Best tow car (again - sorry!)

[Marie_374225476]

My head is ready to expode (or I will just give up caravanning altogether!!)

We've been towing for @ 4 years. The original car was a Vauxhall Frontera. We didn't give it much though as to whether it would tow our Swift Challenger 500SE (@1340kg ladened) but it did ok (but didn't like hills).

We had to part ex it in a hurry and ended up with a Ford Mondeo Zetec 1.8. The Caravan Club computer said no it wouldn't tow safely.

So what will? My boyfriend is driving me mad with options, but now I know how to do the maths (using a combination of the Caravan Club and the what tow car site) we aren't left with much as far as a 'car' is concerned (we would rather not go back to a 4x4 as we can get newer and more for our money in a car).

So....85% kerb weight of the car is a guide, I understand that. But how much can you ignore it? My main concern is if we have an accident could the insurance company refuse to pay if our caravan wasn't exactly 85% of the car kerb weight?

We are currently looking at a Vauxhall Vectra estate.

Any thoughts??

Thanks.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Marie,

Lets consider the 85% You are probably aware from the previous posts on this and other forums, the 85% figure is guideline suggested by some parts of the caravan towing industry. It has no basis in law.

The actual maximum towing limit is defined by vehicle manufacturer. As you are aware that limit changes from vehicle to vehicle so you must check the details for your particular chosen tug. For some people who took their basic driving test after Jan 1997, the limit is restricted to a maximum 100% unless you pass the extension trailer test.

Though I consistently plug the above, I do agree that the lower the ratio the greater the chance that an outfit will be manageable. 85% is a sensible ratio especially for inexperienced towers.

Regardless of the limits set by the manufacturer or by a limitation on your driving licence, you are obliged to maintain the outfit in a roadworthy condition. The following assumes you comply with the above:-

If an insurance company wished to apply a ratio limit to a policy it must form part of the schedule and be included in the policy details to which you have agreed.

If they wish to introduce a ratio limit or any other change or limitation after the policy has been enacted, then they must advise the policyholder in writing. That is why it is important to read any amendments the company sends you. They can impose changes without your consent, but they cannot make them retrospective.

Heaven forbid that you have an incident, but provided you are within the legal ratio limits and the outfit is roadworthy, the insurers could not decline a claim if your outfit was greater than 85%. If they tried to then a good lawyer would have a field day. You must of course inform your insurers that you do tow.

Now what is safe? That is difficult to answer, but even though the Frontera may have struggled in the power department, it probably handled the caravan quite well. Power and acceleration are not the most important aspects of controllability, but handling, overtaking or being overtaken, and of course stopping are far more important.

The Vauhall Vectra has many variants, and some models have gained a very good reputation with regards to towing. Hopefully someone who has used one will be able to offer some informed advice to you.

 

[joeby]

Why dont you try the Mondeo Estate 130 TDCI with a kerb weight of 1564 ,and your van weighing in at 1340 there's a near enough match of 85.5% and the TDCI loves hills

 

[Marie_374225476]

Hello Marie,

Lets consider the 85% You are probably aware from the previous posts on this and other forums, the 85% figure is guideline suggested by some parts of the caravan towing industry. It has no basis in law.

The actual maximum towing limit is defined by vehicle manufacturer. As you are aware that limit changes from vehicle to vehicle so you must check the details for your particular chosen tug. For some people who took their basic driving test after Jan 1997, the limit is restricted to a maximum 100% unless you pass the extension trailer test.

Though I consistently plug the above, I do agree that the lower the ratio the greater the chance that an outfit will be manageable. 85% is a sensible ratio especially for inexperienced towers.

Regardless of the limits set by the manufacturer or by a limitation on your driving licence, you are obliged to maintain the outfit in a roadworthy condition. The following assumes you comply with the above:-

If an insurance company wished to apply a ratio limit to a policy it must form part of the schedule and be included in the policy details to which you have agreed.

If they wish to introduce a ratio limit or any other change or limitation after the policy has been enacted, then they must advise the policyholder in writing. That is why it is important to read any amendments the company sends you. They can impose changes without your consent, but they cannot make them retrospective.

Heaven forbid that you have an incident, but provided you are within the legal ratio limits and the outfit is roadworthy, the insurers could not decline a claim if your outfit was greater than 85%. If they tried to then a good lawyer would have a field day. You must of course inform your insurers that you do tow.

Now what is safe? That is difficult to answer, but even though the Frontera may have struggled in the power department, it probably handled the caravan quite well. Power and acceleration are not the most important aspects of controllability, but handling, overtaking or being overtaken, and of course stopping are far more important.

The Vauhall Vectra has many variants, and some models have gained a very good reputation with regards to towing. Hopefully someone who has used one will be able to offer some informed advice to you.

That's really helpful thanks.

 

[Marie_374225476]

Why dont you try the Mondeo Estate 130 TDCI with a kerb weight of 1564 ,and your van weighing in at 1340 there's a near enough match of 85.5% and the TDCI loves hills

That's helpful thanks. I think my main problem may be when I use the 'what tow car website' I may be selecting the wrong model for the car (and the swift challemger weight comes up at 1400 +), I obviously need to change these figures manually.

 

[tjambarker]

The waffle below is the result of reflecting on the car/caravan combinations I have used after a recent change to a Freelander. Over the last 5 years I have towed 3 caravans with 6 different cars that I have owned or borrowed. They may be of some use to you!!!

MTPLM Kerbweight Ratio Engine Stabiliser Comment

1000kg 1200kg 83% 1.8 petrol Leaf Handling twitchy, poor engine performance

1000kg 1360kg 74% 2.0 petrol Leaf Much better handling, reasonable engine

performance

1000kg 1485kg 67% 2.4 petrol Leaf Excellent handling, brilliant engine

performance

1000kg 1495kg 67% 2.0 diesel Leaf Excellent handling, brilliant engine

performance

1300kg 1495kg 87% 2.0 diesel aks1300 V.Good handling, very good engine

performance

1300kg 2150kg 60% 2.5 diesel aks1300 Good handling, good engine performance

1340kg 1495kg 90% 2.0 diesel aks2400 Twitchy handling, very good engine

performance

1340kg 1619kg 83% 2.0 diesel aks2400 Very good handling, very good engine

performance

The six cars are/were:

1998 1.8 gdi Mitsubishi Carisma (124bhp)

1999 2.0 Peugeot 406 Saloon (137bhp)

1999 2.4 V70 Volvo (170bhp)

2001 2.0 Ford Mondeo Hatch TDDi (115bhp)

1996 2.5 Landrover Discovery (???bhp)

2003 2.0 Landrover Freelander (110bhp)

These are the observations that I have made.

Stability

Looking at the 1000kg Caravan (ABI Marauder) as the ratio went down the handling definitely got better. This weight ratio and handling point is further re-enforced when I used the same car to tow a further two different caravans 1300kg (Elddis Typhoon) and 1340kg (Abbey Aventura). The difference in handling between the vans was significant! As the weight of the caravans increased then the handling tailed off. Some might say that this could be a function all sorts of other dynamics of the caravans and that is an undeniable fact. Nevertheless, my confidence in the towing of the Abbey has now been restored by the use of the 1619kg Freelander as a tow vehicle. One point that I would include here is the one of nose weight. The optimum nose weight for the Abbey is 94kg, the Elddis was 91kg and the Marauder was 70kg. The nose weight limit on the Mondeo is 75kg and the Freelander is 140kg. Clearly when I used the Mondeo to tow the Abbey it was nearly 20kg below the optimum nose weight capacity and the handling got very twitchy. Now using the Freelander I can load to the optimum nose weight figure and the Abbey tows superbly as a result. I think the nose weight clearly influences the towing characteristics and I certainly now believe this factor should not be underestimated when deciding on the tow vehicle.

Do I think the stabiliser had any effect on the stability? Not significantly. I'm sure they help, but if the rig is fundamentally flawed then I personally don't think they are going to make an awful lot of difference. As can be seen from the table above I've used 3 different stabiliser types and every time the rig was less than optimally configured the stability was compromised.

Engine/Fuels

The engine/fuel question, I think, is much more clear cut. If you want to tow with a petrol engine then it has to be at least 2ltr for a caravan of any size and personally I wouldn't consider any petrol engine below 2.4/2.5ltr. I have to concede that, for me, diesel would be the engine of choice for caravan owners. The difference in towing performance over the smaller petrol engines is vast and comparable, in towing terms, with the larger ones. Where, in my opinion, the diesel engines might lose an argument is in their solo performance. Nevertheless, the modern diesel is so good these days I'm not sure, other than speed freak type performance, that they really lose out on this argument; my Mondeo was superb.

Conclusion

Am I saying everyone who tows should drive massive 6 cylinder diesel 4x4's? No! I thought the early Discovery I used was a dreadful vehicle; although it towed OK it handled so badly solo I wouldn't entertain one of this vintage. What I am saying is that everything is a question of compromise. At the end of the day individuals need to decide what parameter they are prepared to compromise on. As can be seen I've tried numerous combinations now and I can confidently say that as long as the weight ratio and nose weight are within reasonable limits then you'll have a stable outfit. The Mondeo hatch worked well both solo and towing about 1300kgs. The petrol Volvo was likewise a very good towcar and a delight solo.

What I did

The main problem for me personally in my recent quest for a new vehicle was finding a vehicle with a high enough nose weight and kerbweight capacity to suit my current 1340kg Abbey. I decided that a large capacity petrol was out (and I really did fancy a Jaguar X-Type). What was left? I could have tried the TDCi Mondeo estate, but I did have a bad experience with mechanical breakdowns with mine so didn't fancy another. I tried to find a Diesel V70 or BMW 320d, but couldn't find one with sensible miles on for the money I could afford and besides the nose weight capacity wasn't that great. Every time I considered a car I came back to a 4x4 despite not really liking them - and yes I did consider a people carrier briefly! So for me the TD4 ticked all the boxes. I know they've got their own reputation and quirks, but I've lived with mine for a week now and I've started too really like it. Solo it's not in the same league as the Mondeo, but it isn't that bad. The Freelander does, however, tow the caravan brilliantly and that ultimately is the main thing the vehicle must do for me.

 

[Marie_374225476]

The waffle below is the result of reflecting on the car/caravan combinations I have used after a recent change to a Freelander. Over the last 5 years I have towed 3 caravans with 6 different cars that I have owned or borrowed. They may be of some use to you!!!

MTPLM Kerbweight Ratio Engine Stabiliser Comment

1000kg 1200kg 83% 1.8 petrol Leaf Handling twitchy, poor engine performance

1000kg 1360kg 74% 2.0 petrol Leaf Much better handling, reasonable engine

performance

1000kg 1485kg 67% 2.4 petrol Leaf Excellent handling, brilliant engine

performance

1000kg 1495kg 67% 2.0 diesel Leaf Excellent handling, brilliant engine

performance

1300kg 1495kg 87% 2.0 diesel aks1300 V.Good handling, very good engine

performance

1300kg 2150kg 60% 2.5 diesel aks1300 Good handling, good engine performance

1340kg 1495kg 90% 2.0 diesel aks2400 Twitchy handling, very good engine

performance

1340kg 1619kg 83% 2.0 diesel aks2400 Very good handling, very good engine

performance

The six cars are/were:

1998 1.8 gdi Mitsubishi Carisma (124bhp)

1999 2.0 Peugeot 406 Saloon (137bhp)

1999 2.4 V70 Volvo (170bhp)

2001 2.0 Ford Mondeo Hatch TDDi (115bhp)

1996 2.5 Landrover Discovery (???bhp)

2003 2.0 Landrover Freelander (110bhp)

These are the observations that I have made.

Stability

Looking at the 1000kg Caravan (ABI Marauder) as the ratio went down the handling definitely got better. This weight ratio and handling point is further re-enforced when I used the same car to tow a further two different caravans 1300kg (Elddis Typhoon) and 1340kg (Abbey Aventura). The difference in handling between the vans was significant! As the weight of the caravans increased then the handling tailed off. Some might say that this could be a function all sorts of other dynamics of the caravans and that is an undeniable fact. Nevertheless, my confidence in the towing of the Abbey has now been restored by the use of the 1619kg Freelander as a tow vehicle. One point that I would include here is the one of nose weight. The optimum nose weight for the Abbey is 94kg, the Elddis was 91kg and the Marauder was 70kg. The nose weight limit on the Mondeo is 75kg and the Freelander is 140kg. Clearly when I used the Mondeo to tow the Abbey it was nearly 20kg below the optimum nose weight capacity and the handling got very twitchy. Now using the Freelander I can load to the optimum nose weight figure and the Abbey tows superbly as a result. I think the nose weight clearly influences the towing characteristics and I certainly now believe this factor should not be underestimated when deciding on the tow vehicle.

Do I think the stabiliser had any effect on the stability? Not significantly. I'm sure they help, but if the rig is fundamentally flawed then I personally don't think they are going to make an awful lot of difference. As can be seen from the table above I've used 3 different stabiliser types and every time the rig was less than optimally configured the stability was compromised.

Engine/Fuels

The engine/fuel question, I think, is much more clear cut. If you want to tow with a petrol engine then it has to be at least 2ltr for a caravan of any size and personally I wouldn't consider any petrol engine below 2.4/2.5ltr. I have to concede that, for me, diesel would be the engine of choice for caravan owners. The difference in towing performance over the smaller petrol engines is vast and comparable, in towing terms, with the larger ones. Where, in my opinion, the diesel engines might lose an argument is in their solo performance. Nevertheless, the modern diesel is so good these days I'm not sure, other than speed freak type performance, that they really lose out on this argument; my Mondeo was superb.

Conclusion

Am I saying everyone who tows should drive massive 6 cylinder diesel 4x4's? No! I thought the early Discovery I used was a dreadful vehicle; although it towed OK it handled so badly solo I wouldn't entertain one of this vintage. What I am saying is that everything is a question of compromise. At the end of the day individuals need to decide what parameter they are prepared to compromise on. As can be seen I've tried numerous combinations now and I can confidently say that as long as the weight ratio and nose weight are within reasonable limits then you'll have a stable outfit. The Mondeo hatch worked well both solo and towing about 1300kgs. The petrol Volvo was likewise a very good towcar and a delight solo.

What I did

The main problem for me personally in my recent quest for a new vehicle was finding a vehicle with a high enough nose weight and kerbweight capacity to suit my current 1340kg Abbey. I decided that a large capacity petrol was out (and I really did fancy a Jaguar X-Type). What was left? I could have tried the TDCi Mondeo estate, but I did have a bad experience with mechanical breakdowns with mine so didn't fancy another. I tried to find a Diesel V70 or BMW 320d, but couldn't find one with sensible miles on for the money I could afford and besides the nose weight capacity wasn't that great. Every time I considered a car I came back to a 4x4 despite not really liking them - and yes I did consider a people carrier briefly! So for me the TD4 ticked all the boxes. I know they've got their own reputation and quirks, but I've lived with mine for a week now and I've started too really like it. Solo it's not in the same league as the Mondeo, but it isn't that bad. The Freelander does, however, tow the caravan brilliantly and that ultimately is the main thing the vehicle must do for me.

Wow, they were very thorough observations. I have to concede that my man has probably convonced me that a 4 x 4 may best suit our needs, now just need to decide which one!!!

 

[Marie_374225476]

The waffle below is the result of reflecting on the car/caravan combinations I have used after a recent change to a Freelander. Over the last 5 years I have towed 3 caravans with 6 different cars that I have owned or borrowed. They may be of some use to you!!!

MTPLM Kerbweight Ratio Engine Stabiliser Comment

1000kg 1200kg 83% 1.8 petrol Leaf Handling twitchy, poor engine performance

1000kg 1360kg 74% 2.0 petrol Leaf Much better handling, reasonable engine

performance

1000kg 1485kg 67% 2.4 petrol Leaf Excellent handling, brilliant engine

performance

1000kg 1495kg 67% 2.0 diesel Leaf Excellent handling, brilliant engine

performance

1300kg 1495kg 87% 2.0 diesel aks1300 V.Good handling, very good engine

performance

1300kg 2150kg 60% 2.5 diesel aks1300 Good handling, good engine performance

1340kg 1495kg 90% 2.0 diesel aks2400 Twitchy handling, very good engine

performance

1340kg 1619kg 83% 2.0 diesel aks2400 Very good handling, very good engine

performance

The six cars are/were:

1998 1.8 gdi Mitsubishi Carisma (124bhp)

1999 2.0 Peugeot 406 Saloon (137bhp)

1999 2.4 V70 Volvo (170bhp)

2001 2.0 Ford Mondeo Hatch TDDi (115bhp)

1996 2.5 Landrover Discovery (???bhp)

2003 2.0 Landrover Freelander (110bhp)

These are the observations that I have made.

Stability

Looking at the 1000kg Caravan (ABI Marauder) as the ratio went down the handling definitely got better. This weight ratio and handling point is further re-enforced when I used the same car to tow a further two different caravans 1300kg (Elddis Typhoon) and 1340kg (Abbey Aventura). The difference in handling between the vans was significant! As the weight of the caravans increased then the handling tailed off. Some might say that this could be a function all sorts of other dynamics of the caravans and that is an undeniable fact. Nevertheless, my confidence in the towing of the Abbey has now been restored by the use of the 1619kg Freelander as a tow vehicle. One point that I would include here is the one of nose weight. The optimum nose weight for the Abbey is 94kg, the Elddis was 91kg and the Marauder was 70kg. The nose weight limit on the Mondeo is 75kg and the Freelander is 140kg. Clearly when I used the Mondeo to tow the Abbey it was nearly 20kg below the optimum nose weight capacity and the handling got very twitchy. Now using the Freelander I can load to the optimum nose weight figure and the Abbey tows superbly as a result. I think the nose weight clearly influences the towing characteristics and I certainly now believe this factor should not be underestimated when deciding on the tow vehicle.

Do I think the stabiliser had any effect on the stability? Not significantly. I'm sure they help, but if the rig is fundamentally flawed then I personally don't think they are going to make an awful lot of difference. As can be seen from the table above I've used 3 different stabiliser types and every time the rig was less than optimally configured the stability was compromised.

Engine/Fuels

The engine/fuel question, I think, is much more clear cut. If you want to tow with a petrol engine then it has to be at least 2ltr for a caravan of any size and personally I wouldn't consider any petrol engine below 2.4/2.5ltr. I have to concede that, for me, diesel would be the engine of choice for caravan owners. The difference in towing performance over the smaller petrol engines is vast and comparable, in towing terms, with the larger ones. Where, in my opinion, the diesel engines might lose an argument is in their solo performance. Nevertheless, the modern diesel is so good these days I'm not sure, other than speed freak type performance, that they really lose out on this argument; my Mondeo was superb.

Conclusion

Am I saying everyone who tows should drive massive 6 cylinder diesel 4x4's? No! I thought the early Discovery I used was a dreadful vehicle; although it towed OK it handled so badly solo I wouldn't entertain one of this vintage. What I am saying is that everything is a question of compromise. At the end of the day individuals need to decide what parameter they are prepared to compromise on. As can be seen I've tried numerous combinations now and I can confidently say that as long as the weight ratio and nose weight are within reasonable limits then you'll have a stable outfit. The Mondeo hatch worked well both solo and towing about 1300kgs. The petrol Volvo was likewise a very good towcar and a delight solo.

What I did

The main problem for me personally in my recent quest for a new vehicle was finding a vehicle with a high enough nose weight and kerbweight capacity to suit my current 1340kg Abbey. I decided that a large capacity petrol was out (and I really did fancy a Jaguar X-Type). What was left? I could have tried the TDCi Mondeo estate, but I did have a bad experience with mechanical breakdowns with mine so didn't fancy another. I tried to find a Diesel V70 or BMW 320d, but couldn't find one with sensible miles on for the money I could afford and besides the nose weight capacity wasn't that great. Every time I considered a car I came back to a 4x4 despite not really liking them - and yes I did consider a people carrier briefly! So for me the TD4 ticked all the boxes. I know they've got their own reputation and quirks, but I've lived with mine for a week now and I've started too really like it. Solo it's not in the same league as the Mondeo, but it isn't that bad. The Freelander does, however, tow the caravan brilliantly and that ultimately is the main thing the vehicle must do for me.

Hello again, now looking at the jeep cherokee 2.4 sport 5dr. is there any feedback on this vehicle???? as a towcar !