Check Your Warranties

[Parksy]

We own an Abbey 620 manufactured by Swift which we bought from new on 2nd October 2007. The caravan came with three years manufacturers parts warranty and six years body shell integrity warranty which gives us protection in the event of water ingress caused by joint or panel failure.
The warranty is valid subject to the caravan being serviced annually by an approved dealer or service engineer (NCC Approved) and we had the first two services carried out by the supplying dealer close to (but not on) the date when we bought our caravan and the warranties began.
There is normally some leeway in servicing dates and coming up to the third service I took this to be the case so the caravan would have been serviced at the end of October when our 'season' is winding down.
I thought that I'd check just how many days leeway there were by contacting the very helpful guys on the Swift Talk Forum and was surprised and alarmed when they replied that the 3rd and 6th services had to be done before the buying date - 2nd October

It seemed as though I'd invalidated my warranty by missing the service date by a few days!

The 3 years parts warranty has expired, no problem because we've been fortunate enough not to need to use it.
It would appear that Swift state that the six year bodyshell warranty was also invalid because of my oversight.

I should have checked and remembered that the service needed to be done before the 2nd of this month, it's up to the owner to check and not to rely on reminders from others.

Ash from Swift advised me to contact Swift Customer care which I promptly did to tell them my tale of woe. I was advised that although the bodyshell warranty is technically invalid because of the missed service date a note would be added to show that I'd been in touch. In the event of a future bodyshell problem my warranty claim would initially be rejected but Swift have agreed to treat any future claim sympathetically because of my genuine oversight.
Caravan owners should also be aware that a stamped service book is not accepted as evidence of regular servicing in the event of a claim. All invoices should be kept and produced to support such a claim, no invoices = no warranty.

A further twist to all this is that a Swift Talk forum member Eric, supported by Dustydog, wrote that in his handbook the six year warranty is treated separately to the 3 year Supersure parts warranty and the requirement to have this 3rd service done before the due date does not affect the bodyshell integrity warranty. My own handbook is inside the caravan at our storage and I'll have a good read early next week to find out if the Abbey handbook is the same as the Swift version. The moral of the story for all caravan owners who have warranties irrespective of manufacturer is to check the small print thoroughly, have a good look to find out if any clauses affect the warranty and remember these clauses rather than relying on dealers to emphasise the need for early servicing on key dates.
It will be interesting to see what will happen if my caravan service booklet has the same information as Eric's because this apparently differs from the information given now by Swift.

 

[Dustydog]

We own an Abbey 620 manufactured by Swift which we bought from new on 2nd October 2007. The caravan came with three years manufacturers parts warranty and six years body shell integrity warranty which gives us protection in the event of water ingress caused by joint or panel failure.
The warranty is valid subject to the caravan being serviced annually by an approved dealer or service engineer (NCC Approved) and we had the first two services carried out by the supplying dealer close to (but not on) the date when we bought our caravan and the warranties began.
There is normally some leeway in servicing dates and coming up to the third service I took this to be the case so the caravan would have been serviced at the end of October when our 'season' is winding down.
I thought that I'd check just how many days leeway there were by contacting the very helpful guys on the Swift Talk Forum and was surprised and alarmed when they replied that the 3rd and 6th services had to be done before the buying date - 2nd October

It seemed as though I'd invalidated my warranty by missing the service date by a few days!

The 3 years parts warranty has expired, no problem because we've been fortunate enough not to need to use it.
It would appear that Swift state that the six year bodyshell warranty was also invalid because of my oversight.

I should have checked and remembered that the service needed to be done before the 2nd of this month, it's up to the owner to check and not to rely on reminders from others.

Ash from Swift advised me to contact Swift Customer care which I promptly did to tell them my tale of woe. I was advised that although the bodyshell warranty is technically invalid because of the missed service date a note would be added to show that I'd been in touch. In the event of a future bodyshell problem my warranty claim would initially be rejected but Swift have agreed to treat any future claim sympathetically because of my genuine oversight.
Caravan owners should also be aware that a stamped service book is not accepted as evidence of regular servicing in the event of a claim. All invoices should be kept and produced to support such a claim, no invoices = no warranty.

A further twist to all this is that a Swift Talk forum member Eric, supported by Dustydog, wrote that in his handbook the six year warranty is treated separately to the 3 year Supersure parts warranty and the requirement to have this 3rd service done before the due date does not affect the bodyshell integrity warranty. My own handbook is inside the caravan at our storage and I'll have a good read early next week to find out if the Abbey handbook is the same as the Swift version. The moral of the story for all caravan owners who have warranties irrespective of manufacturer is to check the small print thoroughly, have a good look to find out if any clauses affect the warranty and remember these clauses rather than relying on dealers to emphasise the need for early servicing on key dates.
It will be interesting to see what will happen if my caravan service booklet has the same information as Eric's because this apparently differs from the information given now by Swift.

Parksy
At the risk of shouting at you, you have both a WARRANTY and GUARANTEE. They are vastly different. I'll explain more tomorrow unless Prof would like to oblige tonight

 

[readcaravans]

all the manufacturers state the servicing intervals and certainly they all state that the third service should be done before the date of purchase anniversary. it is for this reason we send an email reminder, 2 text reminders 7-8 weeks prior, and if we still do not get a response we will phone normally 3 weeks before the deadline. unfortunately some customers do not realise the significance of the servicing in regards to warranty and our work load. so when they do get our text or email, they will ignore it because they think they have 6-7 weeks to get it done when in reality we will already be at least 4 weeks booked up in advance. leading up to Easter this will extend

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Mr Read
My dealer, like you have a very heavy workload. They encourage us to book a year in advance!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Dusty for putting me on the spot!

I am sure that Parksy has read some of the many reminders I have posted on the subject to other people. Your topic should have been headed Check your guarantees.

Just a general note though, and this is not specifically aimed at Swift – I have seen large companies use the wrong words to describe both warranties and guarantees which leads to customer confusion.

This plays to the general ignorance that it seems many customers have about the subject and their legal rights under SoGA and related legislation.

 

[Parksy]

Parksy
At the risk of shouting at you, you have both a WARRANTY and GUARANTEE. They are vastly different. I'll explain more tomorrow unless Prof would like to oblige tonight

Wrong choice of wording from me DD but other members will get the gist and check the wording of their guarantees and warranties hopefully.

all the manufacturers state the servicing intervals and certainly they all state that the third service should be done before the date of purchase anniversary. it is for this reason we send an email reminder, 2 text reminders 7-8 weeks prior, and if we still do not get a response we will phone normally 3 weeks before the deadline

Perhaps I would have bought my caravan from Reads if I'd known this three years ago

To be honest I haven't been overjoyed with the service from our supplying dealers and I wasn't taking our caravan back to them this time.
They send these 'birthday card' reminders months in advance and that's it, nothing else at all.
The service reception staff seem rather rude and abrupt which puts my other half's back up no end, the service engineers leave dirty fingermarks all over the caravan inside and out and to cap it all after they apparently 'tested' the omnivent last time they closed the rooflight so tightly that it became completely stuck to the surrounding mastic. I tried it later and couldn't open it from inside the caravan with the knob so I took the caravan back to the dealer. The service engineer told me that the best thing to do would be to get some steps, lean over and lift up the skylight from the roof to free it at which point I finally lost all patience and informed him in no uncertain terms that I'd just that very morning paid them £245 labour charges to make sure that I didn't need to clamber about on step ladders to rectify faults caused by them

The only time that these clowns will ever see my caravan again or indeed any other caravan that I ever buy is if I need warranty or guarantee work carried out because they supplied the caravan and this is the last one that I will buy from them.
Their sales staff can't do enough for you but their service staff treat you like dirt.

 

[Dustydog]

Thank you Dusty for putting me on the spot!

I am sure that Parksy has read some of the many reminders I have posted on the subject to other people. Your topic should have been headed Check your guarantees.

Just a general note though, and this is not specifically aimed at Swift – I have seen large companies use the wrong words to describe both warranties and guarantees which leads to customer confusion.

This plays to the general ignorance that it seems many customers have about the subject and their legal rights under SoGA and related legislation.

Prof John
You are one of the few who knows about these things

. Later today I'll check out our Bailey handbook and do a bit more research.
It is as clear as daylight that Swift have told Parksy rubbish as far as his 6 year bodyshell integrity guarantee is concerned. If Swift get it wrong what chance has the dealer got or even worse us tuggers

 

[ProfJohnL]

Having given Parksy’s dilemma a little more thought, I can make the following observations.

It would be wise to seek professional legal advice before accepting any of the following points.

As I have previously suggested, Parksy’s problem is with his manufacturers guarantee, not his warranty (which is a statement of condition at the time of sale – like an MOT, only relates to that moment and is the core of the Sale of Goods Act which encompasses your Statutory Legal rights as a purchaser).

The manufactures guarantee, is entirely different. A manufacturer is not obliged to offer any guarantee, it is their choice and as such is in their gift, and because it is not legal requirement it is not bound by any statutory constraints, except that it must not require any party to undertake any illegal activity. As a result the terms and conditions can be very prescriptive – even down to time interval for service or inspections.

It is important to understand that the manufacturers guarantee is as much a contract as when you actually pay for something, the fact that no monies have changed hands is not relevant.

Contracts are agreements made between two or more parties that defines how each party will act if certain specified circumstances occur. Unless a contract is deemed by a court to be legally unfair, all parties are bound by the terms and conditions (the small print).

Now it all hinges on what the wording of Parksy’s copy of the manufacturers guarantee documentation. That is controlling document in this case. It does not matter what any other caravanner has, just as in any other contract situation it is a matter of what was agreed by the parties to the contract, which could be different to contracts with other customers. (Different guarantees are quite possible between models and brands even though they are owned by the same company)

No party can change the terms and conditions in any way that might restrict the execution of contract without the full agreement of all the other parties-unless the terms and conditions includes a changes clause that covers the issue. It is likely that change to any aspect that is central to a contract (i.e. foreshortening service intervals in this case) could be challenged.

With regards to the timing of required actions especially where they are significant to maintaining the validity of a contract, if the contact details times and limits, those are the ones that must be adhered to. The manufacture cannot reduce those sorts of terms without giving written notice and depending on the terms and conditions asking for the approval of the other parties to the contract.

I have implied that each manufactures guarantee is a unique document and contract, and legally it is, but given the fact that caravan manufacturers are not in the habit of striking separate and special deals as a matter of course, it is highly unlikely that Parksy’s contract is different to any other struck at the same time.

But manufactures guarantees struck at different times either before or after may be different. Older contracts may still be limited to their original terms and may not be eligible to benefit from any new criteria offered in newer contracts.

For example, it was quite common for a car manufacturer to offer a 12000 mile guarantee, but at some point in time they decide to offer a 60000mile guarantee. Anyone who purchased a product on the day before the 60Kmiles guarantee came into force has no legal right to expect their product to be offered the better guarantee.
As Parksy says its all down to the small print.

 

[Surfer]

These warranties and guarantees mean squat when it comes to SOGA. Lets assume that you had your caravan serviced at a non Swift dealer who had a certificate of competence then two years down the line there is a major system failure and you then approached the original dealer from whom you bought. Under SOGA that dealer is obliged to do the repair if they cannot prove that lack of service caused the fault. Any T & Cs imposed by the dealer or manufacturer relating to binding the custoerm to having a servcie at a swift dealer would be meaningless under the Unfair terms regulations.
As a matter of interest how many faults are directly related to a servcie issue. My guess is very few which is why they continue to rip us off.

 

[Dustydog]

It's worth reading the Swift Talk Forum on this subject. Swift seem to be struggling with the interpretation of their own wording!

Thanks Prof John for your input. The Bailey wording is similar as I suspect is Lunar and other manufacturers.
Swift will hopefully give a clear explanation next week.

http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/forum/topics/servicing-to-preserve-warranty?commentId=2976642%3AComment%3A30382&xg_source=msg_com_forum

 

[readcaravans]

These warranties and guarantees mean squat when it comes to SOGA. Lets assume that you had your caravan serviced at a non Swift dealer who had a certificate of competence then two years down the line there is a major system failure and you then approached the original dealer from whom you bought. Under SOGA that dealer is obliged to do the repair if they cannot prove that lack of service caused the fault. Any T & Cs imposed by the dealer or manufacturer relating to binding the custoerm to having a servcie at a swift dealer would be meaningless under the Unfair terms regulations.
As a matter of interest how many faults are directly related to a servcie issue. My guess is very few which is why they continue to rip us off.

not completely true.
a dealer could argue that the service had not been completed correctly especially when it comes to the damp test. so a potential water ingress problem could be ignored causing even more problems, similar to an oil leak on an engine being ignored and then the engine seizes. the leak could be covered by warranty but not subsequent damage to the interior wallboard. this is why it is important to make sure the servicing is done correctly. if a manufacturer says the vehicle has to be serviced to maintain the warranty (car, caravan, bike etc. the difference with a caravan being the water ingress issue. servicing with damp test becomes a preventative measure), it has to be adhered to. if you do not, any subsequent problems is looked at by the dealer or manufacturer on an individual basis and/or goodwill and is not obliged to do any repair.

 

[readcaravans]

going back to the original post by parksy in my experience, although what he been said is true, swift are very understanding in this particular situation. should there be a water ingress problem, they will look at any claims as goodwill. the fact that the servicing has been kept up to date, even if the 3rd was slightly late, there is a service history. plus the fact it was done by a swift dealer and not an independent will also strengthen any subsequent claims.

furthermore, evidence of servicing if required needs to be a copy of the service schedule, damp test report and invoice for each and every service. a stamped handbook for any warranty company, be it either the manufacturer or a independent company covering extended or used warranty, will not be accepted as proof of servicing. so for anyone else reading this thread, please make sure whoever completes your servicing you get the correct paperwork.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Dusty for the link.

I am not a member of Swift Talk so I have not previously followed the discussion on there.

I fully agree with you that no party can import new terms or interpretations into a contractual agreement, without the approval of all parties involved.

I cannot emphasis enough that it is the written document that Parksy has that controls the arrangments for his caravan. At this point it is supposition that his documents are same as those others have quoted from. But let us assume they are the same and as has been pointed out there is a T&C that states the body work guarantee is separate from the 3yr guaranteed items, then I have little doubt in my mind that he has not invalidated his body work guarantee.

If the above paragraph is correct, them Parksy hopefully be able to rest easy, because if a manufacturer tried to change those terms as set out in his contract, Parksy would in my view have a strong case for breach of contract by disadvantaging the customer.

Reading the thread on Swift Talk, I cannot help but get the impression there has been a misunderstanding, and the CS operative has given out an answer that can be interpreted incorrectly . Heavens we all know that the T&C of so many guarantees are often filled with pages of small print much of which is designed by lawyers and is almost unintelligible, and contrary to many peoples opiions customer services operatives are human also.

I urge Swift to own up to this one.

 

[Dustydog]

Parksy
It is abundantly clear your post on Swift Talk has opened up a real can of worms!

Swift have had the benefit of many words of wisdom from a number of forum members , some of whom clearly have a legal background.

Whilst Swift have promised a definitive response "soon" it is disappointing that the very Organisation that drew up their own Contract Wordings cannot respond more quickly.
The corollary may be that if they don't know , what chance has the poor caravan owner got?

This must be a sign of the times.

 

[Parksy]

Swift have now clarified the position as regards the 6 year body shell integrity guarantee. The full text can be read Here but in brief my 6 year body shell warranty is intact provided that the caravan is serviced within 90 days before and 60 days after the anniversary of purchase by a Swift Group approved dealer or service engineer. The caravan must be serviced before the sixth anniversary of purchase and the expiry of the guarantee. The confusion arose because the Swift Sure 3 year parts warranty expires on the third anniversary of the purchase date and if any warranty work needed to be carried out the service would have to be done before the 36 month warranty expiry date.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Parksy,

I'm sure that is weight of your mind