Calling Kia & Hyundai owners

[Steve L]

There was an interesting topic on breafast tv this morning that will be usefull to all Kia and Hyundai owners.
A court in the USA has rulled that the manufacturer's MPG figures were so far away from what can actually be achieved out on the roads, that Kia and Hyundai have been found guilty of misleading the public. It was also muted that, there may well be a compensation payment to be made to all USA owners of the product.
At last it appears that someone is standing up to be counted and the over estimated claims often set by salesmen are being challenged. After all, I bet nobody can get close to what the MPG that is quoted in the blurb for their car.
My 2.0 diesel X type jag has a supposed top economy of 64 MPG, but I'm getting 58 MPG at best and that is nearly 10% below what is advertised. Having said that, I do understand that very often the manufacturers figures are achieved via "rolling road" test conditions.

Hopefully if the USA case can be accepted as the prescident and the EU have a complaint raised, perhaps UK owners might be compensated too.

But then if the numbers of people signing upto fair fuel uk are anything to go by, we could be waiting for ever.

 

[otherclive]

Don't bank on it as in UK and EU the given consumption figures for mpg are always quoted as "official". This is to ensure that no such claims can be brought. The EU/UK figures are obtained using standardised tests with the car indoors and on a dyno test rig. All they do is give a comparison between different cars subject to the same test. They also form the basis for VED too. I understand that a new EU test is under development but again it cannot possibly reflect the driving styles and conditions encountered in the real world.

 

[JonnyG]

What a court findings are in the US has no relevence here in EU land as they do not use our EU measurements so therefore the figurers Kia ect are using are specific to the US and how they do there mpg ratings..
I do find it somewhat strange that someone of your experience would be complaining about getting Only 58 mpg from a car that has officail figurers of 62mpg afterall unless you warm up the engine then fill it up then refill after your run and use those mpg figurers as a comparrison,then you seriously have no reason to complain,as all EU testes are based on a warmed up engine and as you know a cold
engine uses upto 30% more fuel at least then 58mpg from a 1 and a half tonne vehicle using an old ford lump is pretty impressive...

 

[JonnyG]

A quick check confirms that the US stats are considerble higher than the EUs in otherwords there figurers are more over the top than
our own.... anyway this explains things better than i can .

The first thing to understand that a car’s “official” fuel economy figures are not measured by the manufacturer. Instead, they are calculated by the government to a uniform EU standard, using a standardised and carefully controlled laboratory testing program – known as the New European Driving Cycle. This means that every car on sale in Europe can be compared using the same tests, so you can compare the relative fuel economy of Car A with Car B. However, the system does have its drawbacks.
One of the problems is that the test routines are relatively simple and do not tax the car greatly, meaning the results will be very favourable. There are also no complications like hills, headwinds, traffic, different drivers with different driving styles, weather variables, luggage, under-inflated tyres, and other factors which will affect fuel economy. The results will always be a best-case scenario.
The other problem is that car manufacturers are very good at designing their cars to excel at relatively straightforward government tests like fuel consumption and crash testing. Modern on-board computers control every aspect of how your car performs, and those computers are programmed to do well in the exact conditions used by the fuel economy tests, even if they are not representative of the car’s normal operating environment. Sneaky, huh?
The net result is that the official fuel economy figures will almost certainly be considerably better than what you can expect to achieve in the real world (unless you do all your driving downhill with a tailwind). So why are the tests not just made tougher? Well, mainly because that would mean that you wouldn’t be able to compare a car tested under the new method with a car tested under the old method, and re-testing every car that has been on the market since 1999 (when the current test was devised) is not economically feasible. There is also not a lot of interest from the manufacturers, as tougher tests would make their new cars look less economical than their old cars, even if this is not really true.
Various other people or bodies have had a crack at providing “more realistic” fuel economy figures for cars, the latest of which is WhatCar? magazine’s new ‘True MPG’ program. Although the fuel economy numbers they provide may be more ‘realistic’ (ie – thirstier) than the official tests by driving on ‘real roads’ and carrying more weight, they cannot match the consistency of laboratory testing and introduce all-new margins of error when estimating what you can expect a car’s fuel economy to be for your circumstances.

 

[RogerL]

In Europe, Hyundai/Kia figures are no more optimistic than other brands - the problem being the unrealistic EU tests - in the States Hyundai/Kia owners fall a long way short of the EPA figures where owners of other brands can get much closer.
In any case, the product liability laws are much more stringent in the States than in UK or Europe.

 

[Steve L]

Having worked in the motor industry with a tier one supplier I was quite aware of the EU stratagy.
I picked upon the point in the news cast that the EU was also looking into the two manufacturers concerned.

I remember many yaers ago a family friend who bought a brand new mk3 cortina from Ravenhills that was, in Hereford. He sent the car back half a dozen times because he couldn't get more than 16mpg out of it. They changed the carb and many other ignition parts and still couldn't get over 20mpg. Eventually they put a complete new engine in it direct from ford and sent the original back for examination. Reg was happy now as he got a good 30mpg+.

It just goes to show you get good and bad with every model of car.

BTW I'm off to Bala Lake today to test sail my 17ft sailing cruiser that I got for £36-99 off Ebay, and have spent the last year restoring her and converting to suit my ability. So I'll be able to try the jag towing a decent load (1000kgs). I'll let you know how the diesel consumption goes.
Also sorry to all who I hold up on the A5 while I chug along at 50 Mph, I'll pull over as often as poss, but I ain't throwing away a year of graft and pain by speeding up.

 

[RogerL]

Also sorry to all who I hold up on the A5 while I chug along at 50 Mph, I'll pull over as often as poss, but I ain't throwing away a year of graft and pain by speeding up.

?????
Apart from the dual carriageway sections, where other traffic can overtake anyway, the speed limit on the A5 is 50mph when towing or 40mph in any goods vehicle over 7.5 tonnes.
Cars and motorbikes are permitted to overtake, when it's safe and legal to do so.
Enjoy your drive !

 

[Steve L]

I got a steady 33.8mpg towing the boat yesterday.
You're right on the speed limits roger, but on the A5 everyone goes into suicide mode!!!!
I regularly drive between Shrewsbury and Llangollen and I rate that road as probably the most dangerous in the uk.
Yesterday I saw 3 cars almost side swipe each other in their madness to get past a lorry doing 50mph.
Then there were dozens of 3 vehicles playing chicken making the 2 lane road into a 3 lane rat run.
The most scary one was when the car in front of me went to overtake the car in front of him (playing chicken with the oncoming traffic ) the car being overtaken too exception to being passed and swerved to the right forcing the overtaker further over. They actually interlocked door mirrors and were literally only a couple of inches away from contact.

That's why I said that I wasn't speeding up for anyone. I would rather watch the suicide jockeys from a safe distance rather than become one.

 

[Steve L]

I have a question for all you Hyundai and Kia owners.
How close do you get to the manufacturers mpg figures for solo driving?
Generally I do realise that it will be quite rare to actually exceed the figure quoted as the manufacturer will be as economical with the truth as they can get away with, to sell the mpg to you.
I must say that over all, my Jag is probably about 10% below the official figures on mpg. But now we are getting a frosty morning, it doesn't warm up as fast and so the mpg get's a hit. I'm going to see if there is a radiator blind available or alternatively I'll make my own.
Now before anyone starts.
You do have to be very carefull when making your own radiator blinds as, you have to take into account the intercooler for example and also be mentally aware that you are constricting cool air flow to get the engine hotter quicker and this can if not done efficiently result in head gasket failure.
That's why I will be talking to a mate of mine at Jaguar HQ in Castle Brom, to see how they equip their cars for northern Canada for instance.
It'll be nice to have a day trip back into engineering.

 

[RogerL]

Being retired, my weeks are all one thing or the other with no "mixed" driving - when I'm just doing local shopping trips, barely getting warmed up but no heavy commuting I get about 27mpg, 10% less than the official Urban figure - on long motorway runs at 70mph (GPS) I get about 39mpg, the official Combined figure - on long motorway towing runs at 60mph (GPS) I get about 26mpg, 2/3 of the Combined figure.
I've no idea what the official Extra-Urban figure is for, none of my cars have had a cat in hells chance of getting even close to that !
That's for a 2017kg kerbweight, 194bhp, Santa Fe automatic - but when you've owned a Subaru everything is economical !!

 

[SteveW77]

I have a question for all you Hyundai and Kia owners.
How close do you get to the manufacturers mpg figures for solo driving?

I don't know how my Kia Sorento KX2 stacks up against Kias figures and frankly I don't care.
The day I consider choosing a car based on fuel consumption figures will be the day I stop driving.
I drive because I enjoy it, If i have to worry about fuel consumption, I will stop enjoying it, so I will stop doing it.

Steve W

 

[Surfer]

The manufacturer's mpg figures for my Jeep are spot on. Combined is 27mpg and that is what works out at on brim to brim fills.

 

[Willi-Wonti]

I have a Hyundai Terracan (looks like an older Shogun)
It has a 2.9 Mercedes engine that does around 25 mpg around town & when towing. Solo on the motorway it will do around 35 mpg
I can live with this as I only drive around 6-7000 miles a year & I need it to tow 1700kg of Burstner
It only takes me 10 mins to walk to work keeping me fit

 

[RogerL]

The Terracan, and various other Hyundai/Kia models, use a MAZDA 2.9 diesel - it's the Ssangyong that uses an old Mercedes engine - it's an urban myth that Hyundai were ever involved with Mercedes-Benz.

 

[JonnyG]

The Terracan, and various other Hyundai/Kia models, use a MAZDA 2.9 diesel - it's the Ssangyong that uses an old Mercedes engine - it's an urban myth that Hyundai were ever involved with Mercedes-Benz.

I stand to be corrected but Mazda have never built a 2.9 diesel engine.and in the past hyundia has jiontly develoed its
engines with detroit diesels which was a subsedary of chrysler/daimler.....

 

[RogerL]

I can believe that the Mercedes link was assumed from the Chysler/Daimler and Detroit Diesels link.
Hyundai initially built engines under licence that related to the original source of the cars built under licence, typically Mitsubishi but not exclusively - they later used VM Motori diesels, VM itself having had many owners including Detroit Diesels and GM who now own 50% - Hyundai started building the VM engines under licence and still do for fitting in GM Daewoo cars, such as the Chevrolet Captiva and Opel/Vauxhall Antara.
Hyundai developed their own completely in-house R-series and S-series diesels to end the reliance on bought-in or licence-built engines for Hyundai-Kia models - they also build the Global Alliance Engine for Chrysler/Fiat and Mitsubishi.