electric hook up

[allan873]

Tried to post this yesterday but made a mistake so here goes again, its a question about the cost of EHU on sites I was on a site a couple of times this year and was charged £2.00 for 16 Amps but when I go to Glenmore I am charged £5.00 for 16 Amps I thought sites couldnt charge more than they pay, why
allan

 

[Parksy]

Sites are not supposed to charge more than they pay for electricity but the reality is that some also charge for the use of the ehu bollard and call it a 'service charge'.
I always ask what the charge is in advance when I phone the site, if it's too expensive I vote with my tow hitch and use another site or go off ehu which is fine because I have an 80 watt solar panel.

 

[allan873]

Thanks Parksy,
the solar panel is ok in the summer but at Christmas at Glenmore I like electric so I just have to grin and bare it
allan

 

[TonyG]

Parksy
I know it's off topic and you can delete the post after you have answered the question...
What does that green writing say on your avitar

 

[Parksy]

Good Question Tony

It was supposed to be 'Moddy', I'd had a go at adding text to my avatar rather than having my forum name as 'Parksy - Moderator which seemed a bit full on and overbearing at times.
If I happened to take part in a few mundane forum discussions it looked at first glance as though the forum was being moderated to death even if I was just offering a bit of caravan related advice or sharing a joke with other forum members because of the way that names are displayed on the message boards.

I'd hoped to add a nice discrete 'Moderator' tag in neat green text (green is the accepted colour for moderator tags on the internet) to my avatar but for one thing the word 'Moderator' wouldn't fit the available space and when I managed to get 'Moddy' it looks a total mess.

For some unknown reason I am unable to revert back to my old plain avatar, this new version continues to appear even when I select something else entirely, it would appear to be yet one more strange quirk in this strange forum software unfortunately.

 

[TonyG]

And there solves the mystery

 

[Steve L]

Hi Allan.
Sounds like the site you mention is realy not only ripping you off, but also breaking the trades driscriptions act with regard to sub-selling a utility service.

They are not supposed to sell you electricity at more than the unit price they pay for it. But there is a catch. If they could prove that potentially a 16amp electric hook up could use £5 worth of electricity in 24 hours of constant use, then they are technically right.

We are fulltiming at the mo and during last winter we had the heating on full blast and the electric water heater,kettle, TV running (obviously not all at once). But we only managed to use £3 a day max. During the period from 1st March to 31st October we averaged a mere 89p per day. I know all this info, because our supply is a 16amp metered supply charged at 10p per unit.
My only gripe with our system is the £21 admin fee for 2 meter readings (start & finish) and the caculation of the bill. Great hourly rate if you can get it. I reckon I could do 20 accounts in an hour, even using the calculator on my phone.

 

[RogerL]

There has never been any issue about pricing for the provision of an electric hook-up facilty because the price/cost includes the fixed cost of installation as well as the variable cost of the electricity itself.
What has been illegal, since Ofgem's ruling a few years ago, is to charge more for the supply of the electricity than it's cost.
This ruling was intended, successfully, to stop static site owners charging more for metered electricity than it cost them.
It was never intended to price-cap the provision of the pitch hook-up facility on touring sites which were unmetered, ie virtually all touring sites.
When the ruling came in the bigger touring site operators, including the Caravan Club, had to eliminate the 5% VAT which had been deducted as "electricity energy" rather than the (then) 17.5% applied to standard charges - as this meant sites paying more VAT to HM Revenue, many incorporated the hook-up charge in the pitch fee, with an increase, and used the Ofgem ruling as justification for the increase.
A site operator can make any FIXED charge they want for an unmetered hook-up facility - as long as all their charges are clear at time of booking there can be no complaint. If you don't like the total cost, don't make the booking. it's not a rip-off, it's supply and demand, if you don't pay it others will.

 

[ProfJohnL]

In simple terms, the site is charging for the access to the power bollard, and they cover the cost of the power used from the profit on the hire charge.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Duplicate post

 

[Martin24]

We use our solar panal all year and have never had a problem with the 5 of us so we never pay for electrics

 

[DavidO]

We have a CL in West Suffolk that is open all year.
Like all electric users we have seen hughe in creases in our electricity prices, this together with vans now being fitted with more electric consuming equipment , this has given us on our CL a problem, do we charge more per night to cover these costs or do we meter the electric being used. We had part of this problem solved when one of our vistors distroyed a hook up box. The new one has been fitted with meters for each piont. We have over the past year monitored how much is beening used, this information is being assed to see how we proceed in future. In summer about £1.50 per day covers the average usage and we are happy to include that as part of our per night charge, it is the difference in winter where our problems start. We have seen last winter some using £2 per day and some £5. As a result of these findings we plan for next year to have a per night cost in summer that includes electricity and winter the electric will be extra, We feel this way we are being fare to all our vistors. Your views on this would be most welcome.
In addition to the above have you ever given any thought to the costs incured dispossing of the waste from the bins, We have a large 4 wheeled bin that in peak season is well full each week. this now costs us £600 per year to have emptied,in addition we have the paper , plastic and glass which we take to our local recycling centre. I hate to think what the costs are on some og the large sites.
Dispite all the above we find running our CL is great fun and we get to meet some wonderfull folks.

 

[Surfer]

My only gripe with our system is the £21 admin fee for 2 meter readings (start & finish) and the caculation of the bill. Great hourly rate if you can get it. I reckon I could do 20 accounts in an hour, even using the calculator on my phone.

I think you will find that for the site manager charging an admin fee for meter readings is highly illegal especially if you cna read it yourself.

 

[Surfer]

We have a CL in West Suffolk that is open all year.
Like all electric users we have seen hughe in creases in our electricity prices, this together with vans now being fitted with more electric consuming equipment , this has given us on our CL a problem, do we charge more per night to cover these costs or do we meter the electric being used. We had part of this problem solved when one of our vistors distroyed a hook up box. The new one has been fitted with meters for each piont. We have over the past year monitored how much is beening used, this information is being assed to see how we proceed in future. In summer about £1.50 per day covers the average usage and we are happy to include that as part of our per night charge, it is the difference in winter where our problems start. We have seen last winter some using £2 per day and some £5. As a result of these findings we plan for next year to have a per night cost in summer that includes electricity and winter the electric will be extra, We feel this way we are being fare to all our vistors. Your views on this would be most welcome.
In addition to the above have you ever given any thought to the costs incured dispossing of the waste from the bins, We have a large 4 wheeled bin that in peak season is well full each week. this now costs us £600 per year to have emptied,in addition we have the paper , plastic and glass which we take to our local recycling centre. I hate to think what the costs are on some og the large sites.
Dispite all the above we find running our CL is great fun and we get to meet some wonderfull folks.

It was your choice to operate a CL for which many members are gratefull, but there is no point in moaning about costs as they should have been taken into consideraton before you even opened the CL.
I do understand your point about increasing the price in winter as it makes economic sense, but when main sites are decreasing their prices to attract customer, you may be on a loser there for a start. A site near us tried it last year and although cheaper than a main CC sitge by about £1 it was preferable to use the main CC site with all the facilities and hardstanding so think very carefully about it before increasing prices for winter.
Personally we would never use a site that had metered electric or had a fixed flat charge per night for the use of the electric bollard and we are very considerate with usage when connected up. It is simpler for a CL owner to downgrade the ampere from 10amp to 6 amp as that way there is less hassle and people probably would rather use gas than have to keep re-setting the mains.

 

[RogerL]

We have a CL in West Suffolk that is open all year.
Like all electric users we have seen hughe in creases in our electricity prices, this together with vans now being fitted with more electric consuming equipment , this has given us on our CL a problem, do we charge more per night to cover these costs or do we meter the electric being used. We had part of this problem solved when one of our vistors distroyed a hook up box. The new one has been fitted with meters for each piont. We have over the past year monitored how much is beening used, this information is being assed to see how we proceed in future. In summer about £1.50 per day covers the average usage and we are happy to include that as part of our per night charge, it is the difference in winter where our problems start. We have seen last winter some using £2 per day and some £5. As a result of these findings we plan for next year to have a per night cost in summer that includes electricity and winter the electric will be extra, We feel this way we are being fare to all our vistors. Your views on this would be most welcome.
In addition to the above have you ever given any thought to the costs incured dispossing of the waste from the bins, We have a large 4 wheeled bin that in peak season is well full each week. this now costs us £600 per year to have emptied,in addition we have the paper , plastic and glass which we take to our local recycling centre. I hate to think what the costs are on some og the large sites.
Dispite all the above we find running our CL is great fun and we get to meet some wonderfull folks.

Many caravanners think, wrongly, that small sites have little of no costs to bear but I can quite believe the electric consumption figure you're quoting and the costs have to be met somewhere.
Summer demand pushes pitch prices up in summer but electric use is lower - and conversely - the off-season lack of demand reduces pitch prices but electricity use is much higher - many CLs charge the same all year round to reflect this.
I don't understand caravanners who WON'T use sites with a particular feature in their charge structure - as long as the structure is visible at time of booking it's a bit like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
Metering will eventually become universal IMO - those who object to that because of increased cost need to get better control of their energy usage - or simply pay for what they use.

 

[Surfer]

To fit a meters on each individual supply can cost up to £500 on each supply so it will take a long time to break even as that cost cannot be passed onto the consumer. Sub meters which are different can be fitted at a lower cost but then you may need to have them certified annually to show accuracy to validate charging customers per unit consumed.
In addition, they need to prove that they are not charging you any more than they are paying and they cannot include a standing charge. Don't forget the initial outlay for the electricla installation.
It will take a very long time, possibly not in our lifetime when all sites become metered. At that point it may be more benficial to invest in a fuel cell whicha re availab le agt present but at a high initial outlay.

 

[RogerL]

as that cost cannot be passed onto the consumer.

Sites can increase the cost of pitch fees to cover all infrastructure costs.

 

[Dustydog]

We stayed a few nights at a very pleasant site at Aviemore five years ago. The electricity was purchased separately from the site fee by way of a "palstic card" that could be topped up as required during normal working hours. The minimum spend was £2.00 and this was certainly, at that time ,sufficient for the night's use. However for fear of running out too early we had a tendancy to over buy. No refund weas available.
Personally I prefer "all inclusive". Do I really want sites to start charging the Ryanair method

 

[Surfer]

as that cost cannot be passed onto the consumer.

Sites can increase the cost of pitch fees to cover all infrastructure costs.

That is one way to do it and also to lose customers as who would want to pay an increased cost for the pitch plus electric costs. People are not that daft or stupid and will realise what is going on.

 

[DavidO]

Surfer
Re your costing our total costs to replace the damaged box holding 3 sokets was £450 this included the meters. We have concerns re the costs involved re electricity,as we all know its costing electricity more,and modern caravans have more electical gadgets in them. If we have a fixed cost do we base this on the high user or the low one, either way someone will be subisdising the other. It makes life simple to just have a per night fee.
Re the comment about when we set up our CL and costs, we stsrted some 14 years ago, and our fees were £5 per night including hook up. today we are £10 per night for a fully serviced pitch including tv.
Our Concern is overheads which we have no control over are increasing rapidly, if we cannot pass these on at what piont do we close the site, after all we are not a charity. To date we have had our propsals to meter the electricity well recieved. As at this time we have 5vans on site.and as on passing for the first time I can remember I had to cut the grass this week, the middle of November!

 

[emmerson]

I'll bet Surfer won't be welcome on David's CL!
Come to think of it, with his attitude, he wouldn't be welcome on mine either!!

 

[RogerL]

as that cost cannot be passed onto the consumer.

Sites can increase the cost of pitch fees to cover all infrastructure costs.

That is one way to do it and also to lose customers as who would want to pay an increased cost for the pitch plus electric costs. People are not that daft or stupid and will realise what is going on.

Supply & demand controls site prices anyway - point is they can pass on the cost.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I've no problem with being metered and paying for what we use as long as we're not ripped off. Some complain that some CLs are more expensive than full sites but if that CL has something extra that full sites lack, like views or quietness, then again, I don't mind paying.

 

[Ladycaravan]

I am a new member and I have been reading this thread with interest. We are going through the process of setting up a CL site and it looks as if it would be a good idea to have metered hook ups just so that we can watch the costs. We don't plan to charge seperately at the moment. Do caravaners prefer to have a set cost per night to include electricity? We are now looking into the costs of installing hook ups. Does anyone recommend any installation companies and what is the cost of installing 6 hook ups? We have someone who will be moling in the electric cable ( probably 3 phase) and water pipe. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Do caravaners prefer to have a set cost per night to include electricity?

It makes it easier when working out the cost of a weeks stay if the nightly fee is inclusive but as I said above, it's not a big issue as long as I'm paying for the electric I've used. The metered cost seems a fairer way because some use more electric than others and one might be subsidising those who bring everything including leaving heaters on in the awning overnight. Again though, I'm not going to worry about this and let it bother me when away in the van.
Good luck with the CL and what part of the country are you?