience of this type of repair.

I note that Avondale have told you that the warranty only covers for the first year, My van was new in 2002 and the last lot of cracks were repaired under warranty just before Xmas, so the van was about three and a half years old.

Sorry Paul, I wrote this suffering from old age and too much beer. The van was new in spring 2003 making it two and a half years old when the repairs were carried out.

Clive

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Paul,

I am sorry to read of your problem with the GRP. I have frequently pointed out on this forum, that the your warranty actually always rests with the seller ( with the exception of private sales) and end user should not get involved with the manufacturer. In your case the seller is actually the finance house, and that is why Trading Standards have pointed you in that direction.

It is my belief that the outer skin of a caravan should last a reasonable time which in my view should be at least 5 years. If it fails before then with normal usage, the product is not fit for purpose, and thus fails one of the sale of goods tests. The older it is the more difficult to prove though.

The rejection of goods is rather like a chain, and as the customer rejects it to the seller, so the seller in turn will reject it back to their supplier, and so on until it reaches the manufacture.

Sadly it is known fact that many customers will avoid complaining about minor defects in goods, and many warranty indemnity schemes rely on that aspect of human nature to turn a profit.

If customers complained properly about faulty goods, then ultimately pressure of the financial kind would be brought against manufactures to improve product quality. The caravan industry has for too long ignored the repetitive complaints of product failures and fails to address the issues properly through good design and manufacturing processes.

I wish you luck with your claim, and don't be afraid to keep trading standards informed of your progress. They can be a strong allie in these situations.

If customes were to complain about receiving faulty or substandard goods

If enough owners were to make the right noises to their sellers when things go wrong, the trail of complaints will reach back to teh

 

[sandra purdy]

Hi Paul

Sorry to hear about your parent's van, sorting the problem out with their dealer is the best option, we've had considerable probelms with Avondale vans and trying to sort anything out with them direct is an absolute waste of time, they just don't seam to be interested with after sales service.

As John pointed out the problem is the responsibilty of the seller and a van of that age should still be repaired under warrenty, I can't belive that any reputable dealer would refuse to repair such a probelm as they would just claim the repair costs back from Avondale.

In short ignore Avondale and go to back to the dealer.

 

[Pelyma1]

Hi It is the dealer who isn't being helpful and directed them to Avondale.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Paul,

Under UK law. the seller cannot ignore a fault with a product they sell. Ultimatley it is Avondales problem but as the end user you must press your claim through the seller. If the seller is not playing ball then Trading Standards should help.

I suggest that without any further ado contact Trading Standards for further guidance.

 

[Pelyma1]

Already done this and this is the action they have agreed.......we wait and see the response.

 

[samandkate]

Our Bailey Ranger 550/6 has has just been in for its 1st service. Was horrified when the dealer rang to tell me they had found a crack in the front panel which had subsequently let in some water.

The dealer advised that they are very busy with accident repairs and would not be able to fix the van for some time. They had already contacted Bailey who have agreed to replace the panel at their factory. The crack has been sealed and we are able to use the van at Easter. Bailey said that they would need the van for 3 weeks maximum (to allow for transportation to/from the dealer as well as the repair) and left it to us to decide when it should go in timed around holidays we have already booked. However they couldnt repair it immediately.

Consequently we will be without the van for the 3 weeks after easter. Its worrying when something like this happens, however on reflection the whole thing was arranged with two 5 min phone calls. In the cold light of day and after reading other postings on this forum it seems the situation could have been a lot worse.

 

[Pelyma1]

My parents have recieved a letter from the HP company to tell them that the supplying dealer in Kimberley has told them that the crack is in the gell coat and not a panel crack therefore only cosmetic. As such they are backing out of any obligation as they claim it is not substandard.

I'd really appreciate any views on a crack in gell coats and their severity to the caravan.

 

[cris_408518]

Not an expert on this fault but have worked with fibreglass.

I understand that gel goat finish gives the fibre galss a nice look but stops water absorbtion by the fibreglass. In fibreglass boats I think it is referred to as Osmosis(?) when gel coat has cracked and water has been absorbed by fibre glass that is not "water proof" without a Gel Or Flow coat wax finish. If the gel coat is "cracked" then I would say it is a fault and could cause problems later on, If the gel just has crazing that is cosmetic, but normally when quite old.

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

Hi Paul, The cracking I mentioned in my earlier post was gel coat cracking and as such was accepted by Avondale as covered by the warranty.

Speaking to the repairers they told me they drill a small hole at the end of the crack to stop it traveling further and then grind out each of the cracks down to the fibre layer. This is then refilled, rubbed down and finished with a spray coat. I really couldn't tell where the repair was.

It goes without saying that I am happy that in integrity of the van harmed by the repair.

 

[Pelyma1]

The pictures we sent the dealer are these:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/pelyma/crack1.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/pelyma/crack2.jpg
Hope this works! Do they look consistant with the other cracks mentioned. To me they look like the screws for the lights were not drilled right and maybe in the cold weather a bit of water has got in there and frozen. You start to question yourself after a while.

 

[Pelyma1]

Just checked it and it doesn't seem to work, they come up very small

 

[Julie_5040500]

Hi

I can't understand why these panels are not being repalced under warranty. We are having both front and back panels replaced in our 2004 Argente. You only have to look at this forum to know that Avondale have a problem with panels. We were told by our dealer that this as been happening since 2003.

 

[Pelyma1]

Julie the warranty only covers cracks in the first year unless there is water ingress!

As an update the HP company have said the cracks are cosmetic and unless they get an experts opinion otherwise they do not want to know.

The van is going back to the dealer on Monday when they will give their expert opinion. But as they told the HP company it was cosmetic in the first place I don't hold out much hope for my parents. The van is being serviced by the dealer to maintain the warranty and will mend the cracks for

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Paul,

I have viewed the photo's, and to my inexperienced eye, the cracks seem to be in line with the screw fixing points for the side lights. I have seen similar damage caused by someone over tightening the screws - which is a manufacturing fault.

The dealer might be right about the nature of the crack, but if you are not convinced then you are entitled to obtain a second opinion.

I am surprised that teh HP company did not ask for an independant review of the damage.

I would sugegst either another reputable caravan dealer or a boat builder.

Initially this would be at your own expence, but if the damage is more severe than the first dealer reported then you will have the expert report to badger the HP company.

Trad. stands/CAB again should advise in detail but you may have to threaten to sue in the small claims couurt for compensation to recover experts costs.

 

[Pelyma1]

An update

My parents are at the dealers today who are refusing to remove a light to look to see what is causing the cracks as it will disturb the seal. Further cracks have been found on the front panel, but I have not been able to ascertain where. The dealer says that the cracks are crazing and it is normal for GRP to do this, all Avondales do!

My understanding of crazing is a fine cobweb type pattern in the gel coat not single deep marks! The dealership in Kimberley Nottinghamshire seem to be washing their hands of it which is very worrying on a

 

[cris_408518]

The subtle touch ;-)

A few years ago a bank manager guy I knew had similar problems with a car, the dealer and manufacturer washed their hand of the ongoing problems!

He made some really nice banners to adorn the windows and sides of the car etc, and on the busiest day of the week he blocked the entrance of the dealers with the car on a trailer that his friend wheel locked along with the tow car.

With his borrowed rugby club loud hailer he called to any potential customer or passer buy how they would be treated, the garage called the Police and the guys friends called the local press!

There was a short stand off and the Police thought it was quite funny, the Garage management swiftly decided after 18 months that they would buy the car back at the purchase price and do him a deal on another model should he want one there and then!

I'm not sure who's driveway you block, but I would start with the dealers followed by Avondale factory ;-)

 

[cris_408518]

My postie has just delivered the 2006 Towsure Catalogue through the door 2 mins ago.

First thing I see is Avondale on the cover and a competition inside to win an Avondale. A call to Towsure amd Avondale management asking if it comes as a cracking fibre glass type and pointing out that supporting Avondale is not reccomended due to the press on the PC web site might stirr things along ;-)

Power to the people! RIGHT ON!

Avoid Towsure guys, they support Avondale will do Avondale no Harm I'm sure or Towsure :-0

No malice, just a lesson in quality control and customer relations by way of a freebie from all on the PC forum ;-)

Such spirited generosity is rare these days :-0

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

Following from Chris's post, why not cut and paste this topic to Avondale. Maybe they are not aware that their disappointed customers have a voice!

 

[Julie_5040500]

Following from Chris's post, why not cut and paste this topic to Avondale. Maybe they are not aware that their disappointed customers have a voice!

Hi

I posted in Sept about cracked panels in our Avondale Argente and also our floor had gone. The dealer was brilliant and argued over nothing, he as lost faith with Avondale and won't be selling them anymore. However our van went back to Avondale almost 7 weeks ago for a new floor we have not heard anything. I have rung the dealer and they are going to chase. When we get the van back the the dealer will be replacing the front and back panel and dealing with a list of bits and bobs as long as your arm. The fuse is waiting to blow, come on us Avondale owners why are we standing for this when we pay so much money for our vans, There is clearly a problem that need to be admitted. You only have to look at the forum. I have a friend that I pointed out crackeed panels too in her Avondale and she uses your dealer. Her caravan is I believe either 2003 or 2004 I will try and find out what they have said about her panels. It may be a while before I see her but I will keep you posted. We shi