Damp again!!!!!

Nov 6, 2005
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Van has just had its 4th year service and damp yet again! It was bought new , 1st year fine then 2nd 3rd and 4th years damp all in different places.Its just not acceptable, we paid a lot of money for it.
Back to the dealer ( who have been brilliant i must add) again for repair , more time and money to take back , getting fed up with it now.
Its a shame as its our perfect van now and don't want to change, if we do the change is £10k, i do feel like giving it up as lost faith in it.
 
Aug 23, 2009
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What absolutely rotten luck, A definite Friday van to say the least. A very difficult situation to find yourself in. I think I may take the plunge and change IF there's something out there you like. Great to hear the dealer has been good.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Michael
Very sorry to hear this news. Which part of the country was your caravan made?
I assume it is one with the manufactures six or ten year water ingress guarantee?
Apart from your contractual agreement with the supplying dealer have either you or your dealer lodged in writing your problems with the manufacturer?
Wet caravans of yours age is unacceptable.
Three years on has your dealer offered any recompense.
I'm sure the Prof will have some words of wisdom.
For once I wonder if PCv will help :silly: :blink: :oops: :lol:
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Not afraid to say its an Buccaneer Schooner 2012 model, first year no issues , 2nd year damp around front windows plus wall staining all repaired, 3rd year damp around front windows again and damp around battery box, again repaired and new battery box, just had the 4th year and 60 % damp around offside wheel arch and damp underneath front side locker booked in for repair again , sounds a simple job of just resealing and the dealer has been really good. Half day to take back and the same to pick up plus fuel.
No offers of re-reimbursement, but a strong letter is on its way to Elddis, tried to post on social media as they really do take notice of this bu=t they review first so no chance of it being published.
The dealer has said he will still give market value but i dont want to fork out anymore money as the van is really good and ticks all boxes, apart from damp as we are continually worried what the next service will throw at us.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Michael,

Firstly can I Thank Dusty for his blind faith in me, I'm not certain its totally justified but there you go!

I totally agree with you it is unacceptable, and I really feel for you.

I'm not certain what you would like to happen? On the one hand you like the caravan layout and style, but on the other you have lost confidence in the longevity of the product, and its value is depressed because of its history.

If you stick with the caravan and have it repaired again, who knows what may happen in the future, will more areas of damp occur - and ultimately these may no longer be covered by the manufactures guarantee, so the cost of future repairs falls on you, and the value of the caravan is further depressed.

If you change now, on the open market your caravan will have a depressed value because of its history, and as you point out it will cost you more to obtain a caravan that meets your desires.

Your stuck between the devil and the deep, or are you?

I assume because you mention "more time and money to take back" this means there is no suggestion the caravan has been mistreated or damaged and previous works have been carried out under the Manufacturer's guarantee.

If this is the case then you have already got some vital information that may help if you wish to pursue this further.

Im sorry if this is long winded but it's important to set out the context of what I'm going to move onto.

I hope you do know that whenever you make a retail purchase even though you are not usually told about it, the sale was governed by the Sale of Goods Act (SoGA). This is a piece of legislation that set out your rights as a consumer to expect goods supplied to you are:-

As described prior to sale.
Free from design, material and workmanship faults and inherent faults that can become apparent some time after the point of sale.
Of merchantable quality and sufficiently durable
Fit for purpose.

A retailer that fails in any of those respects is in breach of contract.

What can you do? - Well that depends on how long you have had the product. There are in essence three post purchase periods and different responses will apply depending on which period you are in.

The first and shortest period follows immediately after purchase. It has no prescribed duration , but is affected by the type of product you have purchased. It can be as short as a few hours to a few weeks as it might be in the case of a caravan. If any fault arises with a product within this initial period, you have the right to a replacement or a full refund.

The second period lasts for 6 months (except where the products life is less e.g. food items) During this period it is assumed that any fault arising was present at the point of sale but latent and the seller is required to either repair or replace the goods free of charge if the seller agrees they may refund the current fault free market value of the goods.

The third period takes you from 6 months up to a maximum of 6 years from the point of sale. Shorter periods apply where the normal life expectancy of a product is less (e.g. tyres or brakes). If a fault occurs with the goods, the seller can challenge the claim, and it is up to the consumer to provide sufficient evidence that the fault was present or latent at the point of sale. If you are successful then you can expect the seller to repair or possibly replace or refund but only to current fault free market value of the goods.

In the case of faulty goods the seller is liable to cover the cost of carriage of goods to and from the customer, or any tangible losses the customer incurred as a direct result of the failure of the goods.

I know this may seem a little unfair on the dealer, as the faults are not of his making. But hang on a minute. It should be the responsibility of every business to operate a quality management system to catch faults on product they receive and reject then back to their suppliers NOT pass them onto their customers. So the dealers quality systems have also failed by allowing customer to receive faulty products. That is a risk of business and it's up to them sort it out with their suppliers, not inconvenience or disadvantage their own customers. This is why SoGA relates to your contract with the seller not the manufacturer.

In your case you are in teh third period and already have strong evidence the caravan has had latent faults witnessed by the earlier repairs. Because of the nature of similar faults arising in different parts of the caravan you have no confidence in localised repairs when the whole structure is suspect. SoGA doe not state how many repairs may be attempted before the product can be deemed unsatisfactory but I suspect two prior attempts must be about the tipping point.

I think this gives you a strong case to challenge the dealer through SoGA to either replace your current caravan with another of the same model or value, or a refund of the current fault free value.

I state now, it's not a foregone conclusion that this approach will work, and I am not qualified to give legal advice so I suggest you seek professional advice or assistance.

It's important to also state that since Oct 2015 SoGA was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act which combines the best points of several pieces of consumer legislations and puts a much stronger framework in place.

I wish you luck.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello again Michael,

My post above took some time to compose and in the intervening period you posted again.

I have to say your the dealer seems to be skirting around their responsibilities. Is there offer just the value of your faulty caravan or the full fault free market value?

If it's the genuine fault free market value then you should be able to purchase a S/H van of the same age with little or no balancing costs - after all that's what you are entitled to!

I think i'd be pretty uncertain about another repair on top of the two already carried out. I'd prefer to look for an alternative van of similar age with no history of damp, it may well be a better bet than your current damp one.

Push them to see if they have another s/h example of your caravan without damp issues as a SoGA replacement.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Not bad Prof for 1.00am! B)
Blind faith? Certainly not.
It is these type of cases that need to be publicised by the press. Come on PCv surely you have some sway with Elddis :dry:
 
May 7, 2012
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A very sad tale and Eldiss should be ashamed of their product which is supposed to be their flagship. I take it this was not a Solid one.
I agree with the Professor's approach but doubt there is any real chance of a replacement or your money back as you have had four years enjoyment of it despite your problems. I would tend to say to the dealer you will be looking for compensation as suggested by the Professor but if they are willing to do you a special deal on a new one not necessarily the same make you will listen to offers. I think it may be a case of being practical rather than insisting on your legal rights if you can get the right deal.
If the caravan was bought on finance or a deposit or other payment was made on a credit card you also have rights against the company who gave you the credit and this line might be worth looking at if you hit a dead end with the dealer and Eldiss.
You will find the chairman of the owners club posting further down under Events rallies and Clubs. Just wonder if he has any influence wit Eldiss and if it is worth contacting him.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Michael, Sorry about the problem, I remembered a program on the BBC, Dont get even get Dom, where a couple had persistant problems with damp on their van , not sure whos make and googled it but no use, the program managed to get them a brand new replacment rather than bad publicity, and with a nice prestgious van like yours , they dont want adverse publicity, and the media love this sort of thing,. Mabe Watch Dog. Or local Tv Radio.
Good luck, Hutch.
 
Apr 7, 2008
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EH52ARH said:
Michael, Sorry about the problem, I remembered a program on the BBC, Dont get even get Dom, where a couple had persistant problems with damp on their van , not sure whos make and googled it but no use, the program managed to get them a brand new replacment rather than bad publicity, and with a nice prestgious van like yours , they dont want adverse publicity, and the media love this sort of thing,. Mabe Watch Dog. Or local Tv Radio.
Good luck, Hutch.

It was back in 2013 I remember watching it ;)
 
Jun 20, 2005
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That's the one Your Royal Woosieness.

At least Swift stood up and wee counted.
Seems to me Michael's Bucaneer has a poor sealant or poorly applied sealant.
Surely at the very least Elddis should take the caravan back to their factory and rebuild all the jointed seals. I recall Travelling Rooster had a lot of problems with his Elddis :angry:
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Many thanks to everyone for the advice etc, much appreciated.
Not sure what to do really, the faults have always been fixed as said damp in different places just bloody frustrating, i can understand if its the same area time after time so you can say they had there chance to fix but this hasn't been the case they have fixed the faults.
Just seems silly sealant faults. We did talk to the dealer last time and he offered us a free service , very nice goodwill gesture but again a day off and a few quid in diesel.
Hence why i have a guy service it at home.
The dealer did say the offer would be no different if i part exed it, but i dont want a new Buccaneer as a 8ft van is too wide for us as we rally and gateways are tight at the moment, the other vans are Elddis and not really keen on them.
Other vans around are still around £10-12k to swap which just isnt worth it when our van is just as we want it.
If i did trade with another dealer i wouldn't want to say it had damp, but if they found it at least it has a 10 year water ingress and fully serviced.
I remember the Swift episode but they had major damp which couldnt be fixed after several attempts.
See what they find after they take it in to have a look.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello again Michael,

Your latest post paints a slightly different picture about your wishes, and it seems you are seriously considering changing your caravan, not just because of the serial leaks.

It's time to put sentiment away and look at the cold facts. You purchased a brand new caravan which throughout your 4 year ownership has had serial leaks. Even though the leaks may have been in different areas of the caravan they have been of a similar nature relating to poor sealing of the panels and joints. For so many issues to have arisen across the caravan, it must raise the suspicion that all the joints on the caravan are substandard and it is simply a matter of time before they prematurely fail. That is a latent fault, which is most likely the result of poor workmanship or substandard materials. But in either case and those issues must have been present at the time you purchased the caravan and is contrary to teh provisions of SoGA.

As the caravan is now 4 years old, attempting to make a SoGA claim for breach of contract, the onus is on the owner to establish the case. If the seller challenges, then you would take it to a civil court and it would be assessed on the balance of probability that the workmanship or materials were substandard and have resulted in the problems with the caravan.

What challenges could the seller bring that could refute your claim? Well they could try to claim workmanship was to standards, in which case why did your caravan leak?

They could claim the caravan has been misused or damaged, but if that were the case then the manufacturers guarantee would not have covered the earlier repairs.

The could claim you have not had the regular dealer inspections required by the manufacturer to support the body work integrity guarantee, In which case the manufacturer would have refused the earlier repairs. The fact they did accept them supports that you have complied with their inspection schedules.

Ulike Raywood I actually think you may have a surprisingly strong case because of the well documented history you must have.

I personally think you should be chasing the seller for the full market value of the caravan as if were fault free. This could be significantly more than its current market value as a caravan with damp issues. You might also be able to claim for your costs for towing the caravan to and from the dealership on each occasion you returned it for remedial work, as these are costs directly arising from the faults.

Returning to the dealer's actions, Whilst on the face of it they are trying to placate you by making these offers of free services etc. but in fact they are are trying to deflect you away from using your legal rights which would cost them far more if you are successful. Don't forget, they only need to dissuade you for two further years after which time SoGA is unlikely to be successful because of the elapsed time.

If you are considering PXing at another caravan dealership, do not be tempted to lie about your caravans condition, because there are plenty of cases where a PX value was stated (without inspection) and based on that valuation a customer agrees to purchase another caravan and pays a non refundable deposit. But on receiving your old caravan the dealer finds faults they will reduce the px value and you may be committed to finding more cash to fill the gap or losing your deposit.

If you try to sell the caravan privately, if when asked you fail to mention any material fact about your caravan which later becomes apparent the new owner could sue you.

For those reasons I suggest you would be best served by pursuing the seller for a full value refund, and then use that cash to lever a better deal on another caravan.

I strongly advise you seek professional advice before trying to pursue any of the above suggestions.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Prof
Blind Faith?
No.
Very good points there.
Michael.
Any litigation is a big worry.
It may we be your caravan insurers offer a substantial legal expenses extension for the situation you find yourself in.
Worth a look and maybe a phone call.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Thanks John that's excellent advise and many thanks for taking the time the write such a long reply.
Sorry if if it sounded that we want to change the van , but we don't the only reason is the constant damp issues every year, as said the van ticks every box so i don't want to part with anymore money , the only reason would be a damp free van.
We will certainly look at the points you made and probably will try and recoup market value?
I wouldn't sell the van privately , i wouldn't want anyone to suffer the same issues we are having?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I would have a go through the small claims court as suggested to recover market value in a 'no faults' condition. I think you will have to advise the dealer that you intend to do this, before actually starting the case. The difference between the value he has already offered may not be all that great, and he may well decide to offer full market value as an alternative to going to court, risking having to pay higher damages, and perhpas your costs too. If he has insurance, the insurers may well advise him to follow this line anyway, as it will be their money you would be getting.

As you will see from simillar threads about 18 months ago, I tried to get legal advice on a similar mattter - approaching solicitors found by searching the Law Spciety website for those specialising in Consumer Rights, but received no replies - so much for the legal profession. Citizens Advice Bureau were pretty helpful too but could not take on a paarticular case. At the time I was advised on medical grounds not to start my own SCC case, but looking at the documents and guidelines I don't think this route is all that difficult to follow and would certainly consider it in any future similar dispute.

If you still have the original sales brochure, it may be worth reading it again to see what - if any - claims about workmanship etc. were made and whether there was any mention of Quality Assurance standards.

Good luck !
 
May 7, 2012
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The small claims court is reasonably easy to use but if you are going for near £30,000 then it is of no use and you would need a solicitor and independent expert opinion as to the problem which could be expensive. My feeling is you would get a figure based on the depreciation of the caravan due to the faults plus damages for inconvenience and loss of use and expenses. The problem is you could be within the small claims figure then so you will have lost time and expense in going for the higher figure.
If you are a member of either of the clubs you could speak to their legal helpline who unfortunately will be familiar with the problem. If not look at your household policy as many have this and any trade union or work scheme you could benefit from.
I tend to agree with the Prof as to the caravan. If the person who sealed it missed the bits you know about I would worry the rest was just as bad. If the damp is repaired it should show a clean bill of health if traded in, but when we traded the last one in they did ask about damp and as we had had no problems we were safe. If you were asked you have to admit the problem. Certainly I would look at a local dealer who can examine it before the deal is done so no late surprises, but you will have to face the problem at some time so may be now is the best time to do it..
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Ray,

SoGA does not consider compensation for loss of use, it only looks at tangible losses that arise directly as a result of the failure of the product.

Compensation for intangible losses may be considered by the court and awarded but it would not be part of the SoGA settlement it would be a separate award and in the courts grace.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Well van booked in for repair the first week in January, dealer said they have seen a few with the same issues so its just a case of a reseal , but they are going to check the van over.
They are going to do the Alde heating anti freeze change free of charge as a goodwill gesture whilst its in.,
Offered price to change and would give me forecourt price plus a discount on a new van , but still a few pennies to swap but i feel a lot better now that hopefully its a simple fix so we will keep and see what the next year brings.

Many thanks for peoples responses, a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to everyone.
 
Sep 14, 2016
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Hi Michael
sorry to hear about the problems you have been having.
Have you managed to get it solved ?
We are having similar problems with our Buccaneer Schooner 2013
Not sure what to do

Thanks
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Hi we decided to get it repaired again and declined the offer of a part ex.
I have a damp meter and have been monitoring it all through the year and it seems to have cured the issues in the areas that i know have been repaired for damp.
The van is due for it next service in December and if damp has returned we will assess the situation again but more than likely it will be changed.
 
Sep 14, 2016
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Thanks
I have purchased a damp detector.
They have ordered both new awning rails and they are sorting the damp.
My father in law has the same caravan as us and has discovered water coming through light fitting in the shower aswell as the same problem we are having.
It sound s like they haven't done a good job of sealing these vans when they were made its disgusting for wheat they charge for them we had a Geist prior to this van and had no trouble at all. Thius really has put me off Elddis.
Hope your vans OK
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Well here we go again, just had the caravan serviced and damp again. The offside and nearside wheelarch's and the front top area.
5 services and the last 4 damp in different places, thats it now the van will go, just compiling a letter to the dealer and the manufacturer, all faith is lost with it now.
 

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