EVs Then and Now.

Jun 20, 2005
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The Tesla Model S was launched in 2012 . So 10 years on I wonder where all the used models are? How are their batteries? How expensive? Or are they a Marie Celeste 😢
 
Jul 23, 2021
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Ridiculously expensive for the man in the street! We will never green with those numbers
That is for a car in the luxury baracket that was over 70K new. You may as well say that petrol mobility is too expensive while looking at used Mercedes S class or Jag XJ series. It's a pointless comparison. Having said that, it would be much cheaper to buy a comparable age Merc or Jag on the same miles with the same original list price. Why? Because they have potentially very expensive failures in the drive train and engine waiting to happen, and cost a lot more to run.
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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Because they have potentially very expensive failures in the drive train and engine waiting to happen, and cost a lot more to run.
That may be true but even if you had to spend £10000 on a new engine you are still quids ahead!
 
Jun 20, 2005
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That is for a car in the luxury baracket that was over 70K new. You may as well say that petrol mobility is too expensive while looking at used Mercedes S class or Jag XJ series. It's a pointless comparison. Having said that, it would be much cheaper to buy a comparable age Merc or Jag on the same miles with the same original list price. Why? Because they have potentially very expensive failures in the drive train and engine waiting to happen, and cost a lot more to run.
Lost on me. My VW new wasn’t far off those numbers. Three years on was very attractively priced. Why would the average man pay do much for a ten year old car which frankly doesn’t satisfy most peoples needs nor hard earned money? I said I am all for green stuff but at a realistic price
 
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Jul 23, 2021
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Lost on me. My VW new wasn’t far off those numbers. Three years on was very attractively priced. Why would the average man pay do much for a ten year old car which frankly doesn’t satisfy most peoples needs nor hard earned money? I said I am all for green stuff but at a realistic price
1) Nobody in their right mind buys anything (car or otherwise) that doesn't satisfy their needs. Your needs are simply not the same as others who are buing them.
2) Those cars sell. Fast. They are priced at market value. Just a different market to the one that perhaps you are looking at?
3) Nobody expects anyone to go and buy a 35K tesla, used or new, if a) they cant afford it and b) its not useful to them.

The OP (DD) asked ;
where are all the cars? The answer is driving arround.
how is the battery life after this time? the answer is around or above 90%.
He asked what are they worth? the answer is a lot more than you would think because nothing goes wrong, they are still under warranty and some have free fuel for life.
 
Jul 23, 2021
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That may be true but even if you had to spend £10000 on a new engine you are still quids ahead!
Sure - and if you live in London the tesla save you a potential 12K a year in Congestion charge and ULEV charges, not to mention potentialy thousands in fuel.
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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My post was about affordability for the average person in particular moving towards ICE free fuels etc, Everything quoted by Tobes proves imo the magic fossil fuel target date won’t happen.
Is there really a free lunch for life? Sounds good , perpetual motion?
 
Jul 23, 2021
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My post was about affordability for the average person in particular moving towards ICE free fuels etc, Everything quoted by Tobes proves imo the magic fossil fuel target date won’t happen.
Is there really a free lunch for life? Sounds good , perpetual motion?
Early Teslas were sold with free supercharging for life. It was a benefit to being an early adopter. Those cars are worth a huge amount as you can literly drive up to a tesla supercharger and charge for free for the life of the car.
 
Jan 31, 2018
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As Tobes says, EVs are proving to be super reliable and have high resale prices. If you do want a more realistic priced car look at second hand values of Nissan Leafs which are getting on to be 10 years old too-even they are fetching amazing money-more than the equivalent Ford Focus etc that's the same size-guess why? Cheap to run massively reliable and for most people most of the time even their 80 mile range (wasn't great when new and the Nissan battery management isn't as good as a Tesla). They wouldn't suit a lot of families as their only car but as a second car they're on to a winner!
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Granted the initial purchase price is a major difference, though the price differentials of new EV cars are now beginning to come closer to
equivalent ICE vehicles, and there are many pundits predicting that soon the differences will almost be negligible as battery costs continue to fall. But the true full cost of ownership between ICE and EV are already favouring EV's becasue their running costs ( fuel, tax, servicing and resale values ) are so much better for EV's.u

However it still doesn't help so much for caravanners, because it does seem that despite the prodigious torque and power output for electric motors which should lend themselves to towing, the car manufacturers do seem to limit the towed weights allowed.
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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Granted the initial purchase price is a major difference, though the price differentials of new EV cars are now beginning to come closer to
equivalent ICE vehicles, and there are many pundits predicting that soon the differences will almost be negligible as battery costs continue to fall. But the true full cost of ownership between ICE and EV are already favouring EV's becasue their running costs ( fuel, tax, servicing and resale values ) are so much better for EV's.u

However it still doesn't help so much for caravanners, because it does seem that despite the prodigious torque and power output for electric motors which should lend themselves to towing, the car manufacturers do seem to limit the towed weights allowed.
Prof, it really is stretching my brain to comprehend why an EV ten years on is realistically still beyond the pocket of Mr Average. Forget towing. It has been suggested I look at a Nissan Leaf. Why would I want one of those in place of my VW Touareg? Seems to me market pricing, forces, are actually pushing EVs way beyond the affordability of most making an ICE free market unsustainable.
 
Jan 31, 2018
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You just said put aside towing Dusty; it was an example of a car and as relevant as a Tesla S which wouldn't be the best towcar anyway-not sure if it can and what it can tbh!
 
Jun 20, 2005
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You just said put aside towing Dusty; it was an example of a car and as relevant as a Tesla S which wouldn't be the best towcar anyway-not sure if it can and what it can tbh!
This post has nothing to do with towing with an EV. We have done that subject to death on other threads. This is about affordability of EVs when the shutter comes down on ICEs
 
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Nov 6, 2005
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This post has nothing to do with towing with an EV. We have done that subject to death on other threads. This is about affordability of EVs when the shutter comes down on ICEs
At present, it looks like the used car market will continue to make IC cars available at sensible prices for a long time because the price differential between them and EVs shows no sign of reducing.

It's generally true that annual car mileages reduce quite significantly as the car ages - so any cost saving from EVs will have reducing value as they get older making it harder to justify the price premium for an EV.

Ironically, any increase in demand for IC cars once the sale of new ones is banned will push the price of used IC cars up.
 
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At present, it looks like the used car market will continue to make IC cars available at sensible prices for a long time because the price differential between them and EVs shows no sign of reducing.

It's generally true that annual car mileages reduce quite significantly as the car ages - so any cost saving from EVs will have reducing value as they get older making it harder to justify the price premium for an EV.

Ironically, any increase in demand for IC cars once the sale of new ones is banned will push the price of used IC cars up.
At sensible prices isn’t the present position with used cars. Our Rio bought autumn 2019 is now valued £2.5 k more than when we bought it. Our granddaughter has been around this evening quite down after spending a day touring car dealerships for her first car. She has saved nearly £4000 but unless she is willing to accept a very high mileage car the asking prices are very high. She looked at a basic Peugeot 208, 2013, two owners and FSH. Priced at £3800 and non negotiable. There are signs that the used market is stabilising but with the delays to new cars coming onto the market it will not reduce until the new market improves.

But as regarding availability of ICE cars they will be around for years to come.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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I have noticed, as others have used car prices have shot up. Buying a second hand car as a first car is probably best, a well known Asian car with say 60 k miles will run another 40k. Bought for less than 4k.
My older, motorcycle 2008 , CBF500 Honda, bought 2 years ago is now selling for £500 to £800, more. Daft prices.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Prof, it really is stretching my brain to comprehend why an EV ten years on is realistically still beyond the pocket of Mr Average.

I sorry but I don't follow your logic in the above statement in the context of my last post. Did I say a ten yrar old EV was beyond mr Average - how ever you define average?


Forget towing. It has been suggested I look at a Nissan Leaf. Why would I want one of those in place of my VW Touareg? Seems to me market pricing, forces, are actually pushing EVs way beyond the affordability of most making an ICE free market unsustainable.
Did I suggest you should look at a Leaf? Yet alone that it was a replacement for Touareg?

I thought I had made the point that you should not look just at the retail price new, or second hand as the measure of affordability , You have to look at whole life costs.

As has been discussed many times before, just becasue the sale of new ICE cars will be banned at a particular date, there will be an ongoing pool of secondhand ICE vehicles for several decade after the date. Only of there is political or financial pressure the use of some ICE will continue for many decades.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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I sorry but I don't follow your logic in the above statement in the context of my last post. Did I say a ten yrar old EV was beyond mr Average - how ever you define average?



Did I suggest you should look at a Leaf? Yet alone that it was a replacement for Touareg?

I thought I had made the point that you should not look just at the retail price new, or second hand as the measure of affordability , You have to look at whole life costs.

As has been discussed many times before, just becasue the sale of new ICE cars will be banned at a particular date, there will be an ongoing pool of secondhand ICE vehicles for several decade after the date. Only of there is political or financial pressure the use of some ICE will continue for many decades.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Mr Average. Sorry if my wording is unclear. My point is simply if the EV used prices are today so high in relation to an ICE how will the “average “person afford a used EV when ICEs cease to be produced.
No you didn’t suggest a Leaf, hence I said it has been suggested.
The basic simple point is that ten years on an used EV remains beyond the financial reach of Mr Average.
 
Jul 23, 2021
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Mr Average. Sorry if my wording is unclear. My point is simply if the EV used prices are today so high in relation to an ICE how will the “average “person afford a used EV when ICEs cease to be produced.
No you didn’t suggest a Leaf, hence I said it has been suggested.
The basic simple point is that ten years on an used EV remains beyond the financial reach of Mr Average.
Just to check. You are judging the affordability of the 2nd hand EV market for Mr. Average by looking at the 2nd hand price not of an average car, but of a Luxury car, in whos top spec is the fastest accelerating mass production car ever sold? You might as well judge the 2nd hand petrol market by looking at the second hand prices of BMW M5s or Porsche 911s.
But if you look at the price of a 2nd hand leaf or ZoE, you will find a bunch of examples under 10k and a fair number under 8k.
Not many, but that’s because they didn’t sell many early on, and that makes them rare, so in demand (especially now). But they are the Mr Average cars. Not luxury super saloons.
 

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