Bailey Alu Tec

[kevrev219]

I have heard that the Alu Tec caravans my incure extra expence at servicing time, in that about every 3 years an extra service will be needed to re-torque the bolts that hold the body together, at a cost of about £300+. Has anyone else heard this rumour ? rev

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Rev,

I do not own a Bailey, but I do recall that when the new Alu-Tec models were introduced there was a lot of correspondence about this topic. From my recollection, you are correct regards the service schedule calling for a re-torque at the customers expense, But as the models have not reach three years yet, no-one has reported what the charge actually is.

I also recall that several people pointed out that some of the bolts are totally inaccessible behind shower and other fitments. Rather than rely on speculation, why not contact your Bailey dealer or the company and ask them the question - horses mouth etc.

 

[Damian]

It is quite clearly laid out in the Bailey information regarding the fixed price servicing on the Alu Tech range.
First year is (in round figures)£150
Second year £250
Third year £350
The third service does indeed involve removing various access trims and checking the bolt system. Those behind the all in one bathroom cubicle will not be checked, simply because it is impractical to remove the bathroom

 

[NickinFrance]

Those behind the all in one bathroom cubicle will not be checked, simply because it is impractical to remove the bathroom

Which makes the whole process rather pointless.

 

[Damian]

Don't tell me..........tell Bailey

 

[JTQ]

Those behind the all in one bathroom cubicle will not be checked, simply because it is impractical to remove the bathroom

Which makes the whole process rather pointless.

Not really as it is only a "check" to see if the bolting system needs a retightening; it is not in itself a retightening.
Bailey have stated on another forum that they intend to review the need for this year three "check" depending on the findings of vans with three years usage. Note also its not a recurring three yearly check.
I take the view that its a big step forward to actually be able to both check and if necessary retighten the major structural fixings in a caravan, something that is all but impossible in conventional vans where loosening and structural movement is far from unknown.

 

[GrahamDerby]

My wife and myself looked at the Bailey range last year and by the sounds of it im glad we chose another make. It sounds to me that Bailey dont have 100% confidence in he van holding together and once again the customer is having to pay for it. £350 in the 3rd year plus a service makes an expencive year.

 

[MichaelE]

And if you dont have the service done there goes your 10 year warranty,Bailey service centres must be rubbing there hands with promise of work for the few years.

 

[NickinFrance]

Not really as it is only a "check" to see if the bolting system needs a retightening; it is not in itself a retightening.

So the retightening is charged extra ?
Only checking part of of the ststem is rather like a MoT tester only checking 3 tyres on a car.

 

[xtrailman]

Those behind the all in one bathroom cubicle will not be checked, simply because it is impractical to remove the bathroom

Which makes the whole process rather pointless.

If you look at the unicorn shower you will note the lack of sealing to the base, the shower is not sealed, the walls are in turn screwed to the outer wall, and covered with plastic caps.

I believe this now makes the shower "bolts" accessible?

 

[JTQ]

It sounds to me that Bailey dont have 100% confidence in he van holding together and once again the customer is having to pay for it. £350 in the 3rd year plus a service makes an expencive year.

My understanding is the thrid year inclusive price is £350 ; service and bolt check.
Whilst they have not told me I would expect if any are found to be "loose" then they will be tightened at no extra cost.

 

[Damian]

Quote "£350 in the 3rd year plus a service makes an expencive year."

Here we go again,,,,,,people putting their "thoughts" as fact, and getting it wrong.

The yearly charges associated with the Alu Tech range is for the Annual Service.
The third year service is just that, an Annual Service as in year1 & 2 with the bolt torque checks INCLUDED in that price.

 

[Afyfe]

There are various techniques used in undustry to prevent nuts/bolts slackening and I can't see any reason not use one of them in this application.
Seems to me to be a money generating scheme or even worse a badly thought out idea.
Not familiar with the Bailey alu tec caravans but it doesn't seem to be a dificult job to check the tighhtnees of a bolt/nut with a torque wrench.
Maybe the nuts/bolts are purposely inaccessible and you need to tear evrything out to get access or maybe there are 10000 of them to check!

 

[JTQ]

There are various techniques used in undustry to prevent nuts/bolts slackening and I can't see any reason not use one of them in this application.
Seems to me to be a money generating scheme or even worse a badly thought out idea.
Not familiar with the Bailey alu tec caravans but it doesn't seem to be a dificult job to check the tighhtnees of a bolt/nut with a torque wrench.
Maybe the nuts/bolts are purposely inaccessible and you need to tear evrything out to get access or maybe there are 10000 of them to check!

I doubt if the bolt tightness check is anything to do with the bolts themselves slackening; that as you say is easy to address, Locktite being one of many ways to simply cure that. I am sure its much more to do with relaxing of the structure, sealant and the substrate under the clamps, This is much the same as convention vans work loose but with them nothing short of a massive rebuild can correct it and so the sealant is prone to fail from the flexing.

I would not share your view that it’s a “money-generating scheme”. Those that understand the issues with conventional builds will see this more a huge plus with the potential of saving you money from the rebuild or write-off cost of damp ingress with those conventionally built vans.

Clearly, as you admit you are not familiar with the Bailey Alu-Tech you are critically commenting on. The bolts are neither difficult to access or to tighten with the exception of those behind the moulded shower wall and there are nothing remotely like “ten thousand” of them; think more of a few tens.

 

[TopCat1]

An interesting point JQT. I must ask a question regarding your last point I quote.
"The bolts are neither difficult to access or to tighten with the exception of those behind the moulded shower wall and there are nothing remotely like “ten thousand” of them; think more of a few tens."
If this is the case, and I have no reason to doubt you, Why is the additional charge £100.00? How long can it take to carry out this check?
It certainly gives the appearance of a money making exercise for the dealer or an extreemly high labour rate for the task. Which I suppose ammounts to the same thing!!!

 

[JTQ]

Why is the additional charge £100.00? How long can it take to carry out this check?
It certainly gives the appearance of a money making exercise for the dealer or an extreemly high labour rate for the task. Which I suppose ammounts to the same thing!!!

I don’t know how long it is scheduled to take. However thinking it out there is: getting a job sheet, collecting and placing dust sheets etc, removing the various covering pieces, torque checking the say 30 odd bolts, logging the results, replace the covers, clean up and report back to the supervisor must be of the order of an hour of a qualified tradesman’s time? That’s one bolt every two minutes including all the initial and individual bolt preps and tidying up, doing documentation etc. We are not talking a difficult task but one that is inevitably time consuming.
This at the overhead rates any accredited agent is likely to have, with staff certification, training, reception staff and customer area, appropriate buildings, customer loo, coffee machine and all we expect of a professional business, plus a profit element then its not hard for the price to get to £100 without realistically a hint of exploitation.
Clearly a self-employed trader with little else than a van, mobile, insurance and a few certificates of competency ought to be cheaper if there is one near enough that Bailey trust for this work.

 

[parker1158]

I guess the thing that worry me would be if during the tightening up some of the fixings were found to be loose, this would by necessity warrant the removal of the shower cubicle to check that fixing – so who would have to pay the extra? The customer presumably.

 

[Damian]

As none of the Alu Tech range are anywhere near 3 years old, all the suggestions are purely hypothetical.
If during the year 3 service any fixings are found to have become loose, this would point to a flaw in the manufacture, and therefore it will be covered under warranty.

 

[JTQ]

I guess the thing that worry me would be if during the tightening up some of the fixings were found to be loose, this would by necessity warrant the removal of the shower cubicle to check that fixing – so who would have to pay the extra? The customer presumably.

I would agree that if some [plural] had slackened then it would require a much greater investigation including those behind the shower. I would be very annoyed if anyone treated that work as chargable because in my book anything more than the "check" is a warranty issue.

 

[GrahamDerby]

An interesting point JQT. I must ask a question regarding your last point I quote.
"The bolts are neither difficult to access or to tighten with the exception of those behind the moulded shower wall and there are nothing remotely like “ten thousand” of them; think more of a few tens."
If this is the case, and I have no reason to doubt you, Why is the additional charge £100.00? How long can it take to carry out this check?
It certainly gives the appearance of a money making exercise for the dealer or an extreemly high labour rate for the task. Which I suppose ammounts to the same thing!!!

Well said Top Cat, as long as we are prepared to pay the astronomic prices charged by the leasure industry they will keep doing it.

 

[Royston]

Have you Guys seen the new vans assembled on the Baileys films shown on the caravan channel web site, watching it would appear the nuts are tightened by hand held appliances that are battery driven, I trust and hope that thay have a torque application , that applies the correct torque when applied.
I would have thought that the first service would carry out this checking of the nuts free, because any incorrectly torqued nut would be discovered prior to any damaged incurred .
As for the rear bathrooms the nuts being unable to be checked, without removing the internal trim, why not have the bolt head recessed internally in a locked position and access to the nut from the outside.
Having purchased a van that the rear panel failed within 2 years,I lost faith in the old design, believe me my local dealer has been kept very busy repairing the same design with front and rear panels having cracks within the panels .

 

[Damian]

Quote " I trust and hope that thay have a torque application , that applies the correct torque when applied."

Yes they do,thats why they use them, to ensure the correct torque is applied to every bolt.

 

[Dustydog]

All the negative comments here assume the nuts will come loose.. How negative can we get?
In engineering terms I suspect Bailey know dam well the chances of any fixings slackening off are pretty remote. Even Al-ko know about "one shot " hub nuts.
The 10 year water ingress guarantee speaks for itself. Of course it would be foolish not to check the torques regularly but I suspect in a few years time such checks will become redundant as demonstrable evidence proves the "nuts bolts" do not loosen.
Loctite ? very good , yes . But there are even more production friendly locking systems available today.

Maybe Bailey will be kind enough to offer a more comprehensive expalnation on here ? No one really seems to know exactly , technically , how then fixings work.

 

[TopCat1]

I must assume the you work for the caravan industry JTQ. I work in the motor industry and see labour rates of £100.00 per hour as a little more justified. After all franchised car dealers must now invest at least £50,000 in diagnostic equiptment, another similar ammount on 4 wheel alignment equiptment, comply with all of the training requirements of manufacturers for training on engines, transmissions electrics at aircraft technical levels ECU's MMI,s etc. Where can you come anywhere that level of investment in the caravan industy?

 

[Damian]

Quote "and see labour rates of £100.00 per hour as a little more justified"

I would like to know where the £100 per hour labour rates come from in relation to the caravan industry????
Who has said it takes an hour to check the bolts?
As far as I am aware it takes considerably more than that, but will know exactly how long later in the year.

There are a whole load of assumptions being bandied around, all of which have no solid foundation and are purely speculative.