Elddis Shower

[john080347]

Hi, I've just joined the forum (I know, what took me so long?) but have been a caravan owner since 2000. We have recently taken delivery of a new Elddis Chatsworth 550 (apparently this is also called an Avante) from Glossop Caravans after a long delay due to the Corona virus, and are sorting out a few teething problems with it. One of these is the Whale water system, and specifically the shower. On a short trip recently I tried the shower for the first time, and even though the temperature was showing about 70 degrees, the hot water lasted only just over a minute. I have since then done some tests with calibrating the water supply as per the user guide and timed the hot water supply, and again it seemed to run out in under 2 minutes.
Can anyone tell me how big the hot water tank is on this model, data I couldn't find in the user guide? Should the gas and the electric water heaters be turned on at the same time, on the "instant water" setting, while showering? As the shower cubicle was one of the selling points which convinced us to buy this model, I am a bit disappointed thus far; it does after all take up a lot of space! Any help much appreciated.

 

[Damian]

There are 2 sizes of whale heater, 8Ltr Rapid heater and 13Ltr water heater.

The heaters work on the displacement of hot water by cold water so whilst initially you may have 13 Ltrs of hot water, as soon as you draw any water off cold water enters the heater and cools the remaining contents and as more hot is drawn off, more cold goes in.

The Whale hi flow pump delivers 16Ltrs /min.

If I remember correctly Whale advise using both gas and electric together for faster heat recovery.

 

[Whale]

Hi @john080347
My name is Hayley and I work in the marketing team at Whale.
Please feel free to contact our Technical Support Team who will do all they can to assist you with your query. You can call them on 0345 9090 911 or email info@whalepumps.com.
Alternatively, please privately send me the best number to get you on and I will get one of our team to give you a call.
Best wishes,
Hayley

 

[JezzerB]

I love that Whale see this forum and have the great foresight to contact the op; FANTASTIC customer service. FEather in the cap for Whale.

 

[john080347]

Thanks for the replies, and I have as suggested been in touch with Whale for more information. A very helpful young lady has given me some advice which I will try next time we're out in the 'van and report back.

 

[bertieboy1]

There are 2 sizes of whale heater, 8Ltr Rapid heater and 13Ltr water heater.

The heaters work on the displacement of hot water by cold water so whilst initially you may have 13 Ltrs of hot water, as soon as you draw any water off cold water enters the heater and cools the remaining contents and as more hot is drawn off, more cold goes in.

The Whale hi flow pump delivers 16Ltrs /min.

If I remember correctly Whale advise using both gas and electric together for faster heat recovery.

Buy what does the showerhead let through,if it's more than what the pump delivers then the water delivery will be whatever the pump is rated at.
If it's less than the pump rating then irrespective of the pump rating the delivery will be whatever the showerhead lets through

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi, I've just joined the forum (I know, what took me so long?) but have been a caravan owner since 2000. We have recently taken delivery of a new Elddis Chatsworth 550 (apparently this is also called an Avante) from Glossop Caravans after a long delay due to the Corona virus, and are sorting out a few teething problems with it. One of these is the Whale water system, and specifically the shower. On a short trip recently I tried the shower for the first time, and even though the temperature was showing about 70 degrees, the hot water lasted only just over a minute. I have since then done some tests with calibrating the water supply as per the user guide and timed the hot water supply, and again it seemed to run out in under 2 minutes.
Can anyone tell me how big the hot water tank is on this model, data I couldn't find in the user guide? Should the gas and the electric water heaters be turned on at the same time, on the "instant water" setting, while showering? As the shower cubicle was one of the selling points which convinced us to buy this model, I am a bit disappointed thus far; it does after all take up a lot of space! Any help much appreciated.

There are a couple of points which I'm not clear about:-

You ask if you should use the "instant water" setting. As far as I know, none of the Whale water heaters offer instant hot water, they are both models are storage hot water systems, and they will both take about 20 to 30 minuets to heat cold water to hot.

Regarding the amount of hot water there is for a shower, the basic principle is that they create a small amount of very hot (70C) water which is too hot to shower with, but it will be mixed with cold water in the shower mixer to produce a greater amount of water warm enough (38 to 40C approx) to shower with

8l of very hot water mixed with 8 to 10C water will give about 16L of shower temperature water. If you have the larger 13L model you will get about 20L of shower water.

I'm sure your contact with Whale will sort out your problem.

Don't forget if you do have a fault , and as its a new caravan, your dealer should be sorting it out for you.

 

[john080347]

There are a couple of points which I'm not clear about:-

You ask if you should use the "instant water" setting. As far as I know, none of the Whale water heaters offer instant hot water, they are both models are storage hot water systems, and they will both take about 20 to 30 minuets to heat cold water to hot.

Regarding the amount of hot water there is for a shower, the basic principle is that they create a small amount of very hot (70C) water which is too hot to shower with, but it will be mixed with cold water in the shower mixer to produce a greater amount of water warm enough (38 to 40C approx) to shower with

8l of very hot water mixed with 8 to 10C water will give about 16L of shower temperature water. If you have the larger 13L model you will get about 20L of shower water.

I'm sure your contact with Whale will sort out your problem.

Don't forget if you do have a fault , and as its a new caravan, your dealer should be sorting it out for you.

Just to clarify, the term I used "instant hot water" is incorrect; what I meant was "Timed Boost". After my conversation with Whale support, I understand that the best practice is to have the "Timed Boost" with both electric and gas on while you are showering; this will give an element of reheating the incoming cold water enough to last the duration of a short shower. Obviously a lot depends on the mix of hot and cold, and if the temperature is lower than perhaps as hot as I normally have it at home, it will naturally last longer. I still have to try it in practice, but I still feel that my previous two caravans (Avondale Dart and a Swift Challenger) were better in providing a more satisfactory shower than this new Elddis. All your help very much appreciated, thanks.

 

[Buckman]

Just to clarify, the term I used "instant hot water" is incorrect; what I meant was "Timed Boost". After my conversation with Whale support, I understand that the best practice is to have the "Timed Boost" with both electric and gas on while you are showering; this will give an element of reheating the incoming cold water enough to last the duration of a short shower. Obviously a lot depends on the mix of hot and cold, and if the temperature is lower than perhaps as hot as I normally have it at home, it will naturally last longer. I still have to try it in practice, but I still feel that my previous two caravans (Avondale Dart and a Swift Challenger) were better in providing a more satisfactory shower than this new Elddis. All your help very much appreciated, thanks.

The problem with using Electric and Gas to boost the shower is that quite often you get distracted and forget to turn off the gas when you have finished showering.
At that point you are using gas to heat up the boiler and heating and your gas is depleted very quickly so always remember to switch off the gas unless there is a way for the gas to shut down automatically. I am not familiar with the new Whale Completeheat system in Elddis caravans.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Of course it is best turn items off when you have finished using them, but I wouldn't describe the gas usage of a storage water heaters to deplete a gas cylinder very quickly. If you have both electric and gas systems switched on it doesn't necessarily follow that the gas will be used every time the water needs to be heated.

Certainly in the Truma and Carver models of water heaters were deliberately set up so the electric element would operate at a few degrees above the gas thermostat, so if only a little hot water is used, the electric system will cut in and reheat the tank, and the gas system will not have been used. The gas system will only cut in a lot of hot water is used, and it will act to supplement the power of the electric element to give a faster recovery.

I would presume the same logic will have been used by all touring caravan water heater manufacturers.

If your usage of hot water is light throughout the day the gas system may never even be activated.

Even though the water heaters are well insulated, they will naturally lose some heat even if no hot water is being used. Typically once the tank is fully heated, the thermostat turns the heat off
and it will be about 20min before it it cuts in again and it may heat for about 2 to 3 min, So that means in any hour the burner might fire up 3 times, giving a total burn time of up to 9min per 60min ( this is probably worst case figures, better insulation will result in smaller heat loses)
Normally the electric alement will take care of this without calling on the gas.

But where you are reliant on gas alone , the burners are typically rated for between 1 and 1.25kW ( upt to about 80 to 93 gm/h of LPG) The typical gas usage per hour is only 93 x (9/60) = 14g/hour - A fridge operated on gas is likely to use about the same.

This figure might increase if you use a lot of hot water, for example showering or a major wash up, but once the tank is fully reheated it will revert to maintenance cycling as described above.

You would have to be using a lot of hot water for it to deplete your gas "very quickly".

 

[Raywood]

I do agree. We generally leave the heater on gas/electric mix and have never had a problem with showers running cold, the gas usage seems to be minimal with the electrics doing most of the work. We have only had Truma systems though so cannot be sure about Whale or Alde ones but see no reason to believe they are different..

 

[john080347]

Thanks for all your replies, it's really helpful knowing what goes on under the bonnet, especially with a new caravan and system. As I get more used to it I'll post updates to this thread.

 

[Beachball]

it always interesting how you get on with your new caravan and we will look forward to updates on your Elddis Shower