Choosing the wrong layout

[nrdonnelly]

Dear All,

I'm just putting together a short feature for the magazine on things to think about before handing over your money for a new caravan and I was wondering whether any of you have ever bought a caravan whose layout just didn't work for you?

I ask because a reader called the office this morning and told us that he'd just bought a fixed bed van for the first time, and after his first week away, is begging the dealer to take it back for sensible money so he can get another rear-washroom two-berth. He says that it's too big and has too poor a lounge for him to enjoy it.

Easy to say he should have thought about it first and so on, but his mistake is about to cost him a four figure sum so I'm quite sympathetic...

Anyone made a similar mistake?

Regards

Nigel Donnelly

Editor

Practical Caravan

 

[RogerP]

Hi Nigel

we sort of made a mistake when we purchased a motorhome last year. We'd had motohomes for years before when it was just me and the wife. We then decided to start a family and sold the MH

Last year we missed it so much we decided to buy another one. Whilst the layout was what we wanted and we did huge amount of resrearch and visiting forcourts , it was the practicallity we hadn't factored for.

Having to go for a lot bigger MH than we'd previously had we didn't account for the restrictions that would give us in how we wanted to use the MH.

To that end , after 2 outings in 3 months , we took the painful (for the wallet) decision to change to a caravan.

I have to say we did consider a caravan as well as the MH but towing was putting us off.

Now we've taken the leap , in hindsight , a caravan was the right option.

 

[RogerL]

I always make a point of viewing dealerships at quiet times and asking the salesman if we can just sit on our own for a while. Without interruption, it's not difficult to visualise each of the daily routines and see how the layout works.

Having seen the narrow centre gangway on many modern caravans I'm not surprised at your reader preferring the wide space of older two-berths.

 

[Auvergne]

Hi,

We owned a Bailey Pageant Auvergne as our first van which worked relatively well as the kids could have "their end" and we had ours. The restricted kitchen worktop space caused us problems as there was nowhere to dish up dinner without putting the flap over the sink to make more surface, then nowhere to put the dirty pot because the sink was covered etc. The wardrobes were in the middle of the van as was the toilet and it seemed to cut the width down so we decided to go for something bigger and more open. The other factor was the making up and taking down of the bed and the "roll together factor" of making the bed this way.

We traded the Auvergne in and last May we bought a Lunar Ultima, fixed bed, 6ft 1" bench seats with a view to our two teenagers sleeping on the seats. However, it soon became apparent that my son couldn't sleep on one as he was too long so had to go on the floor. This was the final straw and they no longer wanted to come out with us (not that they were overly fussy in the first place). We were at first delighted with the end washroom but at the end of the day we always use sites with toilets/showers anyway. I think I was swayed by my parents to go for the big end bathroom but on reflection they only go on rallies, never to a site with its own toilets and showers so our need was different. The length of the van made it a nightmare to get into our storage pitch, the weight of the van made it impossible to move by hand. The mover on it was so slow and made the "rocking movement", lurching around with a mind of its own it appeared. Every weekend away was spent worrying over whether we would get it back in its parking space again and there were times when I said "Lets give it a miss" because of the pantomime getting it in and out, it just wasn't worth the aggravation. As an aside, after we had bought it we realised our BMW was on the towing limit so forked out for a Sorento to pull the bl**dy thing.

In December we sold it and as we sold privately only lost about

 

[Chaps]

We bought our first van in October last year and up to now we think we've got it right. Claire did hours and hours of research, bought lots of magazines including back issues from eBay as we were originally looking to buy 2nd hand. The main issue for us was that we needed a 5 berth and our 3 kids didn't want to share beds. One of our 12 year old twins is already around 5'5" tall and quite well built so this meant that the UK vans we saw were out of the question as the bunks were just too narrow. It was only by taking the kids with us and letting them try out the bunks that we found this out. Lots of our local dealers keep their vans locked and escort you when you want to look around them but we did find one where the vans were open and this made checking out important minor details much easier. We were always very careful and instructed the kids "look with your eyes not your hands" but it was clear that not everyone had done this as there were lots of bits and bobs broken in the display models. Mind you, this also gave a good indication of build quality.

Another issue we came across was that some dealers would say that our car, at the time a 1.6 Petrol Zafira, would be well capable of towing the models we were looking at and we knew this to be false. We always intended changing the car to tow but thought that dealers not checking kerbweights etc when specifically asked if a car was suitable was not at all professional and made us question their integrity.

RogerL's point about going to dealers at quieter times is an excellent one. We chose a Geist AK495 in the end having visited their Gateshead dealership right at the end of the day one saturday last July. We were given a very thorough demonstration of how the beds were made up etc and were even allowed to have a go at it ourselves. This was really useful as bed making can be such a chore and we were able to see that in this particular model it wasn't too bad (fixed rear bunks mean less night-time cushion wrangling!). This model gives the kids their own "room" both during the day and at night and works well for us. Could do with more kitchen worktop space; the drop down flap on the new triple bunk Bailey Ranger is an excellent idea and we may consider some alterations to ours when it's out of warranty.

Mind you, we're already dreaming of the day when the oldest 2 don't want to come anymore and we can have a fixed island rear bed 4-berth!

 

[Kitty1]

We had the opposite experience I spent a long time researching caravan layouts and decided that an end dinette arrangement would suit us for taking the grandchildren away ie they could be put to bed at one end while we sat at the other.

We then got the opportunity to buy privately an end washroom side dinette 'van, not what I had set my heart on at all. We have had this van (our first) for a year now and it is absolutely perfect for us. I now know the centre washroom would have been too small and cramped for us and for the odd occasion the kids come with us the bunks work very well.

 

[Tapestry]

Hi

We have had 2 different layouts, the first a 5 berth twin dinette Swift which we liked and worked for us. 2 years ago, we decided to change to a 6 berth with fixed bunks at the rear. We bought a new series 5 Pageant Bretangue.

We did lots of research, reading reviews, articles in magazines, the internet etc and visiting dealers and caravan shows, looking at different makes, models etc. I/we took the kids with us to see vans on our short list. Our kids tried the bunks to see if they liked them, what they thought of the ladders etc, we opened cupboards, tried sitting on seats, lying on the seats etc. Our youngest has Autistic Spectrum Disorder and can find change difficult so it was important he felt happy with the layout etc. I asked dealers to unlock any caravans we might be interested in, if they wanted a sale, we needed to be as sure as we could be that the van would work for us before parting with the cash. We went home, talked about what we thought, then back for a second look before buying.

On our Bretangue we didn't like the location of the TV point so had another point put in near the front chest before picking the van up, something our previous Swift had. Our Series 5 works for us. We hardly ever use a microwave at home, so did not see the point of waiting for the Series 6 Bretangue. I looked at Series 7 Bretangue yesterday at a dealers out of interest, nice van but layout wouldn't work as well for us as our Series 5.

We have had 2 different layouts, both we liked and worked for us.We prefer the layout we have in our Series 5 Bretangue. Both vans had windows in the rear, something we like.

The most important thing before buying is to think about how you will live and use the van.

Annette

 

[ValA.]

Although we kept our first new van for six years, I really don't think the layout 'worked for us' from the first time we used it. We had two boys, aged 14 and 9 when we bought our Sprite Europa 490C in 1995 - with a rear single dinette which converted to bunks. The toilet/shower compartment was in the centre of the van, opposite the kitchen - and between the external door and the front seats. I'm a keen cook, and whenever I was cooking someone had to 'squeeze' past me to get to either the toilet, or the seats at the front of the van. When the toilet compartment door was opened (outwards) it used to hit me as I stood in the kitchen area - It used to drive me mad!!!! Like all caravans, too, it didn't have enough plug sockets - why oh why do they skimp by providing so few???

Within a year and a half the boys were also too big to use the bunks - and so began sleeping outside in a pup tent.

We really thought we had researched thoroughly before buying - and our previous Elddis Shamal (old type) had had the same layout, but somehow not the problems. However, thinking back it didn't have a toilet in the toilet compartment - we always managed with the site facilities, and I think the door opened into the toilet compartment, rather than outwards.

I think caravan dealers are often too keen to sell you a caravan, rather than to thoroughly research what you require - and could be much more pro-active in making suggestions as to layouts to suit your particular needs. For example they could have a preliminary questionnaire which you could fill in, imagining how you might use the caravan - and with all the computer technology available now could 'match' your requirements with the models they offer. This could be done in much the same way as kitchen designers find out what you want and then 'compute' you a layout to suit. Ideally we could all design our own caravans, within a certain size of body shell - and get all the fixtures and feedings we need, and leave out those we don't.

We absolutely love our current van - a Swift Speedbird 490 with wrong side door, no oven, and not many 'frills' - but are now having trouble find a replacement. When we bought our Europa all sorts of things weren't included in the basic specification, but you chose to 'add them' if required. This included an oven, fly-screens and blinds, outside plug socket, etc. Oh for a computer programme which could match my needs to a model already in production, or for a manufacturer who could be more adaptable in terms of what is supplied as standard.

 

[ValA.]

Sorry, in the above post it should read 'fittings' rather than 'feedings'. Freudian slip, me thinks!

 

[RichL812]

After weeks of discussion and research etc we have just been out over the last couple of weekends with our friends to 'sense check' their choice (we both have 4 berth end bathrooms) of a new caravan.

With price being an essential factor, all three were about the same price -

 

[scottiemad]

We have 2 smallish teenage boys and have fixed bunks at the rear. They can dump all their rubbisih on the beds during the day, draw the curatians and no one sees it. As i get up during the night (old age!) we sleep on the seats at the front using them as singles. Have the excellent Snoozy wraps from Jonic and we sleep better in the van than at home. Never fancied the fixed bed idea as someone would have to crawl over the other one if not an island bed! You do need to do lots of research its true. Like the originator of this post we were led to believe by the dealers that our 1.6 diesel picasso would tow an Avondale 556 and after taking it to the storage site we realised it was too heavy so were lucky enough to be able to swap it for a 475. Even then the picasso sturggles so we are getting another car - secondahnd Nissan Qashqai. This caravan business has cost us a big out lay but we know we have made the right choice as the times we have been away in it have been some fo the best family times and relaxing times we have ever had. Also the layout works for us at the moment. Although the washroom is small and you struggle to get the paper when you are on the loo we would hope that by the time the boys have left home or whatever we can go for a 2 berth with larger washroom and stay on cl's.

 

[Del_374232870]

in the mid 90's when the daughter grew out of hollidaying with us we changed to a 2 berth end bedroom layout, whilst it seemed the right layout at the time it soon proved the wrng decision ,as soon as we bought the 2 bert the daughter decided she wanted to caravan with us again.

We then changed to a Lexon EB fixed bed model , which gave us the advantage of a fixed bed and option of 2 beds for guests, which for us was a reat improvement. We have since upgraded to a Delta EW which gives us a fixed bed, full end washroom and the option of 2 extra berths for guests. So for us we have the perfect layout to meet our needs. Worrying thing is finding a replacement in a few years time.

 

[Chaps]

Richard's idea of a 'test drive' is excellent. I'd even be prepared to pay a small rental fee, perhaps refundable if you buy a caravan from the dealer. Mind you, I suspect that the dealers would be worried that you'd see the caravan 'warts and all' and that this might put you off buying one. It's actually good business for them when we get it wrong as they get to take in a nearly new van on part exchange for much less than it's worth, can make a big profit on the resale and they get their mark up on the next van too.

The best thing we did was asking fellow caravanners what their wish list would be and then tried to match these and our own ideas to the vans available. That's what's so good about this forum as loads of people are happy to help.

 

[alunhve]

Choosing the right layout can be an extremely difficult decision. Our first caravan was chosen after our oldest had stopped coming away with us and the 2 singles/front double and bunks at the rear worked ok for us for a number of years.We then found that it was just the two of us so changed to a 2 berth end washroom as it did not like we would be seeing anything of our only grandchild after his parents separated.

We then ended up with our grandson regularly coming away with us which was not a problem with him sharing the big made up double whilst he was little but it started reaching the point where it was not convenient so we upgraded to a four berth with a fixed bed.

Then within a few years a combination of our son starting to borrow the caravan to go away with his new partner and her little girl and his son plus us using the caravan for more of the year and occasionally sites without full facilities we changed to a four berth with side dinnette and end washroom. Whilt we are pleased with this we are already approaching a situation where this may not prove to be the best layout as the grandson is now 15 and therefore too heavy for the upper bunk, we now have my brother in law frequently coming away with us and our son's partner due to have a baby later in the summer.

So it will always be difficult to determine the right layout for a long period unless you are in the situation where you know that your needs will never change. Fortunately the variety of layouts available amongst the caravan manufacturers means that there is usually something that will meet the needs of the time but size constraints will often mean some degree of compromise.

Alun

 

[sandy_374363922]

Last year we thought it would be a good idea to change from our caravan to a motorhome, this was probably our biggest mistake especially with needing layout for a family. Also it wasn't the most practical getting about with, so much so we have just picked up our caravan and lost a lot of money in the process, but from past experience we bought a 5 berth with dinner at both ends so the the kids could sleep on the long beds at the front and a double at the back. perfect layout for family of 4, for us but you need to try many options before spending your money.

 

[Surfer]

I find the idea of a test drive rather humourous although it is also a good idea. Imagine the rental stock that a dealer would need to carry. Totally unviable and suicidal.

Do you test drive a house before you buy it? Many of us have bought houses that we have had to adapt to and then at a later stage adapted it to what we want.

Tough luck if you buy a caravan with a layout not suited to yourselves as it was your decision. This has happened a lot to pewople who bought motor homes and then decided to go b ack to caravanning with a caravan.

We made thsi mistake with a new car and had to trade it in 6 months later losing

 

[sandy_374363922]

As harsh as it is, its your decision to buy not the dealers fault and as stated even if you were to be able to try you might still make the wrong choice, you just have to accept it and move on. But it is really worth while visiting many dealers and having a list and noting down the benefits from each layout and do this with everyone thats likely to stay in the van remembering its bedmake up time thats most cluttered. At the end of the day all layouts and caravan versus motorhome is all a compomise there's not such a thing as a perfect layout.

 

[Marsha_374361062]

We were looking at the end bunks option at first but ended up with an end washroom 560. I think this really works for us, we have more space up front and can open the bathroom door on a night for more floor space (we need to take our 2 big dogs with us) I prefer the bathroom being out of the way, same with the wardrobe even if it's a leap in the middle of the night (inc over the dog)to get to the toilet. The boys have bunks in the middle, which I know won't last them forever (my 7 year old is close to 5ft tall so they're not going to be mini size kids) but we'll just have to change when the time comes. Maybe we'll just get them an annex for the awning and throw them outside when they get too big

 

[CameronBurns]

4 berth fixed bed tourers don't work if you have children. as they go to bed before the adults, which means that you have to put them on the fixed bed to sleep, while you relax in the lounge. then, when you go to bed, you have to move them on to the bed at the front so you can get into bed. it sounds complicated because it is.

also lounges next to the door don't work as when someone comes in, whoever is sat down gets either sun, wind or rain.

 

[Marsha_374361062]

I've just got in serious trouble with my partner, for after only recently buying our first caravan and only spending 2 nights in it so far I'm looking at what we'll need next when the boys get too big, hahaha, he didn't look impressed.

 

[nrdonnelly]

Thanks for all the replies. There's some really interesting stuff here.

Best regards and thanks

Nigel Donnelly

Editor

Practical Caravan

 

[ValA.]

Nigel, what might be another interesting topic is why some people change caravans so frequently. I've read postings on here and other forums, stating that in three years people have had four (or more) new caravans! I wonder why - maybe these are the people who regularly choose the wrong layout for their needs - or perhaps just those who can't make their minds up about what they really want. I've also read recently that someone with a Series 6 Bailey was changing it for the Series 7 (so the 'old' van could only be a year or so old anyway).

We had our first van for a year, as a trial to see if we liked caravanning (we did) so then we bought our first new van, kept that six years, and have had our current van eight years.