Diesel or petrol

[Alex_374373826]

As a point of discussion. I currently tow with a diesel 4x4 sportage. However, reading yesterday's Telegraph Motoring, the future of diesel due to supply and complications with emissions technology is doubted. It was mentioned about better performing petrol engines.

Do not wish to change this tow car yet as find it excellent but bearing in mind the above does anyone have any thoughts?

Alex

 

[seth1]

Hello,cant see how the emissions may pose a problem,i was under the impression Euro 6 would be the final emission level,which unbelivable an American engine producer has already met and far excceded ,with no additves.so the technologie is there.

production of the fuel which im no expert of, i would have thought shouldnt pose a problem either,unless resources run out but then this would also pose a threat for petrols and bearing in mind there is alternative fuel for diesels.i,ll still stick with the diesel,more so for towing.

 

[weejock]

The Mercedes C Class 220cdi bluetec sold in some markets is already compliant.

This standard does call for adblu though and it seems as if even Scania are now admitting that adblu will be required to attain some of these standards and that EGR systems alone will not be enough.

 

[seth1]

From what literature we,ve had of cummins ,cummins themselves have reinvented the common rail idea,which is commonly used today by nearly all makers.(not to be confused with pressure time)with out going in to much detail, the idea has now been adopted by Scania (HPI)under licence.

 

[Mikey1]

Mercedes do a ML 320 bluetech diesel,the problem is the co,which 269,altough a very clean engine they have no plans to bring it to the UK due to our taxation of co2 cars.

I did read that Ford havent the money to research new engines for make to Euro 5.

Vauxhalls new Insignia has been slated for a noisy diesel engine apparently they have had to remove the anti piston knock to reach Euro 5,i couldnt believe how noisy the diesel in the new Honda Accord was.

 

[JTQ]

I am quite sure Diesel cycle technology will prevail as fundamentaly the Otto cycle technology exploited presently by petrol engines is substantially less efficient.

This is because, efficiency is intimately linked to compression ratio, and diesels facilitate injection after compression allowing use of higher ratios.

Whether future diesel engines will use what we know as "diesel fuel" is questionable, however as it forms a significant portion of crude there is a immensely powerful economic argument to use it.

I expect the trend with petrol as a fuel will be to using it with direct injection, that is using petrol as diesel cycle fuel. Logically they will run in parallel with diesel burning engines thus reflecting the ratio of product available from crude.

The unfortunate legacy diesel has is because it can burn the "crap" components of the crude, many of these were left in it for commercial reasons, but they came out of the exhaust.

In a more environmentally aware world thankfully that is changing fast. However it has left "Diesel" as a tainted word, totally unjustifiably in my opinion.

 

[Guest]

I changed last year from using petrol 4.8 BMW to a performance 4.2 litre Audi, low speed pull away diesel grunt is a joy. I'm a complete diesel convert so I hope diesel has a long life.

I saw over the weekend that coffee been oil makes a good clean diesel fuel. I think diesel willcontinue to evolve as will the engines.

I understand that a new Cam less engine is about to hit the markets, it could revolutionise the petrol and diesel engine even more.

 

[Dustydog]

Euro

Would that camless job be a two stroke??

Cheers

Alan

 

[Gafferbill]

Alex......... what about road transport and agriculture!

Modern trucks rely on the diesel engine.

No diesel engine ... no trucks ... no modern economy.

Agriculture relies on the diesel engine.

No diesel engine for all the mechanisation ... no food

Until recent advances with bio-diesel, that give an alternative to fossil fuels ..........we were all DOOOOOOOOMED!!!.....at some point in the future, when the oil ran out.

Diesel is here to stay

 

[Garfield]

Alan.

Just looked up the camless thing and electromagnetic solenoids are used to power the valves. Does anyone know what happened to the Ford / Orbital 2 stroke that was on the cards a few years back?. there are some outboard engines that use the technology where the fuel is injected direct to the cylinder once the exhaust port has closed, they are far cleaner and efficient than conventional 2 strokes and have more torque through the rev range than a similar powered 4 stroke outboard.

 

[Garfield]

As for the original question, I've had turbo diesels for some time now and had a petrol hire car in Portugal---utterly gutless!!!, not too bad if you dropped 3 gears and got the engine screaming but for pootling about in traffic I would say you need a 3 litre petrol to match the drivability of a 2 litre turbo diesel

 

[Guest]

Yep Garfield, solenoid actuators are likely to be the way ahead.

I never said cam and valve less Alan.

I think you'll find that Alfa developed common rail injection but never patented it so everyone jumped on their band wagon. I seem to remember that Alpha also were one of the first with VVT.

New system developed with Valeo and Fiat / Alfa

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/07/camless-engine-may-debut-on-2009-fiat-500-alfa-junior/
Should cut engine weight and friction and allow for computer control to aid power, fuel consumption and economy.

 

[hgv dave]

cam less engine? does the wankel rotary engine have a cam?

talking about emmisions.....will the new euro regs apply to new cars and present cars will be tested on the regs when they were registered?......if so me and a lot of people will be up the creek lol

belive it or not a diesil engine can be run on coal dust.....it didnt work very well but it did work,it was just a experiment i saw on tv but maybe it could be developed to work

as far as petrol engines go....did anyone see top gear when they showed the hydrogen fuel cell car in the usa?...that is the way the future is going

hgv dave

 

[seth1]

just a small point,it was actually Fiat which invented the common rail,which is as close to Alfa as you,ll get as they own them.as we,ve now got diesels that exceed euro 6 do they need anymore development?how much further can they go?certain makers are now starting to release twin turbo 7.5 tonners not a new idea iknow,but does replace the vgt turbo.Its also a known fact the most effiecent movers are 2stroke diesels,piston ported inlet obvously with supercharger(normal 4 stroke crankcase) and cam operated exhaust valve.The key to cleaner engines besides changing fuel,is the pressure the fuel atomises at during combustion.

 

[RogerP]

Hope my logic is not wrong here.

But if more effort were put into Bio-diesel then would this not have twofold possitive impact.

As I see it bio-diesl is cleaner (wont argue if this is disputed) and growing plants extract carbon-dioxide from the atmosphere so not only will we put less CO2 out there but the plants will remove the stuff we've already kicked out.

Also am I right that this AdBlu stuff is derived from Cow urine? if so is this not couter productive as cow methane is argued as being more destructive that CO2

 

[Dustydog]

Yep Garfield, solenoid actuators are likely to be the way ahead.

I never said cam and valve less Alan.

I think you'll find that Alfa developed common rail injection but never patented it so everyone jumped on their band wagon. I seem to remember that Alpha also were one of the first with VVT.

New system developed with Valeo and Fiat / Alfa

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/07/camless-engine-may-debut-on-2009-fiat-500-alfa-junior/
Should cut engine weight and friction and allow for computer control to aid power, fuel consumption and economy.

Euro

You did say Camless , not valveless. I'm intrigued if it's not a wankel or two stroke.

Cheers

Alan

 

[weejock]

The future of the combustion engine according to MB will be their new diesotto engine which uses diesel but runs on compression and ignition.

 

[seth1]

The problem with biodiesel is a lot of diesels wont run on it without damage occuring,due to the amount of water left in the tank.from what i can gather a sixth of a tank is water.Adblu or Urea as the proper name is as far as i know not horse or cow urine,but have heard many people liken it to it.

 

[robstanbury_5041463]

Hello,cant see how the emissions may pose a problem,i was under the impression Euro 6 would be the final emission level,which unbelivable an American engine producer has already met and far excceded ,with no additves.so the technologie is there.

production of the fuel which im no expert of, i would have thought shouldnt pose a problem either,unless resources run out but then this would also pose a threat for petrols and bearing in mind there is alternative fuel for diesels.i,ll still stick with the diesel,more so for towing.

HI Seth. My niece is a eco warrior, knows all the stats ect,in our little island we have been taxed into thinking it us causing the

the ice caps to melt,most new cars use most of there co2 being

made,the stats start from the mining of the raw materials ect,so the the most co2 friendy car is 15 year old Range Rover v8,not

the Toyota Pruis all those batteries ,recycle I dont think so.

My point, I dont think Mr Brown will be phoning India or China or

USA who generate most of the worlds co2,all of the UKs 4X4 dont

produce enough co2 ,thats made in each sq mile of some cities in the world,its a way of raising Taxes! So enjoy our hobby ,drive what

you want,I am sure the Taxi driver in China will send Mr BROWN some money to offset his carbon footprint.I hate that expression

it's like using 'black hole' when your Banks gone T*ts up.

Rob&Lynne&Woofers

 

[g_374369443]

Actually. Fiat did do a lot of the original work on the common rail system,and won awards for their development work. but they sold the rights/patent to Bosch.

The Alfa 156 2.4 jtd, was the first car to employ the new common rail system, just as Mercedes where delayed in launching there 2 series merc,some books still claim the merc was first though..