Hi everyone, I have at the begining of this year bought a new van, a 2007 model Elddis Crusader Super Cyclone. I have been away in it once at Easter for the week and was far from happy with the heating in the end bathroom. on my first morning i put the heating on as usual to warm things up and went into the bathroom and it was freezing. I proceded to check all the pipework was attached to the vents properly and adjusted the heat distribution flap behind the fire to give maximum heat to the rear of the van. Still no heat getting to the bathroom, it's like it is too far for it to travel and still be hot!!. Can anyone shed any light on this or had a similar problem i would appreciate your help and advice. I am considering fitting an extra mains socket in the bathroom and plugging a small fan heater in to give some sort of heat, is this advisable? Thanks Stu.
Blown Air Heating
- Thread starter stu658
- Start date
is this a twin axle, if it is then the distance travelled has a lot to do with it, but if the flap is fully turned to give all heat to the back,then a few more pointers
are you on gas or electric, gas is best but electric should work if=
if electric put on to 2 kw dont put the fan on for at least 20 mins let the unit warm up then put the fan on.
let me know this should work
are you on gas or electric, gas is best but electric should work if=
if electric put on to 2 kw dont put the fan on for at least 20 mins let the unit warm up then put the fan on.
let me know this should work
It seems silly to me that manufacturers often appear to choose the longest possible route for the blow air outlets. The front outlet on my van is under one of the front seats about 2 feet from the fire. The air out of this is piping hot. Looking at new vans this weekend of the same layout & the front vents are moved to under the front drawers - this means the hot air has to travel about 4 times as far so it must cool down a lot. Also means that storage space in the front bunks & under the front drawers is severely compromised by all that piping. Why why why?????????
Stuart do as Paul suggests put the Fire on first with no Fan for 20 minutes then make sure you fan is set between 1&2 on the dial and between 7&* on thermostat this may help if not l think you will need to run on gas.
Also have seen other posts where others have had to insulate the pipe if it goes outside the van.
NigelH
Also have seen other posts where others have had to insulate the pipe if it goes outside the van.
NigelH
Hi there i have a Ace Jubilee twin axel and mine is the same cold in the end bathroom. I have also noticed that i have burn marks on the floor under the fire not sure if that should happen so i have bought a stand alone electric fan heater which works a treat.
My overall thoughts are these;
The Ultraheat's wattage settings are there so you can make use of low amperage hookups, 500W for 6A, 1000W for 10A and 2000W for 16A hookups, their not there to adjust the temperature of the van.
The Ultraheat is thermostatically controlled, therefore the wattage used will simply mean the fire is heating for shorter or longer periods. Where the problems arise then is if the temperature control is not working correctly, this is often due to the heat from the elements directly affecting the sensor itself. This means the heat brings the temperature sensor up to that set on the dial and the elements switch off, you and the vans are still cold but the sensors toasty and takes forever to cool before switching the fire back on!!
Due to this and particularly overnight, it's become something of an urban myth to set it at 500w or 1000w, this or that number on the dial and fan speed setting. In truth what's happening is the available heat is not capable of reaching the set temperature so never switches off, it's a useful work around but not how it should work.
The real solution is to fit a 'remote' temperature sensor and attach it to the gas fires sensor, if a remote is already fitted, it to will usually react better if moved to this location.
Setting the fan on manual speed means the fan runs at this speed regardless of the amount of heat being produced, I would suggest manual fan is only for use without heat for cooling in summer, if infact it has a use?!
Setting the fan to 'A'utomatic allows the heat produced to control the fan speed 'up' to the speed set on the dial, you can then, keep this set maximum low and therefore quiet over night perhaps
Automatic means the fan will run slowly initially and speed up as the air passing through gets warmer, doing it this way allows heat and fan to be switched on together and doing away with waiting xx minutes as often suggested.
I would suggest as a start and during the day, the wattage selected is as high as the hook up allows and then fan speed set to maximum on Automatic.
This provides the maximum heat if required and the fans speed will respond to change in temperature, ie, fast when heat cycle is on and slow when heat is off.
After that you can fine tune to suit your own needs
Other heating problems concern the control board, the elements are switched on and off by relays and the contacts burn out, particularly the two 1kw relays. If this happens you may think you have it set to 2kw but only one element is working, finally perhaps leaving you with just 500w working when both 2kw and1kw settings no longer work.
(Note, relays will still be heard to 'click' but unless you have heat, their not working)
The 12v for control also comes from this board and the transformer sometimes packs up, apart from no heat, you will lose the green light in the switch if this happens
Lastly and also if no heat is forth coming, there are two safety thermostats, one at least of these has a habit of self destruction which stops all heating on electric!
The control switch itself seems generally reliable but the odd one does fail.
The numbers on the dial represent roughly 4degs and 9 is 32degs or thereabouts, this in theory makes 6 or 7 'normal' but it's what feels comfortable that matters not the number.
Another problem not caused by the heater itself is long runs of un-insulated blown air pipe running outside under the floor, insulating this will improve matters considerable.
Everything installed and working as it should, there is no good reason why the electric heating should not work very well and keep an even temperature to suit your needs.
However, it must be remembered the van needs to be warmed through thoroughly before the heating is turned down, while the vans cold it will constantly drag heat from the air and this needs constant topping up or the van will always feel draughty. It's most useful then while particularly cold, to use gas as well for the first couple of hours and if the heating is off during the day, to turn it back on at the first sign of a chill.
The Ultraheat's wattage settings are there so you can make use of low amperage hookups, 500W for 6A, 1000W for 10A and 2000W for 16A hookups, their not there to adjust the temperature of the van.
The Ultraheat is thermostatically controlled, therefore the wattage used will simply mean the fire is heating for shorter or longer periods. Where the problems arise then is if the temperature control is not working correctly, this is often due to the heat from the elements directly affecting the sensor itself. This means the heat brings the temperature sensor up to that set on the dial and the elements switch off, you and the vans are still cold but the sensors toasty and takes forever to cool before switching the fire back on!!
Due to this and particularly overnight, it's become something of an urban myth to set it at 500w or 1000w, this or that number on the dial and fan speed setting. In truth what's happening is the available heat is not capable of reaching the set temperature so never switches off, it's a useful work around but not how it should work.
The real solution is to fit a 'remote' temperature sensor and attach it to the gas fires sensor, if a remote is already fitted, it to will usually react better if moved to this location.
Setting the fan on manual speed means the fan runs at this speed regardless of the amount of heat being produced, I would suggest manual fan is only for use without heat for cooling in summer, if infact it has a use?!
Setting the fan to 'A'utomatic allows the heat produced to control the fan speed 'up' to the speed set on the dial, you can then, keep this set maximum low and therefore quiet over night perhaps
Automatic means the fan will run slowly initially and speed up as the air passing through gets warmer, doing it this way allows heat and fan to be switched on together and doing away with waiting xx minutes as often suggested.
I would suggest as a start and during the day, the wattage selected is as high as the hook up allows and then fan speed set to maximum on Automatic.
This provides the maximum heat if required and the fans speed will respond to change in temperature, ie, fast when heat cycle is on and slow when heat is off.
After that you can fine tune to suit your own needs
Other heating problems concern the control board, the elements are switched on and off by relays and the contacts burn out, particularly the two 1kw relays. If this happens you may think you have it set to 2kw but only one element is working, finally perhaps leaving you with just 500w working when both 2kw and1kw settings no longer work.
(Note, relays will still be heard to 'click' but unless you have heat, their not working)
The 12v for control also comes from this board and the transformer sometimes packs up, apart from no heat, you will lose the green light in the switch if this happens
Lastly and also if no heat is forth coming, there are two safety thermostats, one at least of these has a habit of self destruction which stops all heating on electric!
The control switch itself seems generally reliable but the odd one does fail.
The numbers on the dial represent roughly 4degs and 9 is 32degs or thereabouts, this in theory makes 6 or 7 'normal' but it's what feels comfortable that matters not the number.
Another problem not caused by the heater itself is long runs of un-insulated blown air pipe running outside under the floor, insulating this will improve matters considerable.
Everything installed and working as it should, there is no good reason why the electric heating should not work very well and keep an even temperature to suit your needs.
However, it must be remembered the van needs to be warmed through thoroughly before the heating is turned down, while the vans cold it will constantly drag heat from the air and this needs constant topping up or the van will always feel draughty. It's most useful then while particularly cold, to use gas as well for the first couple of hours and if the heating is off during the day, to turn it back on at the first sign of a chill.
Gary, thanks for your reply!! alot of useful information and i will try checking the things that you have mentioned and also the way in which i operate the heating. i am not away now until the end of June but i hope that things will get better. The only other option is next time to go for a van with Alde heating!!
paul, yes it's a twin axle. I shall try everything out that has been suggested and in time report back!!
Stuart
I found with my 2004 bailey,the only solution was to fit a electric socket in the bathroom, to run a fan heater off.
However i am not sure if it is legal, but its something we use all year round, it dries out the shower room very effectively.
We only ever use the fan on the heater in summer to try and cool the van.
I found with my 2004 bailey,the only solution was to fit a electric socket in the bathroom, to run a fan heater off.
However i am not sure if it is legal, but its something we use all year round, it dries out the shower room very effectively.
We only ever use the fan on the heater in summer to try and cool the van.
Ray that was one of my ideas to try and sort this problem out!! it would be quite easy to fit a new mains socket in the bathroom in a suitable place and buy a electric fan heater or a small oil filled radiator.
Legal or not my 96 van has an original socket in the 'washroom' although it stuck me it was a bit 'iffy' being under the sink!
Never used it for heating though as the two vents in the washroom blow the same amount of hot air as the rest of the van, the underfloor section being around 5ft long and insulated with normal 'Truma' black insulation pipe.
Personally then I'd see if the current system can be improved, foil coated camping bed mats cut in strips being an ideal and cheap insulation material...so I'm told anyway!
Never used it for heating though as the two vents in the washroom blow the same amount of hot air as the rest of the van, the underfloor section being around 5ft long and insulated with normal 'Truma' black insulation pipe.
Personally then I'd see if the current system can be improved, foil coated camping bed mats cut in strips being an ideal and cheap insulation material...so I'm told anyway!
Two other things that can help, but not always possible depending on the design of the caravan,
The longer the ducting the more resistance it offers to the air flow. In some cases the route the ducting takes can be straightened out. Every bend in the duct adds resistance to the air flow (a 90 degree bed is like adding 1M of additional length)
In some caravans it is possible to create a complete ring of ducting around the caravan. This improves the air flow to all points and especially at the more extreme distances from the heater.
The longer the ducting the more resistance it offers to the air flow. In some cases the route the ducting takes can be straightened out. Every bend in the duct adds resistance to the air flow (a 90 degree bed is like adding 1M of additional length)
In some caravans it is possible to create a complete ring of ducting around the caravan. This improves the air flow to all points and especially at the more extreme distances from the heater.
We have old and new TA's with blown air, the heating gets stifling hot on even a low setting. But we had problems with blown air heating in the past. Ducting that had come apart, splits and holes in the ducting that were out of site (lovely warm under bed locker and kitchen drawers) and just plain bad direction of the ducting.
Have a good check over the ducting and all the joints and turn points.
Have a good check over the ducting and all the joints and turn points.
Hi Stuart
We were a bit dubious when we first had our Pageant Burgundy new and first used it in winter.
Could not seem to get it properly warm.
Had a word with a seasoned caravanner at the dealers who advised using the heating on gas in conjunction with electric, as it states in the handbook.
Works a treat in fact we dry clothes in the shower room now.
Set the gas to a nice temp and the fan on auto. e.g. in our van according to the handbook increment 4 equates to about 68deg. which is too hot for us, so we go lower.
Neither of us likes too much heat but have found it's far better using this method.
Best regards
Tomo
We were a bit dubious when we first had our Pageant Burgundy new and first used it in winter.
Could not seem to get it properly warm.
Had a word with a seasoned caravanner at the dealers who advised using the heating on gas in conjunction with electric, as it states in the handbook.
Works a treat in fact we dry clothes in the shower room now.
Set the gas to a nice temp and the fan on auto. e.g. in our van according to the handbook increment 4 equates to about 68deg. which is too hot for us, so we go lower.
Neither of us likes too much heat but have found it's far better using this method.
Best regards
Tomo
Hi,
I could never get on with warm air heating. I could never get it to work properly so for a long long time I never used it. In the last 18 months we have been getting away at least once a month and it was during the latter end of last year as we sat in the van enjoying the wine ( as you do )that we came to the conclusion, we didn't want a cold end bathroom any more. So I got out the instruction book and read it. I tried an experiment. I put the switch to 2kw and put the fan between 2 and 3. Lo and behold it worked. Now I lean out of the bed put the heater on , make the tea, go back to bed and by the time we've drunk( not too sure if it's drunk or drank) the tea, the bathroom is nicely warmed up for her indoors.
I really hope you get it working. Keeping the fan on low definately works
I could never get on with warm air heating. I could never get it to work properly so for a long long time I never used it. In the last 18 months we have been getting away at least once a month and it was during the latter end of last year as we sat in the van enjoying the wine ( as you do )that we came to the conclusion, we didn't want a cold end bathroom any more. So I got out the instruction book and read it. I tried an experiment. I put the switch to 2kw and put the fan between 2 and 3. Lo and behold it worked. Now I lean out of the bed put the heater on , make the tea, go back to bed and by the time we've drunk( not too sure if it's drunk or drank) the tea, the bathroom is nicely warmed up for her indoors.
I really hope you get it working. Keeping the fan on low definately works
Tom
I wasn't aware that you could have both gas and electric on simultaneously on the fire.
That's 5kw, a lot of heat from a fire close to carpet and in my case surrounded by woodwork.
I would use both fuels for a fast heat on the water heater, but not sure about the fire.
But i am paying for the electric up front, so don't use the gas, except as standby.
I wasn't aware that you could have both gas and electric on simultaneously on the fire.
That's 5kw, a lot of heat from a fire close to carpet and in my case surrounded by woodwork.
I would use both fuels for a fast heat on the water heater, but not sure about the fire.
But i am paying for the electric up front, so don't use the gas, except as standby.
Hello Ray,
A quick look at the instructions book should tell you if it is advaisable or even possible to run both gas and electric sides simultaneously.
Where the appliance is controlled by thermostatically sensitive valves, the gas side would begin to shut down as the temperature in the appliance rose. The thermostat in the gas valve is not disabled at full setting, it just operates at a higher set temperature.
All CE approved electric appliances also have to be protected from over temperatuer conditions. These are also normally controlled by thermostats that sense the appliance temperature close to the incoming air.
and as far as I know electric elements have to be are also thermostatically controlled and ultimately protected by over temperature switches.
A quick look at the instructions book should tell you if it is advaisable or even possible to run both gas and electric sides simultaneously.
Where the appliance is controlled by thermostatically sensitive valves, the gas side would begin to shut down as the temperature in the appliance rose. The thermostat in the gas valve is not disabled at full setting, it just operates at a higher set temperature.
All CE approved electric appliances also have to be protected from over temperatuer conditions. These are also normally controlled by thermostats that sense the appliance temperature close to the incoming air.
and as far as I know electric elements have to be are also thermostatically controlled and ultimately protected by over temperature switches.
I can confirm the Truma system is designed to use both gas and electric together, as such it is protected from getting to hot.
A little confession, I don't have a Truma system but have the benefit of Carver heating via the last one they made.. the 5500 'turbo' Fanmaster.
The point about this Carver system is the fan is by default controlled automatically while 'full' electric heating is selected, switching the gas on as well might give rise to the Turbo bit because it gets going a bit!!
Nevertheless, on full bore the heat from the vents is sufficient to hurt your hand if you get any it closer than 10 inches
Truma's fan however is not coupled in the same way, this means the overheat protection could well shut the electric side down to stop problems arising.
Given that, it's most important to run the fan on Automatic and max speed so you get the best possible use out of the available heat.
As the Truma is slightly more powerful than the Carver, I'd say it must at least equal Carvers adequate performance if used correctly?
A little confession, I don't have a Truma system but have the benefit of Carver heating via the last one they made.. the 5500 'turbo' Fanmaster.
The point about this Carver system is the fan is by default controlled automatically while 'full' electric heating is selected, switching the gas on as well might give rise to the Turbo bit because it gets going a bit!!
Nevertheless, on full bore the heat from the vents is sufficient to hurt your hand if you get any it closer than 10 inches
Truma's fan however is not coupled in the same way, this means the overheat protection could well shut the electric side down to stop problems arising.
Given that, it's most important to run the fan on Automatic and max speed so you get the best possible use out of the available heat.
As the Truma is slightly more powerful than the Carver, I'd say it must at least equal Carvers adequate performance if used correctly?
Read the literature that came with the van on the heating and that's how they advised using it.
On auto fan there is a limit to the speed, off the top of my head I think it is no higher than the second increment.
We've used it over 2 winters now on these settings and it's really good.
Set it up the first time to Trumas setting for 68deg. and then backed it off to where it was comfortable for us.
Just turned the gas off when in bed and out in the day when particularly cold.
The Burgundy is a pretty long van but have no problems.
Like I said used on electric when first bought, pretty dire, until we spoke to someone at dealers,then as you do read the handbooks and we've not looked back since.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
Tomo.
On auto fan there is a limit to the speed, off the top of my head I think it is no higher than the second increment.
We've used it over 2 winters now on these settings and it's really good.
Set it up the first time to Trumas setting for 68deg. and then backed it off to where it was comfortable for us.
Just turned the gas off when in bed and out in the day when particularly cold.
The Burgundy is a pretty long van but have no problems.
Like I said used on electric when first bought, pretty dire, until we spoke to someone at dealers,then as you do read the handbooks and we've not looked back since.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
Tomo.
Stuart,
The IEE wiring regulations state that you should not be able to touch a socket, light swtich etc from a fixed bath/ toilet/ shower/ sink. This is why bathrooms have pullcord light switches or the switches are outside. Shaversockets are acceptable however. If you have a large bathroom then you may be able to position a socket far enough away from sources of water.
Having said this the IEE regulations do not extend to caravan wiring and I am not sure what regulations they are covered by.
I would personally avoid a socket and instead install a fused connection unit and a heater suitable for a bathroom location such as an oil filled tubular heater or similar with a thermostatic control.
I also have a cold bathroom and I intent to insulate the blown air ducts underneath the van once I can find a suitable material to use.
Good Luck
David
The IEE wiring regulations state that you should not be able to touch a socket, light swtich etc from a fixed bath/ toilet/ shower/ sink. This is why bathrooms have pullcord light switches or the switches are outside. Shaversockets are acceptable however. If you have a large bathroom then you may be able to position a socket far enough away from sources of water.
Having said this the IEE regulations do not extend to caravan wiring and I am not sure what regulations they are covered by.
I would personally avoid a socket and instead install a fused connection unit and a heater suitable for a bathroom location such as an oil filled tubular heater or similar with a thermostatic control.
I also have a cold bathroom and I intent to insulate the blown air ducts underneath the van once I can find a suitable material to use.
Good Luck
David
David (Scotland)
Hi, have just insulated my blown air pipes and the laggig is great!
As follows:
www.pipelagging.com
Armaflex selfseal 76mm bore and 15mm wall
Part no L024.
Instant delivery and can recommend highly.
Any questions just ask.
Jim
Hi, have just insulated my blown air pipes and the laggig is great!
As follows:
www.pipelagging.com
Armaflex selfseal 76mm bore and 15mm wall
Part no L024.
Instant delivery and can recommend highly.
Any questions just ask.
Jim
You wouldn't wire a house socket in 3 core flex, so unless the regs have a separate section for caravans? Then i would say caravan wiring is not to the IEE regs.
But even if they are, unless things have changed since the 70's, the regulations are not enforceable by law.
But even if they are, unless things have changed since the 70's, the regulations are not enforceable by law.
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