Can I tow my caravan with this car?

[Kate00]

Hi everyone

very new to the site, and caravanning and looking for some guidance on towing weights.

We have a Europa Sterling 525v (2006) (single axle) and we need to get a car to tow it as last car died... A family member has said we can buy their car off them - but we cannot figure out the towing weights. When I look at the car Vs caravan spec - all the figures are under different 'headers' and not sure what I need to be looking at

From what I can gather, the car (Peaugot 307 1.6 HDi 2007) has a MTPLM of 1365kg .... the car has a braked towing weight of 1300kg --- does this mean the car won't tow it?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

You need to know the car's kerbweight. Ask your family member to look in the car's registration certificate for it's Mass in Service (also know as Mass In Running Order), and also max braked towed weight.

What is the MTPLM of the caravan (normally shown on a plate under the caravan door), then come back to us.

 

[otherclive]

Sorry to hear that your tow car has died, but you have not really supplied enough information, and that which you have supplied is confusing. Car's don't have MTPLM and you have also supplied a cars braked towing weight.

To be advised you should supply:
Kerbweight of car.
Maximum towed braked weight for car.
Gross vehicle weight See V5
MTPLM of caravan
Your licence details re B+E status
Are you experienced in towing caravans.

If the caravan has a MTPLM of 1365kg you could tow it with that car providing you keep the loaded caravan weight below 1300kg. which is the car's towing limit. But the limit really only applies to the cars ability to re-start on a given incline, not its overall suitably as a tow car. However you should look at the ratio of cars kerb weight to caravan maximum weight and see where you stand regarding the 85% guidance, which may or may not be relevant in your situation.

 

[Kate00]

OK, thanks for responses

Car spec
Kerb Weight 1250kg
85% kg - 1062.5
Towing Capacity (Kg) 1340kg

Caravan:
MTPLM - 1365kg

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

If the caravan has a MTPLM of 1365kg you could tow it with that car providing you keep the loaded caravan weight below 1300kg.

NOT LEGALLY !!! Weights are based on MTPLM, not how you load it.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

OK, thanks for responses

Car spec
Kerb Weight 1250kg
85% kg - 1062.5
Towing Capacity (Kg) 1340kg

Caravan:
MTPLM - 1365kg

You've answered your own question. I certainly wouldn't tow at 109%. hmy: The recommendation is to tow no more than 85% ie 1062 kg

 

[Martin24]

Oh deary me, lordie dawdie no.

Recommendation for inexperienced caravan towers is 85% that as WC says is 109%

At 100% the car is an equal weight to the caravan anything above that and who's in control? The caravan.

In addition it is not legal to tow any more than the max towing capacity which is less than mtplm of the caravan.

I'm sure the family member is trying to help you out but on this occasion you're going to have to politely decline and look elsewhere at something heavier and gutsier. Sorry.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

If the caravan has a MTPLM of 1365kg you could tow it with that car providing you keep the loaded caravan weight below 1300kg.

NOT LEGALLY !!! Weights are based on MTPLM, not how you load it.

could you verify that statement by pointing to the bit of legislation that says the Maximum Towed Permissible Laden Mass. is the true assumed towing weight of a trailer. no matter how it is loaded.
unless there has been some new rules on this [other than the requirement for B licence holders] I would be interested to read it.
the MTPLM is just what it says a maximum this bears no relation to the actual tow load of the van this can only be determined by weighing then deducting the nose weight.

 

[Jaydug]

Just to add to the doom and gloom - the tow ball limit on the Pug is only 60Kgs.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If the caravan has a MTPLM of 1365kg you could tow it with that car providing you keep the loaded caravan weight below 1300kg.

NOT LEGALLY !!! Weights are based on MTPLM, not how you load it.

Not so Woodlands :

Just a quick word to the OP first. It would be unwise to try and tow the caravan you have with the car you have been offered. It would be very difficult to follow the industry guidelines becasue the UNLADEN (MIRO) weight of the caravan will very close if not already above the 85% guidance. Simply not a good match even for an experienced tow-er.

Now Woodlands, Subject to the physical size limitations of lawful trailers, a tow vehicle can tow any trailer provided the actual weight on the axle (not its weight limit) is less than the tow vehicle's towed weight specification. It may not be wise, it may not be safe, but from a legal weight perspective it is possible.

The only time a trailers weight LIMIT (MTPLM) is used, is when checking compliance with the Drivers licence entitlements, for example the Cat B limits the outfit to a combined MAM (GVW +MTPLM) of not more than 3500kg, and where the B licence also limits the trailers MTPLM to less than the tow vehicles Unladen Weight ULW.

 

[Gafferbill]

You are right Prof but please bear in mind that the OP has only made two posts on this forum and is new to caravanning.
She only requires a simple answer which is the car is unsuitable as it is not heavy enough.
How lucky she is that she can give this reason to her family member as a reason for not buying the car.
She is more likely to heed this advice if it is not crowded out by too much technical detail.

 

[tadhgocuilleain]

Short answer is: you can just about legally tow that caravan with that car, but it's not really a suitable tow car and everyone is recommending that you don't buy the car.

a tow vehicle can tow any trailer provided the actual weight on the axle (not its weight limit) is less than the tow vehicle's towed weight specification.

The law in Ireland is based on the MTPLM of the trailer, but my understanding has always been that the law in the UK is as described by ProfJohnL above.

 

[Raywood]

As the Prof says the Pug is not up to the job. It has neither the weight to tow it safely, nor the power to do a decent job. For a beginner a car with a kerb weight that gives the 85% figure is good advice although whatever you do I would not get one under 1500 kg. Do check though if the manufacturers figure for the car includes the driver as if not you can add 75 kg for that.

 

[ProfJohnL]

You are right Prof but please bear in mind that the OP has only made two posts on this forum and is new to caravanning.
She only requires a simple answer which is the car is unsuitable as it is not heavy enough.
How lucky she is that she can give this reason to her family member as a reason for not buying the car.
She is more likely to heed this advice if it is not crowded out by too much technical detail.

Hello Gaffer,

Can I refer you to the thread in General about giving forum advice.

Also I was not the first on this thread to offer more than a simple NO, And as it happens if you had read my post the first major paragraph was directed at the OP in an uncharacteristically simple terms I express my belief the outfit was not viable.

It has also been expressed by some newer members that they appreciate the background and reasoning behind the advice. Contrary to your suggestion, I am a firm believer that if you tell someone "don't do that" they are more likely to head the advice if the understand why they shouldn't do it.

It has, and always will be on of my response triggers if I spot a glaring factual inaccuracy, especially in areas where I have taken keen interest. I could have gone into the difference between MTPLM and maximum axle load due to the car carrying the nose and not towing it, but even with that variance the outfit looked to marginal on paper.

 

[MichaelE]

Oh deary me, lordie dawdie no.

Recommendation for inexperienced caravan towers is 85% that as WC says is 109%

At 100% the car is an equal weight to the caravan anything above that and who's in control? The caravan.

In addition it is not legal to tow any more than the max towing capacity which is less than mtplm of the caravan.

I'm sure the family member is trying to help you out but on this occasion you're going to have to politely decline and look elsewhere at something heavier and gutsier. Sorry.

This is where i get so confused? My car weighs 2000kgs and i have a max tow of 3500k which is well over my 100% so as said who is controlling who?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

This is where i get so confused? My car weighs 2000kgs and i have a max tow of 3500k which is well over my 100% so as said who is controlling who?

With your max tow of 3500kg you could tow, for example, a 1500kg car trailer carrying a 2000kg car, or a flatbed trailer carrying several tonnes of sand or chippings, both examples of which have low centre of gravity and possibly only on local roads. You would not be towing a caravan of that weight due to their high sides and inherent instability at higher speeds on open roads.

 

[tadhgocuilleain]

This is where i get so confused? My car weighs 2000kgs and i have a max tow of 3500k which is well over my 100% so as said who is controlling who?

The maximum towing capacity of your car, as specified by the manufacturer, is a legal limit. This applies to anything you'll tow.

The 85% guideline is just that, a guideline. It has no legal standing, but it's highly recommended to adhere to it. It refers specifically to caravans because, as mentioned, they are a unique type of trailer and towing a caravan is very different to towing anything else.

I can happily tow a trailer of sand weighing 3,500kg with my Ford Ranger. Driving at 80kph on the motorway, that will be quite stable. However, if I tow a caravan weighing even half that weight, a passing HGV could cause the caravan to sway because the caravan is tall, relatively light for its size, and has a high centre of gravity. If my tow car isn't at least as heavy as the caravan, the caravan will be in control and it will be very difficult or impossible to recover the situation.

EDIT: While the 85% guideline doesn't have a legal standing, the police may decide that you're not in control of the combination and that is illegal.

 

[Raywood]

This is where i get so confused? My car weighs 2000kgs and i have a max tow of 3500k which is well over my 100% so as said who is controlling who?

The maximum towing capacity of your car, as specified by the manufacturer, is a legal limit. This applies to anything you'll tow.

The 85% guideline is just that, a guideline. It has no legal standing, but it's highly recommended to adhere to it. It refers specifically to caravans because, as mentioned, they are a unique type of trailer and towing a caravan is very different to towing anything else.

I can happily tow a trailer of sand weighing 3,500kg with my Ford Ranger. Driving at 80kph on the motorway, that will be quite stable. However, if I tow a caravan weighing even half that weight, a passing HGV could cause the caravan to sway because the caravan is tall, relatively light for its size, and has a high centre of gravity. If my tow car isn't at least as heavy as the caravan, the caravan will be in control and it will be very difficult or impossible to recover the situation.

EDIT: While the 85% guideline doesn't have a legal standing, the police may decide that you're not in control of the combination and that is illegal.

Spot on. The maximum trailer weight is based on what the car can start on a 12% incline and not what is safe on a motorway. I do doubt that the police would take the 85% point though. They would have to prove an outfit was unstable and even both clubs agree that experienced drivers can exceed it safely. They would need some other convincing evidence to prosecute.