Clean Air Zones

Jul 15, 2008
3,474
402
20,935
I thought I would check out the ever increasing number of these zones to see how my vehicles are affected.
I have a 12 year old 1.4 litre Diesel that when new was classed as very low polluting and has an annual VED of £30
My 20 year old tow car is a 2.7 litre diesel 4x4 ......admittedly a relatively a high polluting vehicle that has an annual VED of £315.

Both cars now have to pay a daily charge (fine) to enter London.
London is now soon to be defined as almost everywhere within the M25.
LEZ outer zone for either vehicle no charge
ULEZ inner zone for either vehicle is £15 -17.50

Birmingham CAZ both cars have to pay a daily charge of £8 to enter.

Bath and Portsmouth CAZ both cars pay no charge to enter.

I know I could buy younger so called less polluting vehicles but my decision for now is not to drive in any of these areas that have a daily charge.;)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dustydog
Jun 20, 2005
14,913
2,148
40,935
I can’t think of one reason why I would want to drive into London. Where to park? The Park and Ride schemes are reasonably good. Maybe your survey demonstrates yet again how the poor old motorist suffers yet again another stealth tax🙀.
SWMBO. Kia Cee’d is one of the cleanest diesel burners, VED £30. Mr Blair told me to go diesel, to maintain clean air zones😜😜
 
Jul 18, 2017
7,575
1,903
22,935
I thought I would check out the ever increasing number of these zones to see how my vehicles are affected.
I have a 12 year old 1.4 litre Diesel that when new was classed as very low polluting and has an annual VED of £30
My 20 year old tow car is a 2.7 litre diesel 4x4 ......admittedly a relatively a high polluting vehicle that has an annual VED of £315.

Both cars now have to pay a daily charge (fine) to enter London.
London is now soon to be defined as almost everywhere within the M25.
LEZ outer zone for either vehicle no charge
ULEZ inner zone for either vehicle is £15 -17.50

Birmingham CAZ both cars have to pay a daily charge of £8 to enter.

Bath and Portsmouth CAZ both cars pay no charge to enter.

I know I could buy younger so called less polluting vehicles but my decision for now is not to drive in any of these areas that have a daily charge.;)
We also avoid theses places that have imposed a CAZ mainly due to the cost. Their loss and our gain. Don't like driving in cities anyway with all the stop go traffic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Challenger
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
When I had a Pajero it was wrongly classified as the commercial model and was liable fir charges if entering the London CAZ. I had it reclassified and it wasn’t then liable. Strange as it’s the same dirty polluting 2.8 engine in both. But Defenders had the same problem.

We now both drive petrols which so far aren’t affected other than the very much older ones in some CAZ.
 
May 7, 2012
7,421
1,243
25,935
This is going to be a problem for many as more and more cities and even towns go this way. It will be possible to carry on for some time yet, but it will need great care in researching where you can go or just biting the bullet and paying up. Assuming the rules on polluting vehicles do not get any more stringent which might be a long shot, you might find that not too far down the line you can get a good second hand vehicle that will work for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ProfJohnL
Aug 25, 2011
226
26
18,585
I will not enter any town that is going to charge me to enter, ( my VED is £20 ).

I will not pay to enter Birmingham cheaper to use bus pass with 10 min dive free parking and on Metro, or leave motor at home and catch a bus to the Metro.

By the way buss pass is OAP one.

Trevor
 
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
I will not enter any town that is going to charge me to enter, ( my VED is £20 ).

I will not pay to enter Birmingham cheaper to use bus pass with 10 min dive free parking and on Metro, or leave motor at home and catch a bus to the Metro.

By the way buss pass is OAP one.

Trevor
That’s what the city council want you to do. Stop using cars in the Center. Using a bus pass and civic transport is a no brainer if it’s available. I would chose to do that even if a CAZ wasn’t in place. You would still have to use a pay car park anyway.
 
Oct 8, 2006
1,443
332
19,435
When I had a Pajero it was wrongly classified as the commercial model and was liable fir charges if entering the London CAZ. I had it reclassified and it wasn’t then liable. Strange as it’s the same dirty polluting 2.8 engine in both. But Defenders had the same problem.

We now both drive petrols which so far aren’t affected other than the very much older ones in some CAZ.
The thing that is always overlooked is that the emissions from a diesel (that has a service record) will vary very little with age, whereas the emissions from a petrol engine will meet spec when new but will get worse and worse with age to the point that many 8-10 year old vehicles will no longer get through the MoT without expensive work.

The main issue is that the charging (local?) authority base the charging solely on the Euro rating and not what is real. My daughter has a child with health problems which necessitates using a (VW) van to be able to carry all the equipment that may be needed. It is Euro5 and has emissions slightly lower than my Passat Euro6. However as the van is rated a commercial vehicle she has to pay when I don't.

At least the child has a Blue Badge which negates the charge, BUT every time they go into the charging area they get a fine from the council until they show that the BB was being used whence the fine is scrapped. For some reason the council don't seem to want to learn!
 
Last edited:
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
The thing that is always overlooked is that the emissions from a diesel (that has a service record) will vary very little with age, whereas the emissions from a petrol engine will meet spec when new but will get worse and worse with age to the point that many 8-10 year old vehicles will no longer get through the MoT without expensive work.
Why then do the various CAZ allow older petrol cars to enter than they do diesel cars? It’s because the Emmisions of petrol are lower than diesel in the particulates.
 
Mar 14, 2005
1,149
154
19,235
There has been a suggestion locally that the introduction of the CAZ in Bath, has led to increased pollution in surrounding areas,who would have thought it? Not the people who brought in the CAZ for sure. We will not visit,therefore not spend any money, in any town that seeks to penalise motorists with CAZ,so we stay local or if away in the van support local businesses to where we are staying, so winners and losers, it's probably me, but I detest this political posturing in the name of the green agenda., particularly in the case of Bath which chooses to be selective, so if I were to take our Peugeot Partner van into Bath I pay the CAZ, but if I drive the Peugeot Partner with windows I don't pay the CAZ, same engine, same vehicle to all intent, as i say political posturing.
 
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
There has been a suggestion locally that the introduction of the CAZ in Bath, has led to increased pollution in surrounding areas,who would have thought it? Not the people who brought in the CAZ for sure. We will not visit,therefore not spend any money, in any town that seeks to penalise motorists with CAZ,so we stay local or if away in the van support local businesses to where we are staying, so winners and losers, it's probably me, but I detest this political posturing in the name of the green agenda., particularly in the case of Bath which chooses to be selective, so if I were to take our Peugeot Partner van into Bath I pay the CAZ, but if I drive the Peugeot Partner with windows I don't pay the CAZ, same engine, same vehicle to all intent, as i say political posturing.
It’s been like that in London now for a long while. Same engine in a commercial Defender attracts a charge where one in the estate variant no charge. As I said I had to have my 1995 Pajero reclassified as it was the non commercial private version but had been incorrectly classified as the commercial variant.

Baths restrictions have made it difficult for hgvs coming down the A46 and wanting to head south onto the A36, or other routes into Somerset. They have been banned. So they go via Trowbridge, Westbury and join the A36 at Warminster. But the recommended route is via the A350 which effectively removes them from town centres other than Westbury which is in dire need of a bypass. But its easy to criticise Bath but what options were there. The A46 southbound traffic has to head west on the A4 and then cross the river to join the southbound A36. It passes through heavily populated city streets. What alternative could reasonably be offered to reduce the high levels of pollution in the centre area of Bath?

We always take the bus or train unless going into Bath for the evening when public transport for our return isn’t good.

PS when we visited Germany we had the TUV stickers to access defined areas but in effect we preferred the park and ride schemes. I don’t see it as penalising motorists as there are legal limits fir air quality which are consistently broken throughout the country. Residents have rights too. As electric vehicles come on line the issues will diminish and we can go back to sitting in traffic queues, looking for a parking space and watching the world go by.
 
Last edited:
Mar 14, 2005
1,149
154
19,235
Hi Other Clive
Thanks for the reply, I am not sure that Bath really thought through the CAZ, as you say it is diificult to avoid traffic going through the residential areas, but it is the political posturing that I object to most, if they really wanted to reduce the pollution from the centre then they would have banned all ICE vehicles except for Police , Fire or Ambulance,,and issued residents permits. I find it interesting that Bristol has paused it's plans to introduce CAZ,of course if both cities did ban ICE vehicles completely, they could lose lots of money from shoppers, parking charges etc.and some businesses may choose to relocate to the outskirts, where motorists could have easy access and free parking. Whatever decisions politicians take, I think there will be a hardcore of drivers that will choose to use their vehicles,many are not convinced that electric is the way to go, and for work and pleasure, the park and ride is not an option,for example our work involve multiple drop deliveries,we have already taken the decision not to deliver to Stroud when the council made it impossible for us to get to certain customers in the town centre, Gloucester has designated loading bays, often blocked by private cars and disabled badge holders illegally, same with Cheltenham, Forest of Dean seems to be less interested in 'persecuting' the motorist, but they do not have large towns or many main roads, and I supect a combination of factors such as the trees and open countryside help. I don't pretend to have the answers, but get frustrated when it seems that the motorist get's the blame, and as I understand it 1% is accepted as this countries contribution to emissions worldwide,so I come back to my point, the politicians locally and nationally are posturing and wrapping them selves in the green banner, intersting article yesterday from Andrew Neill in DM,which I take with a pinch of salt,but he made the point that the public may turn, once the larger energy bills start arriving this winter.
 

Ern

May 23, 2021
432
194
735
I think local authorities have a legal and moral obligation to their residents, first and foremost. Cleaning up the air when it is polluted to a dangerous level, to protect the health of residents is the highest priority, and excluding a high number of vehicles is the authority's responsibility.
 
Jul 18, 2017
7,575
1,903
22,935
I think local authorities have a legal and moral obligation to their residents, first and foremost. Cleaning up the air when it is polluted to a dangerous level, to protect the health of residents is the highest priority, and excluding a high number of vehicles is the authority's responsibility.
If there is a coal fired power station nearby why are they penalising the motorist. If the smog comes from acros the channel why penalise the motorist. Everything seems to relate to penalising the motorist?
I agree that the air need to be cleaned up, but it is not only the motorist causing pollution however the motorist is the easiest target as no need to install expensive monitoring systems to make the motorist pay.
 
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
Hi Other Clive
Thanks for the reply, I am not sure that Bath really thought through the CAZ, as you say it is diificult to avoid traffic going through the residential areas, but it is the political posturing that I object to most, if they really wanted to reduce the pollution from the centre then they would have banned all ICE vehicles except for Police , Fire or Ambulance,,and issued residents permits. I find it interesting that Bristol has paused it's plans to introduce CAZ,of course if both cities did ban ICE vehicles completely, they could lose lots of money from shoppers, parking charges etc.and some businesses may choose to relocate to the outskirts, where motorists could have easy access and free parking. Whatever decisions politicians take, I think there will be a hardcore of drivers that will choose to use their vehicles,many are not convinced that electric is the way to go, and for work and pleasure, the park and ride is not an option,for example our work involve multiple drop deliveries,we have already taken the decision not to deliver to Stroud when the council made it impossible for us to get to certain customers in the town centre, Gloucester has designated loading bays, often blocked by private cars and disabled badge holders illegally, same with Cheltenham, Forest of Dean seems to be less interested in 'persecuting' the motorist, but they do not have large towns or many main roads, and I supect a combination of factors such as the trees and open countryside help. I don't pretend to have the answers, but get frustrated when it seems that the motorist get's the blame, and as I understand it 1% is accepted as this countries contribution to emissions worldwide,so I come back to my point, the politicians locally and nationally are posturing and wrapping them selves in the green banner, intersting article yesterday from Andrew Neill in DM,which I take with a pinch of salt,but he made the point that the public may turn, once the larger energy bills start arriving this winter.
Re Bristol, Marvin is still looking for a “ conversation” 😂
 
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
If there is a coal fired power station nearby why are they penalising the motorist. If the smog comes from acros the channel why penalise the motorist. Everything seems to relate to penalising the motorist?
I agree that the air need to be cleaned up, but it is not only the motorist causing pollution however the motorist is the easiest target as no need to install expensive monitoring systems to make the motorist pay.
A motorist with a wood burning stove really will feel persecuted. But we now have very few coal fired power stations and the link Sam Vimes posted a few days back showed how very little energy is produced by them. The majority of PM 2.5 particles and lower, plus NOX is engine derived so it’s not CO2 that concerns city air quality it’s the other pollutants. Fir Olympics 2012 we were spraying London’s streets with salt solution to try and improve air quality levels. Indefensible in my mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ProfJohnL
Mar 14, 2005
1,149
154
19,235
So the delegates attending the cop26 bunfight in Scotland later this year are to be given the use of JLR electric vehicles that will be recharged from generators that will run on used cooking oil, more political posturing,the reason given being that there is no sufficient charging capacity locally.
 
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
I don’t see a problem charging them from generators running on cooking oil as long as the genies have clean exhausts. With 30000 expected at the conference it’s a good opportunity to showcase the JLR products. As an aside I wonder where the two Clubs get their electric supplies from to power the annual national gatherings?
 
Sep 24, 2008
797
158
18,935
We use to go up to London to see the exhibition hall passing residential properties with beautiful Magnolia trees in blossom. We now have to use another very busy road the A127 which is packed morn till night. In the central reservation Pampas grasses grow which again are looking great. So how come these plants survive in such polluted environment.
 
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
We use to go up to London to see the exhibition hall passing residential properties with beautiful Magnolia trees in blossom. We now have to use another very busy road the A127 which is packed morn till night. In the central reservation Pampas grasses grow which again are looking great. So how come these plants survive in such polluted environment.
Plants are different to humans. That’s why it’s recommended to place plants in homes and offices to help cleaning the air. Perhaps pampas grass thrives on elevated CO2 levels emitted by the traffic.
 
Jul 18, 2017
7,575
1,903
22,935
Plants are different to humans. That’s why it’s recommended to place plants in homes and offices to help cleaning the air. Perhaps pampas grass thrives on elevated CO2 levels emitted by the traffic.
I am surprised that it is allowed to be grown in the UK as it is a very invasive plant that destroys the local habitat. It can also kill some birds if they feed off it. It is banned in many states in the US.
 
Nov 11, 2009
15,778
3,996
50,935
A neighbour of ours had a large clump in the front lawn. He gave up trimming it back with shears as it was too much like hard work and then he had to remove the waste. So he then just set fire to it each spring and watered the ash into the lawn.
 
May 7, 2012
7,421
1,243
25,935
Plants will normally survive in an environment with lots of CO2. Going back to my school days science they actually convert it into O2, so are good for the environment, although the choice of pampas grass might be debateable.
 
Jul 18, 2017
7,575
1,903
22,935
Because of their Hight I mentioned Pampas but they are also mixed with other bushes which also look lovely in bloom.
However strange that a council that is supposed to be responsible for our environment allows it to be grown on the islands. They probably will have not qualms about introducing a congestion charge, but allow a plant to damage the environment and kill off local plant lie. This applies to all councils that allow this type of plant to be grown on property managed by them.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS