Best time to buy? +general advice

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With my present Coachman, on year 3 I found a crack on the rear panel. found the dealer has closed. contacted Coachman in Hull, they said go to your closest dealer. Northampton and Bister didn't want to know.

Direct Leisure repairs , were fantastic, they could replace the rear panel, photos only required, they requested warranty repair, fully agreed. In the end Coachman wanted the van back to investigate the cause of the crack. Awning rail not pilot drilled, verbal confirmation only.

Fully recommend DLR. Fantastic people.
Thank you - this is useful as we are not far from here too
 
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Redelf.

I will be interested in Coachman’s response regarding purchasing a nearly new van from a non franchised dealer and how warrantee issues, (if any), would be dealt with.

Please keep us updated.

John
 
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Aren't they one of those "we buy any caravan" companies.

I think that some infringements of CRA 2015 could be construed as a criminal offence and they are those that Trading Standards may pursue. Others are civil in nature. Example a friend of mine bought a motorhome and it started to show damp. The supplying dealer attempted two repairs but they were not successful. Despite my advice wrt CRA 20015 my friend decided to use a legal helpline on his home policy. He contacted Trading Standard who advised that the dispute between him and the dealership should be resolved via the Small Claims Court or. Civil Court if above the SCC limit. Because it was becoming protracted process he had the MH repaired by a company used by some on this Forum....cost circa £10k. He then sued the Dealership but before the matter came to court he reached an out of court settlement without liability, and substantially out of pocket, but at least he got closure.
By the same token then all legislation would be referred to a civil court? I am only going b y what Trading Standards told me. However this is wandering from the thrust of the thread.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Aren't they one of those "we buy any caravan" companies.


By the same token then all legislation would be referred to a civil court? I am only going b y what Trading Standards told me. However this is wandering from the thrust of the thread.
No; you are making a sweeping generalisation, when the context being discussed is CRA2015.
 
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Off topic slightly but relevant to CRA 2015 the following will help. An enforcer is HMG., the Crown.

When there is a breach or potential breach of consumer law, the measures available to public enforcers are limited and there is a lack of flexibility in the ways that they can achieve better outcomes for consumers and compliant businesses. The main formal sanction is a criminal prosecution of the trader by an enforcer.
 
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Off topic slightly but relevant to CRA 2015 the following will help. An enforcer is HMG., the Crown.

When there is a breach or potential breach of consumer law, the measures available to public enforcers are limited and there is a lack of flexibility in the ways that they can achieve better outcomes for consumers and compliant businesses. The main formal sanction is a criminal prosecution of the trader by an enforcer.
HMG cannot be an Enforcer given the Executive, Legislative and Judiciary are separate in U.K.

Where did your para 2 come from?
 
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Response from Coachman.


Hello,

Servicing and warranty work can be carried out by any Coachman dealer or service agent who is part of the AWS (Approved Workshop Scheme) however you will have to speak to them directly to book etc.

Details of our dealers can be found on our website and service agents can be found on the AWS website.

If your dealer is stating they cannot do warranty work I would assume that is because they are not either of the above.

Best wishes.”

I am asking for clarity around the obligation of the coachman dealers. Ie do I have to pay for someone to diagnose a warranty fault if it arises outside of a service or will they look at it for us for free? And are they obligated to do so as Coachman dealers?

Question for you guys - even if we bought from coachman, would we have to pay for diagnosis regardless and if it is a warranty claim that money would be reimbursed?
 
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Response from Coachman.


Hello,

Servicing and warranty work can be carried out by any Coachman dealer or service agent who is part of the AWS (Approved Workshop Scheme) however you will have to speak to them directly to book etc.

Details of our dealers can be found on our website and service agents can be found on the AWS website.

If your dealer is stating they cannot do warranty work I would assume that is because they are not either of the above.

Best wishes.”

I am asking for clarity around the obligation of the coachman dealers. Ie do I have to pay for someone to diagnose a warranty fault if it arises outside of a service or will they look at it for us for free? And are they obligated to do so as Coachman dealers?

Question for you guys - even if we bought from coachman, would we have to pay for diagnosis regardless and if it is a warranty claim that money would be reimbursed?
Coachman dealers have no obligation to do any warranty work as you never bought from them. You may struggle to find even an AWS that will do warranty work. The reason is because Coachman pay them a lower labour rate than they would normally charge.

Why not contact Coachman dealers and ask if they will do warranty work on a caravan that was not bought from them and same for AWS technicians. It can be a minefield however under CRA 2015 the selling dealer is obliged to rectify any issues for up to6 years as explained in an earlier post. It is NOT your responsibility to run around trying to find a Coachman dealer to do warranty work.
 
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Response from Coachman.


Hello,

Servicing and warranty work can be carried out by any Coachman dealer or service agent who is part of the AWS (Approved Workshop Scheme) however you will have to speak to them directly to book etc.

Details of our dealers can be found on our website and service agents can be found on the AWS website.

If your dealer is stating they cannot do warranty work I would assume that is because they are not either of the above.

Best wishes.”

I am asking for clarity around the obligation of the coachman dealers. Ie do I have to pay for someone to diagnose a warranty fault if it arises outside of a service or will they look at it for us for free? And are they obligated to do so as Coachman dealers?

Question for you guys - even if we bought from coachman, would we have to pay for diagnosis regardless and if it is a warranty claim that money would be reimbursed?
So as we thought, warrantee work CAN be done by others that are AWS qualified. But the question is, will thay. I cannot see that they are under any obligation to do so. If they have more profitable work to do, why should thay.

From that reply. It sounds like your possible supplying dealer would be able to do warrantee work if the hold AWS, which they should do if they have a service department. Suggest you show them that reply and ask them.

Regarding what is warrantee work. This is usually obvious in that something has failed or damp levels are risen.

John
 
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Coachman dealers have no obligation to do any warranty work as you never bought from them. You may struggle to find even an AWS that will do warranty work. The reason is because Coachman pay them a lower labour rate than they would normally charge.

Why not contact Coachman dealers and ask if they will do warranty work on a caravan that was not bought from them and same for AWS technicians. It can be a minefield however under CRA 2015 the selling dealer is obliged to rectify any issues for up to6 years as explained in an earlier post. It is NOT your responsibility to run around trying to find a Coachman dealer to do warranty work.
6 years? Or 6 months? I think the previous comment in here said 6 months…
 
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6 years? Or 6 months? I think the previous comment in here said 6 months…
It is 6 years, but after the first 6 months it is up to the consumer to prove the fault existed at time of purchase. We were able to do this in year 5 with a repair that would have cost us over £9000.
 
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It is 6 years, but after the first 6 months it is up to the consumer to prove the fault existed at time of purchase. We were able to do this in year 5 with a repair that would have cost us
Ok - understood - thanks.

So I contacted a local AWS approved engineer who has confirmed that actually in this scenario it’s the original supplying dealer who is the one that has to help us for any warranty claims. So we’d have to go back to whoever sold it brand new. Which is fine - not ideal as I think they’re a way away from us but at least it’s not impossible.
 
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Ok - understood - thanks.

So I contacted a local AWS approved engineer who has confirmed that actually in this scenario it’s the original supplying dealer who is the one that has to help us for any warranty claims. So we’d have to go back to whoever sold it brand new. Which is fine - not ideal as I think they’re a way away from us but at least it’s not impossible.
That's not true - it's the dealer you bought from that has the liability under CRA2015.
 
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Ok - understood - thanks.

So I contacted a local AWS approved engineer who has confirmed that actually in this scenario it’s the original supplying dealer who is the one that has to help us for any warranty claims. So we’d have to go back to whoever sold it brand new. Which is fine - not ideal as I think they’re a way away from us but at least it’s not impossible.
Another question for Coachman I think. In my opinion. This uncertainty is a failure of the caravan industry as a whole. Not just Coachman.

I don’t think you have been provided with certainty from either your local franchised dealer, your possible supplier, or Coachman themselves.

I would think that, if the local dealer really wants a sale, they should clearly specify, in writing, where you would stand in the case of a Warrantee claim.

The way I see it. There is a supplier Warrantee. Perhaps 6 months or a year. This should be clear.

There is a manufacturers warrantee, and this is where clarity is needed, imho.

Then there is CRA. I would not concern myself with that. Good as it is, it is a fallback if things go wrong. Getting a black and white agreement with your supplier can help reduce such risks.

John
 
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That's not true - it's the dealer you bought from that has the liability under CRA2015.
You are correct regarding your statuary rights. But in the first instance the supplier and, in particular, the manufacturer warrantee that is in question.

If defects are handled responsibly under either warrantee, then the CRA has no need to be brought into action. It is not designed to replace warrantees.


John
 
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The warranty is between the supplier and the original owner and not the new owner unless they are able to transfer the warranty. I think that Redelf has already checked with Coachman direct to see if they can transfer the warranty?
 
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The warranty is between the supplier and the original owner and not the new owner unless they are able to transfer the warranty. I think that Redelf has already checked with Coachman direct to see if they can transfer the warranty?
Yes. We will get the warranty transferred. Any issues there and we will be giving the van back.
 
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Yes. We will get the warranty transferred. Any issues there and we will be giving the van back.
So here’s a message from coachman today after I asked for more info on who is obligated to help…

“Any AWS engineer can do warranty work buts it’s whether they want to/can accommodate it.

The original contract of sale when purchased new would have been with the customer and the supplying dealer, the obligation to do warranty work is within that contract of sale.

Our dealers are all independent businesses and are not obliged to carry out warranty work on a vehicle that they have not supplied, some may be willing to but others may be unable to accommodate it.

I would recommend you call some local Coachman dealers to better understand their position on the matter.”

So there we go. The warranty on a used van bought from a non-dealer, even if manufacturer warranty is transferred to new owner, is essentially worthless because nobody is obligated to fix any issue that occurs!

I am still trying to work out what I’m supposed to do now. We really want this van but this situation is stupid.
 
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HMG cannot be an Enforcer given the Executive, Legislative and Judiciary are separate in U.K.

Where did your para 2 come from?
I disagree . Call it the Crown Prosecution Service who act on the part of the Statute or Government.

The Law Society and indeed the same is true of my old study books
 
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So here’s a message from coachman today after I asked for more info on who is obligated to help…

“Any AWS engineer can do warranty work buts it’s whether they want to/can accommodate it.

The original contract of sale when purchased new would have been with the customer and the supplying dealer, the obligation to do warranty work is within that contract of sale.

Our dealers are all independent businesses and are not obliged to carry out warranty work on a vehicle that they have not supplied, some may be willing to but others may be unable to accommodate it.

I would recommend you call some local Coachman dealers to better understand their position on the matter.”

So there we go. The warranty on a used van bought from a non-dealer, even if manufacturer warranty is transferred to new owner, is essentially worthless because nobody is obligated to fix any issue that occurs!

I am still trying to work out what I’m supposed to do now. We really want this van but this situation is stupid.
The situation in English Law is clear. Responsibility for defects discovered within the CRA timescale rests with the dealer from whom you purchased.
 
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I disagree . Call it the Crown Prosecution Service who act on the part of the Statute or Government.

The Law Society and indeed the same is true of my old study books
Sorry but I disagree. CPS may get funding from the Government but it acts independently.


“The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) prosecutes criminal cases that have been investigated by the police and other investigative organisations in England and Wales. The CPS is independent, and we make our decisions independently of the police and government.”
 
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So here’s a message from coachman today after I asked for more info on who is obligated to help…

“Any AWS engineer can do warranty work buts it’s whether they want to/can accommodate it.

The original contract of sale when purchased new would have been with the customer and the supplying dealer, the obligation to do warranty work is within that contract of sale.

Our dealers are all independent businesses and are not obliged to carry out warranty work on a vehicle that they have not supplied, some may be willing to but others may be unable to accommodate it.

I would recommend you call some local Coachman dealers to better understand their position on the matter.”

So there we go. The warranty on a used van bought from a non-dealer, even if manufacturer warranty is transferred to new owner, is essentially worthless because nobody is obligated to fix any issue that occurs!

I am still trying to work out what I’m supposed to do now. We really want this van but this situation is stupid.
You have fought for the information. And I agree with your conclusions. As I stated earlier, the situation regarding manufacturers warrantees is pretty hopeless.

The supplying dealer, assuming they are AWS approved, could, if they so wished, provide you with a written confirmation that they are willing to undertake any work and deal with Coachman. But I think they have already suggested that they are not interested.

Another possibility for the OP is to ask the franchised dealer if they could purchase the van from the non franchised dealer, at trade price. Then sell it to the OP with full warrantee.

I do feel that the discussion re CRA is muddying the waters with regard to the issues facing the OP.

John
 

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