Changing Calor gas cylinders/regulators

[oldagetraveller1]

I'm fairly new to caravanning in UK having spent 15 years in Europe.
I find it difficult to quickly change a Calor cylinder - especially when it's dark and blowing a gale which is usually when the need arises!
It seems that Calor deliberately design their cylinders to be difficult to change.Getting a spanner into such a tight space is a nightmare,and the 'touchy' nature of the thread doesn't help.
In Europe, we had 'clip-on' regulators - so easy and fool proof. Does anyone know if Calor cylinders can be adapted to a 'clip-on' system?

 

[Gafferbill]

You do not say what fitting you need but most fittings can now be purchased with a hand wheel, this does away with the need for a spanner and makes the changing of cylinder connections much easier.
Example of Calor propane hand wheel pigtail below.......

 

[oldagetraveller1]

Thanks, Gafferbill. Yes, I have fitted a handwheel but it's still a pain getting in to it and the thread is still 'touchy'.
Furthermore, it never 'seems' secure to me. Is the hand strong enough to securely tighten the connection???
The European system is just so simple and foolproof.
I suppose Calor, in their monopolistic position, can get away with such a tricky means of connecting.
Is there a realistic alternative supplier?

 

[Thingy]

You could perhaps have the automatic chageover system fitted. On mine, i have two bottles connected, when the pressure drops too low in one, it automatically changes to the second cylinder.

As for the fitting of the cylinder itself, try standing the cylinder on the A frame, attach the pig tail where you are comfiest and then place the connected bottle on its rest.

 

[oldagetraveller1]

Thanks. I can't sensibly have 2 cylinders in the boot permanently as I have an issue with noseweight.
I'll certainly try your suggestion of standing the cylinder on the A frame though.
My real point is that with a bit of effort, Calor could make the whole process much more user-friendly.
I just wish that others would enter the market. Calor's prices seem ridiculously high and with no competition to spur them on, they have no incentive to improve their product.

 

[emmerson]

Calor butane (blue) cylinders have clip-on regulators when used in heaters, so I suppose could be used on caravans?

 

[ProfJohnL]

...
I just wish that others would enter the market. Calor's prices seem ridiculously high and with no competition to spur them on, they have no incentive to improve their product.

There are plenty of other LPG suppliers in the UK. Some are national brands others are perhaps more local, but you are not tied to Calor Gas.

In the UK there are British Standards covering LPG cylinder connections systems, and you should find that Propane bottles from all suppliers use the "POL" connector. Butane is a little different, and depending on the application, the connector on the cylinder may be different.

As to using clip on regulators for cabinet type heaters in caravans, the first thing would be to check the operating output pressure is correct for the appliances in the caravan. And if you already have a bulkhead type regulator( as now fitted as standard in the UK) then you would almost certainly have gas delivery pressure problems if you tried to use a clip on regulator and the bulkhead regulator in series.

I suspect from your postings that you are not fully competent with gas installations an consequently I have to advise you not to attempt any modifications but instead refer you problems to a professional LPG gas fitter.

 

[Woodentop]

I may be wrong but I clip-ons are only available for patio gas and 13Kg Butane.

 

[paws]

Hi oldagetraveller1
There's an interesting article here from the late well respected John Wickersham
http://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/31928-how-to-get-the-best-from-your-gas-bottle-regulator

"Clips ons" work well with older caravans but not with newer ones or with any bulkhead regulators, so if you a have an older (generally pre 2004 or thereabouts model) you may be Ok

Best to check with your dealer or Calor or a caravan technician/engineer to be on the safe side...

If you have a newer van then it could be a bit of a problem in which case it may be worth considering trading it in for an older model!
Happy caravanning
regards
paws.

 

[RayS]

Some of the Continental clip ons are not that easy to use, in fact can be more difficult than the Calor left hand thread type. The 12.5 kg CEPSA in Spain has a concentic connector with a ring which as to be pressed down to lock it in place.
It also has a protective collar for the whole affair and it quite difficult to get sufficient downwards pressure if the cylinder is in the van locker. Standing on the A frame is not an option with the standard length hp rubber connection tube and since the gross weight is around 23 kg not easy to manouver the cylider into the locker if connected out of it.

Howver, with the contents costing only about 12 GBP for 12.5 kg of gas, changing is a once a year exercise it's well worth the trouble.

 

[bertieboy1]

Paws,
I;m trying to understand the source of your info
Our new caravan (2013) works ok with a clip on butane regulator.The van also has a bulkhead mounted regulator for propane.
Butane cylinders require a clip on regulator (28mB) and propane cylinders use the bulkhead regulator (30mB)
From what the OP says I don't think he understands the difference between butane and propane gas cylinder connections,he is obviously struggling with a propane cylinder connection unaware that for the butane cylinder connection the regulator clips directly on to the cylinder

 

[ProfJohnL]

Paws,
I;m trying to understand the source of your info
Our new caravan (2013) works ok with a clip on butane regulator.The van also has a bulkhead mounted regulator for propane.
Butane cylinders require a clip on regulator (28mB) and propane cylinders use the bulkhead regulator (30mB)
From what the OP says I don't think he understands the difference between butane and propane gas cylinder connections,he is obviously struggling with a propane cylinder connection unaware that for the butane cylinder connection the regulator clips directly on to the cylinder

Hello Bertie,

I'm not sure where you have your information. If your caravan has the bulkhead regulator, you cannot use a butane clip on regulator, as you will be feeding the HP side of the bulkhead regulator with only 28mBar. The nature of the 30mBar bulkhead regulator will not function properly if and in fact it will restrict the gas flow so teh real pressure you will be feeding your appliances will be less than 28mBar. That is dangerous.

What you need is a clip on connector with out the regulator but with the required High pressure fulham to accept the pig tail end.

 

[Woodentop]

Paws,
I;m trying to understand the source of your info
Our new caravan (2013) works ok with a clip on butane regulator.The van also has a bulkhead mounted regulator for propane.
Butane cylinders require a clip on regulator (28mB) and propane cylinders use the bulkhead regulator (30mB)
From what the OP says I don't think he understands the difference between butane and propane gas cylinder connections,he is obviously struggling with a propane cylinder connection unaware that for the butane cylinder connection the regulator clips directly on to the cylinder

You use the fixed regulator (30mB) for both Propane and Butane and just change the pigtail to give the correct cylinder connection.

Simples.

 

[Sproket]

I'm fairly new to caravanning in UK having spent 15 years in Europe.
I find it difficult to quickly change a Calor cylinder - especially when it's dark and blowing a gale which is usually when the need arises!
It seems that Calor deliberately design their cylinders to be difficult to change.Getting a spanner into such a tight space is a nightmare,and the 'touchy' nature of the thread doesn't help.
In Europe, we had 'clip-on' regulators - so easy and fool proof. Does anyone know if Calor cylinders can be adapted to a 'clip-on' system?

You could use one of these but you will have to obviously get a bottle and pigtail to suit ....
One of these from Homebase would work ok , or the Calor patio gas has the same fitting but it is very expensive for a refill, like anything it all depends on how much gas you are going to use.

 

[bertieboy1]

Prof,
My response is not based on information but is based on the arrangement that I use..When using propane the bottle is connected to the bulkhead regulator using a pigtail connecting hose,the bulkhead regulator has a fixed setting of 30mB.
When using butane the bottle has a connection for a clip on regulator (28mB).
What I cannot understand is the comment that this arrangement is dangerous.My understanding is that the bulkhead regulator will reduce the bottle pressure down to 30mB.If the bottle pressure is less than 30mB then the regulator will not reduce the pressure further.
When using butane the bottle mounted clip on regulator reduces the pressure down to 28mB (below 30mB),this is below the setting of the bulkhead mounted regulator and the gas will pass straight through without further pressure reduction at 28mB.
I cannot see how this is dangerous.
I have read the caravan manual (which is hopelessly inadequate) and there is nothing in it that describes this arrangement as dangerous.
Can you get butane bottles with a pigtail connection.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof,
My response is not based on information but is based on the arrangement that I use..When using propane the bottle is connected to the bulkhead regulator using a pigtail connecting hose,the bulkhead regulator has a fixed setting of 30mB.
When using butane the bottle has a connection for a clip on regulator (28mB).
What I cannot understand is the comment that this arrangement is dangerous.My understanding is that the bulkhead regulator will reduce the bottle pressure down to 30mB.If the bottle pressure is less than 30mB then the regulator will not reduce the pressure further.
When using butane the bottle mounted clip on regulator reduces the pressure down to 28mB (below 30mB),this is below the setting of the bulkhead mounted regulator and the gas will pass straight through without further pressure reduction at 28mB.
I cannot see how this is dangerous.
I have read the caravan manual (which is hopelessly inadequate) and there is nothing in it that describes this arrangement as dangerous.
Can you get butane bottles with a pigtail connection.

OK Bertie,

LPG regulators work by using a small diameter needle valve to bleed a small amount of high bottle pressure gas through to the low pressure output. the pressure on the low side is monitored by a diaphragm which modulates the needle valve. If you feed low pressure gas from the Butane regulator (which you tell us is a 28mBar model) when it reaches the needle valve in the bulkhead regulator, the size of the needle valve will put a major restriction on the flow into the caravans gas pipework. The restriction will prevent enough gas from reaching your appliances seriously under gassing them. It will affect the larger appliances more than smaller ones.

The low pressure gas issue is a problem as it means that appliances may not establish a stable flame which could easily be blown out , and where the burner is in the living space such as the hob or oven, low pressure can prevent the gas and air mixing correctly in the burner venturi tube and that can lead to incomplete combustion and dangerously raised carbon monoxide levels. Also with a weak flame on the hob, if the flame blows out some hobs do not have flame failure devise so could continue to vent unburnt gas into the living space. I hope the dangers are now obvious.

Gas appliances are designed to operate on a specified input gas pressure, and that is the only pressure you should use.

 

[Sproket]

Can you get butane bottles with a pigtail connection.

This is what it looks like to fit between your regulator & onto a normal 7kg or 12kg Calor Butane bottle

 

[bertieboy1]

Prof,
my apologies,Sprokets illustration of the butane connection is exactly what I use.
I mistakingly thought the device at the bottle connection was a regulator (I'd never really examined it).Now that I have I see it's just a quick connector.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof,
my apologies,Sprokets illustration of the butane connection is exactly what I use.
I mistakingly thought the device at the bottle connection was a regulator (I'd never really examined it).Now that I have I see it's just a quick connector.

Glad its sorted, and that should be fine.

 

[Dustydog]

I really don't understand the need to keep changing gas types. :dry:
All year use is propane.
Whilst butane has a marginally better calorific value why mess about.
Use one or the other that suits your individual style of tugging.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I really don't understand the need to keep changing gas types. :dry:
All year use is propane.
Whilst butane has a marginally better calorific value why mess about.
Use one or the other that suits your individual style of tugging.

Just to add that Propane is often cheaper than Butane, so win win

 

[Hutch]

Hi there oldagetraveller, looks like most people have gone a long way round this thread and have not answered your question. Bp gas do Propane cylinders, two cylinders 5kg and 10 kg , both have the clip on connector the same as Le Cube in France. The caravans in the uk operate the gas systems on the 30 millibar pressure to EN 1949 and BS 5482. The 28 mb conectors are not to EN 1949.
Hope this has helped
Hutch.