do you get more rights if you buy your van on some finance?.
- Thread starter Jo-AnneFairway5402010
- Start date
jo-anne...Your rights are just the same whether you buy cash, through a personal loan or with a finance company.
The difference is that if you buy the caravan on a finance loan (hire purchase agreement) the lender is the owner of the goods until paid for and threfore if you have problems with the goods the lender can get involved with the seller and use their weight to get things put right. The same goes if you used your credit card for the purchase for a limited period.
Of course the down side is that borrowing on credit cards and through a hire purchase agreement is not the most cost efficient method of borrowing money because the interest charges are usually much higher than if you went for a personal loan. Mal
The difference is that if you buy the caravan on a finance loan (hire purchase agreement) the lender is the owner of the goods until paid for and threfore if you have problems with the goods the lender can get involved with the seller and use their weight to get things put right. The same goes if you used your credit card for the purchase for a limited period.
Of course the down side is that borrowing on credit cards and through a hire purchase agreement is not the most cost efficient method of borrowing money because the interest charges are usually much higher than if you went for a personal loan. Mal
Hi Jo-anne,
I understand that if you cash, in the event of any issues you only have "reasonable time" which is not defined in law but is often quite short under the Sales of Goods Act 1974 and have up to six years from the point of sale to make a claim.
But under a higher purchase agreement you have additional rights under the Sales of Goods Act (Implied Terms) 1973, these rights last the duration of the finance agreement - so if you have a 10 year agreement you would have 10 years worth of protection against the finance company since they become the seller, but bear in mind that after several years use a full refund or replacement may be unreasonable since far wear and tear have to be taken into account.
You are best off talking to someone like Consumer Direct or can advise you of the pitfalls and benefits of either way, the web link is: www.consumerdirect.gov.uk
I understand that if you cash, in the event of any issues you only have "reasonable time" which is not defined in law but is often quite short under the Sales of Goods Act 1974 and have up to six years from the point of sale to make a claim.
But under a higher purchase agreement you have additional rights under the Sales of Goods Act (Implied Terms) 1973, these rights last the duration of the finance agreement - so if you have a 10 year agreement you would have 10 years worth of protection against the finance company since they become the seller, but bear in mind that after several years use a full refund or replacement may be unreasonable since far wear and tear have to be taken into account.
You are best off talking to someone like Consumer Direct or can advise you of the pitfalls and benefits of either way, the web link is: www.consumerdirect.gov.uk
I would never ever buy a caravan again cash like we did with our first two caravans. When you have poor back up service, there is nothing like knowing that you have the weight of the finance company behind you to resolve any issues or disputes. It worked for me. after 6 years pay the balance off in am lump sum as you can't really chase for poor workmanship relating to warranty work after that date.
If you only part financed the deal through HP would you still get the same protection?
If so it might be worth putting say
If so it might be worth putting say
Yes you would get that protection and it doesn't end when you have paid back the loan (if dealer introduced - you would not get this protection if you took out a loan directly with the bank and used the money to buy a caravan).
It doesn't have to be constructed as an HP agreement either - the lender is jointly and severally liable with the seller for any breach of contract or misrepresentation, under the provisions of Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 even if it is a personal loan or conditional sale agreement.
Exactly the same applies if you have paid with a credit card which is why it is always a good idea to put your holiday deposit on a card in case the tour operator goes bust!
It doesn't have to be constructed as an HP agreement either - the lender is jointly and severally liable with the seller for any breach of contract or misrepresentation, under the provisions of Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 even if it is a personal loan or conditional sale agreement.
Exactly the same applies if you have paid with a credit card which is why it is always a good idea to put your holiday deposit on a card in case the tour operator goes bust!
Alan ,As you will see from my comments above I was in the Finance industry (and caravan in particular) for a lot of years but not the last 10 so not sure what you mean by even if the finance is paid off the protection goes on.
I'm interested in the continuing protection idea, too. Are you saying, for instance, that if I bought a new caravan on my credit card, then paid off the whole balance when the statement arrived, I would continue to have the support of the credit card provider in the case of future disputes over quality issues? That might be a tempting way to procede, if it is really the case.
Chrissie, Plotter
Useful guidance from the OFT:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_credit/oft303.pdf
Buying on credit, or using a card, doesn't give in itself give you any additonal rights under a guarantee contract or the Sale of Goods Act 1979 - but it does (usually) mean that the lender, or card issuer is just as liable as the dealer for any contractual obligations (including under SOGA). This is especially useful if the supplier goes bust, but even if he doesn't and you have a case there is nothing to prevent you bringing it against the lender (on the grounds that Big Bank plc is more likely to pay up on judgement perhaps). Big Bank's responsibility doesn't end just because you have paid off the loan, but neither does it extend beyond what the dealer would be liable for.
It happens all the time - the lender will normally have an indemnity from the dealer under which they will attempt to recover but that is not your problem.
Credit card payments under
Useful guidance from the OFT:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_credit/oft303.pdf
Buying on credit, or using a card, doesn't give in itself give you any additonal rights under a guarantee contract or the Sale of Goods Act 1979 - but it does (usually) mean that the lender, or card issuer is just as liable as the dealer for any contractual obligations (including under SOGA). This is especially useful if the supplier goes bust, but even if he doesn't and you have a case there is nothing to prevent you bringing it against the lender (on the grounds that Big Bank plc is more likely to pay up on judgement perhaps). Big Bank's responsibility doesn't end just because you have paid off the loan, but neither does it extend beyond what the dealer would be liable for.
It happens all the time - the lender will normally have an indemnity from the dealer under which they will attempt to recover but that is not your problem.
Credit card payments under
The protection under a linked agreement,either the principal finance or credit card part payment of deposit is given under section 75 of the Consumer credit Act and not the sales of goods act which is a different matter altogether,equally under the CCA another section covers anticedent negotiations which can also be of value if a dealer misrepresents the goods.
Plotter,
Not sure what you are saying here - yes, it's Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that makes the lender liable; the point is that the dealer, in the circumstances we are talking about where a credit card is used or the dealer has arranged finance, has exactly the same responsibilities towards the customer as the dealer - including the dealer's obligations under SOGA, including liability for misrepresentation. I am actually involved in a case at the moment where a customer is suing a lender for consequential loss, allegedly flowing from misrepresentation by a seller in relation to goods (not a caravan I must add).
I think you are confusing the issue my mentioning antecedent negotiations, unless you can explain the relevance?
I'm not trying to win an argument by the way, just trying to answer the original question
Not sure what you are saying here - yes, it's Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that makes the lender liable; the point is that the dealer, in the circumstances we are talking about where a credit card is used or the dealer has arranged finance, has exactly the same responsibilities towards the customer as the dealer - including the dealer's obligations under SOGA, including liability for misrepresentation. I am actually involved in a case at the moment where a customer is suing a lender for consequential loss, allegedly flowing from misrepresentation by a seller in relation to goods (not a caravan I must add).
I think you are confusing the issue my mentioning antecedent negotiations, unless you can explain the relevance?
I'm not trying to win an argument by the way, just trying to answer the original question
Hi no conflict but you keep refering to the Sales of Goods act which is not the same as the Consumer Credit Act I just felt that this may confuse those who unlike ourselves are not involved in the finance industry.
Hi Plotter,
I understand. You are right it is Section 75 that catches the lender.
To try and put this to bed -
As a buyer you're best friend if it comes to a legal case, or threat of one, is the Sale of Goods Act which gives you some rights and the seller some obligations, the usual relevant bits being that the goods are correctly represented (so a 10 year old caravan is not sold as a 5 year old, or it it represented to be damp-free when it is sodden) and that the goods are fit for purpose, free from faults, and of satisfactory quality.
There's a a quick summary here from the DTI:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page24700.html
Section 75 means that the lender, in the circs we are talking about here, is just as much on the hook legally for this lot as the seller, and from a legal point of view that is very valuable as they are usually banks who (a) have lots of money (b) care about their reputation, and (c) would usually rather settle than lose in court if things look serious.
Be prepared to push it though.
I understand. You are right it is Section 75 that catches the lender.
To try and put this to bed -
As a buyer you're best friend if it comes to a legal case, or threat of one, is the Sale of Goods Act which gives you some rights and the seller some obligations, the usual relevant bits being that the goods are correctly represented (so a 10 year old caravan is not sold as a 5 year old, or it it represented to be damp-free when it is sodden) and that the goods are fit for purpose, free from faults, and of satisfactory quality.
There's a a quick summary here from the DTI:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page24700.html
Section 75 means that the lender, in the circs we are talking about here, is just as much on the hook legally for this lot as the seller, and from a legal point of view that is very valuable as they are usually banks who (a) have lots of money (b) care about their reputation, and (c) would usually rather settle than lose in court if things look serious.
Be prepared to push it though.
Shall we call that all square then,as I have said i was a manager in the finance industry for too many years but not for the last ten so you do forget some of the finer detail but with the CCA part of my job at the time of its implementation was to train reps to train dealers,sad person that I am I still have the training videos.
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