Just got back from holiday and was chatting to another caravaner and he said that the door lock fitted to the Bailey wasn't the best. I want to change mine but does anyone know of a GOOD lock which is a direct replacement to the on fitted as standard
Caravan Door Locks
- Thread starter Reg
- Start date
Hi Reg
You will find that the current door lock is a HARTAL which is fitted as standard in nearly all makes of caravan.
There has been a major issue with Hartal locks for 2+ years now, the mechanism gets very stiff and you are finally in danger of breaking your key in the lock.
I have had two in 12 months on my new Bailey and on return from 3 months in Europe last month had to go to my dealer again and say this new one was worse than the last one!! They put a new one on order immediately, but stated that they had returned 40+ from various makes of caravan to Hartal this year. They pointed to the corner of the office which had a large pile of locks waiting to go back to Hartal.
The basic problem is that the interior locking bar is too big and the UK Hartal MD recommendation is to smear lots of Vaseline on it. But first you have to break the red & green caps in order to get at the screws underneath. Best option which was on this site by Gareth some months back was to use emery paper to slim the locking bar down a bit and then smear vaseline on it prior to re-assembly. There is a circlip to overcome which is easy enouth if you have circlip pliers - if not a real pain!!
If it is a van still under warranty then let the dealer sort it out.
I am very surprised that caravan manufacturers have put up with this shoddy product for so long without taking Hartal to task!!!
Regards
Alan
You will find that the current door lock is a HARTAL which is fitted as standard in nearly all makes of caravan.
There has been a major issue with Hartal locks for 2+ years now, the mechanism gets very stiff and you are finally in danger of breaking your key in the lock.
I have had two in 12 months on my new Bailey and on return from 3 months in Europe last month had to go to my dealer again and say this new one was worse than the last one!! They put a new one on order immediately, but stated that they had returned 40+ from various makes of caravan to Hartal this year. They pointed to the corner of the office which had a large pile of locks waiting to go back to Hartal.
The basic problem is that the interior locking bar is too big and the UK Hartal MD recommendation is to smear lots of Vaseline on it. But first you have to break the red & green caps in order to get at the screws underneath. Best option which was on this site by Gareth some months back was to use emery paper to slim the locking bar down a bit and then smear vaseline on it prior to re-assembly. There is a circlip to overcome which is easy enouth if you have circlip pliers - if not a real pain!!
If it is a van still under warranty then let the dealer sort it out.
I am very surprised that caravan manufacturers have put up with this shoddy product for so long without taking Hartal to task!!!
Regards
Alan
I have had the problem described by Alan. My van was only a year old at the time but I was due to go on holiday and could not wait for the dealer to sort it out. I stripped the lock down and thinned the plastic locking bar with emery paper, as Alan said, and it has worked perfectly for over a year now.
...but to answer Reg's question I don't know of any alternative supplier - I would be interested to know if it is possible to buy a tougher, more secure lock.
Keith
...but to answer Reg's question I don't know of any alternative supplier - I would be interested to know if it is possible to buy a tougher, more secure lock.
Keith
Firstly, I wouldn't consider changing a door lock just because of someone elses negative opinion of it, if it works fine then what is the point?
Secondly, I also wouldn't bother asking your dealer to fix the lock if it is stiff, the usual 'fix' is a hefty squirt of spray lubricant which doesn't work (and if you are really unlucky they will use WD40!) it's very easy to sort it yourself.
Secondly, I also wouldn't bother asking your dealer to fix the lock if it is stiff, the usual 'fix' is a hefty squirt of spray lubricant which doesn't work (and if you are really unlucky they will use WD40!) it's very easy to sort it yourself.
Hi
I'm more concerned with the security issue rather than the actual workings of the lock. I don't have a problem with the working of it.
It was implied to me that they are very easy to break in to. They do look pretty flimsy. Would adding another lock as well as the existing one be a viable alternative?
I'm more concerned with the security issue rather than the actual workings of the lock. I don't have a problem with the working of it.
It was implied to me that they are very easy to break in to. They do look pretty flimsy. Would adding another lock as well as the existing one be a viable alternative?
Hi Reg - I guessed that was what you were getting at - and I would be interested too. I agree they appear to be flimsy and easy to break into. I have considered the addition of the type that bolt through the caravan side or into the door frame ( I believe Fiamma and Milenco market them) but I am reluctant to drill the caravan, and I still think they could be broken open,using brute force.
I would be interested to hear any comments on this.
Keith
I would be interested to hear any comments on this.
Keith
I had the same problem as Alan, at a time when our grandchildren were patiently waiting to be taken to the beach!
His solution is spot on. I managed to remove the circlip with an electrical screwdriver keeping my hand over the top so as to catch it when it sprang off.
The whole thing took about 30 minutes but it is nice and free now. For added securuity, I have fitted a Fiamma security lock, the type that is commonly seen on motorhomes.
Barry
His solution is spot on. I managed to remove the circlip with an electrical screwdriver keeping my hand over the top so as to catch it when it sprang off.
The whole thing took about 30 minutes but it is nice and free now. For added securuity, I have fitted a Fiamma security lock, the type that is commonly seen on motorhomes.
Barry
Reg, you're right the lock is fairly flimsy and wouldn't take much effort to break it. Having said that, every other caravan door lock that I have seen is much the same!
The security of the door is only as good as it's weakest point and I don't think it would take too much to prise the door away from the frame, both parts being fairly lightweight.
The only serious solution would be to add an aftermarket device such as those mentioned above which I assume can only be used when you are out of the caravan i.e. not when you are inside asleep, however why bother with the door lock, just how secure are the windows?
The security of the door is only as good as it's weakest point and I don't think it would take too much to prise the door away from the frame, both parts being fairly lightweight.
The only serious solution would be to add an aftermarket device such as those mentioned above which I assume can only be used when you are out of the caravan i.e. not when you are inside asleep, however why bother with the door lock, just how secure are the windows?
I lost my caravan keys while on holiday once and was therefore unable to open the door. However, I had no problem in getting into the caravan with a minimum of tools and without doing any visible damage.
http://www.agentfiamma.co.uk/erol.html#1X0
Fiamma do a door security lock that bolts into the door frame reveal so that the 2 screws do not pierce the caravan side
I've had one for several years since the door was levered open and when changing the van 2 countersunk screws are placed in the holes which are inside the door frame and not noticeable
We even lock ouselves in with it when staying at a port overnight
Fiamma do a door security lock that bolts into the door frame reveal so that the 2 screws do not pierce the caravan side
I've had one for several years since the door was levered open and when changing the van 2 countersunk screws are placed in the holes which are inside the door frame and not noticeable
We even lock ouselves in with it when staying at a port overnight
It seems a bit pointless to go to great lengths to increase door lock security when the easiest way to get into the caravan without doing any damage is through a window.
It may be a window or door on the next caravan as thieves will go for the easiest target
As to going for a window my door was levered open as an easier option to a window and once open easier exit
Thieves aren't bothered about doing damage
The Fiamma lock prevents levering of the door open and if overnighting on quayside the noise of access via a window would be far greater than the picking of a lock or levering a door open
So for me it seems worthwhile
I am also able to attach a handle to the Fiamma lock to assist in climbing the van step
Will post a pic!!
As to going for a window my door was levered open as an easier option to a window and once open easier exit
Thieves aren't bothered about doing damage
The Fiamma lock prevents levering of the door open and if overnighting on quayside the noise of access via a window would be far greater than the picking of a lock or levering a door open
So for me it seems worthwhile
I am also able to attach a handle to the Fiamma lock to assist in climbing the van step
Will post a pic!!
On my caravan I have replaced the lock barrel with a circular type barrel Simerler to that fitted on a wheel clamp,(purchased from the local caravan dealer) this prevents turning the lock by forceind a scewdriver into the lock barrel I also drilled through the lock beak so that i can put a cotter pin in to prevent the lock beak being forced back.( for locking the van from inside)& also bought a personal alarm that attatch to the door handle so if the door is opened it sets of the alarm
The only other option is to fit the Fiamma lock as suggested by watson G http://www.agentfiamma.co.uk/erol.html#1X0
The only other option is to fit the Fiamma lock as suggested by watson G http://www.agentfiamma.co.uk/erol.html#1X0
I agree the lock in John's picture is a visible deterent, but I'm still not sure how strong it would be if brute force was used (as it would be). However, it is reasonably cheap (about
Hi Watson(JohnG)
Thanks for reply. That seems to be what I am looking for. Visible and it goes across both halves of the door
Can you tell me which type that is?
Fiamma Safe Door Frame (
Thanks for reply. That seems to be what I am looking for. Visible and it goes across both halves of the door
Can you tell me which type that is?
Fiamma Safe Door Frame (
Its this one :
DESCRIPTION Safe door Frame
Shares the same features as the SAFE DOOR (see above) but is installed into the inner frame of the door instead of through the wall. Ideal for application where installation through the wall panel is not possible. Easy installation with self tapping screws supplied.
Dimensions: 15 x 9 x 4.8 cm.
Note: A minimum 5mm space is required between the door and door frame.
Shares the same features as the SAFE DOOR but is installed into the inner frame of the door instead of through the wall. Ideal for application where installation through the wall panel is not possible. Easy installation with self tapping screws supplied. Polar White finish. Dimensions: 15x9x4.8 cm.
.
When we had the Senator it was easy to lock yourself in by sliding down the door window with the keys on a long string!!
In the Ace we employed the visual deterent kiddums approach
The lock was unbolted and secured just on the bottom screw so that it was through the top screw hole in the lock
This allowed the top half of the door to be opened for locking!!
DESCRIPTION Safe door Frame
Shares the same features as the SAFE DOOR (see above) but is installed into the inner frame of the door instead of through the wall. Ideal for application where installation through the wall panel is not possible. Easy installation with self tapping screws supplied.
Dimensions: 15 x 9 x 4.8 cm.
Note: A minimum 5mm space is required between the door and door frame.
Shares the same features as the SAFE DOOR but is installed into the inner frame of the door instead of through the wall. Ideal for application where installation through the wall panel is not possible. Easy installation with self tapping screws supplied. Polar White finish. Dimensions: 15x9x4.8 cm.
.
When we had the Senator it was easy to lock yourself in by sliding down the door window with the keys on a long string!!
In the Ace we employed the visual deterent kiddums approach
The lock was unbolted and secured just on the bottom screw so that it was through the top screw hole in the lock
This allowed the top half of the door to be opened for locking!!
Does anyone else remember the locks/keys used in the 70's?
As I recall, the same lock was used by every manufacturer, and there were only ( I think) 99 different keys
Caravan retailers used to keep a peg board with copies of every key, no ID was needed, you simply had to ask for 'a number 34', or 'a number 9', or whatever you required.
Armed with all the keys it would have been possible to enter just about every caravan in the UK! - freinds who managed a dealership that closed down gave me (among other caravan items) a box containg about 70 of these keys - which, I hasten to add, were not used for any nefarious purpose
As has already been stated, though, caravan locks are more of a serving suggestion than anything else - any self respecting 8 year old could force such a lock in a minute or two. When we owned MH's it always seemed faintly ridiculous to me that so much emphasis was placed on can door security (tips about chaining the door handles together, that sort of thing) when many MH's had 'garage' doors, and similar access points, that relied on the usual cheap plastic caravan door lock
As I recall, the same lock was used by every manufacturer, and there were only ( I think) 99 different keys
Caravan retailers used to keep a peg board with copies of every key, no ID was needed, you simply had to ask for 'a number 34', or 'a number 9', or whatever you required.
Armed with all the keys it would have been possible to enter just about every caravan in the UK! - freinds who managed a dealership that closed down gave me (among other caravan items) a box containg about 70 of these keys - which, I hasten to add, were not used for any nefarious purpose
As has already been stated, though, caravan locks are more of a serving suggestion than anything else - any self respecting 8 year old could force such a lock in a minute or two. When we owned MH's it always seemed faintly ridiculous to me that so much emphasis was placed on can door security (tips about chaining the door handles together, that sort of thing) when many MH's had 'garage' doors, and similar access points, that relied on the usual cheap plastic caravan door lock
Bear in mind that it is not just the door that is weak. Anyone with a crowbar can force a window in seconds. The only answer is to not leave anything of real value in the van, or trust to luck. Theft will also usually occur in certain locations such as carparks or even when the van is at home, and you are not. It is rare for theft to occur on a campsite, except ones such as Clumber Park where the site is open to the surrounding woodland.
You don't need to be so blunt and use a crowbar to open a window. I was able to get one open with just a simple wire coat hanger, doing absolutely no visible damage at all in the process.
Yes, you can also use a thin steel wand and push the catches open, however, some do have locks and there it is easy to use brute force.
I'm getting the drift now.......... first I need a reinforced door, preferably made of half inch steel plate. Then a lock probably similar to those they use on the doors at Pentoville prison.
Next the windows! Best bet I think would be bars and armour plate glass.
Now what about the roof-light? I'll get it welded up I think!
Then there's the floor...... well that could be easily got through with a drill and saw..... Half inch steel plate again?
Now I'm going to need to upgrade the tow car.... Hummer perhaps!
Wish that chap had never told me about his door being opened one night. Ignorance was bliss.
I think I'll just stick another lock on then at least 'er-in-doors will be happy.
Next the windows! Best bet I think would be bars and armour plate glass.
Now what about the roof-light? I'll get it welded up I think!
Then there's the floor...... well that could be easily got through with a drill and saw..... Half inch steel plate again?
Now I'm going to need to upgrade the tow car.... Hummer perhaps!
Wish that chap had never told me about his door being opened one night. Ignorance was bliss.
I think I'll just stick another lock on then at least 'er-in-doors will be happy.
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