Has anyone ever fitted an extra water heater in their van? I find that the supply of hot water to the shower is just inadequate, even though after a number of years I'm used to showering quickly. The supply in my latest 'van (Senator Indianna) seems even worse. My idea was to fit an additional heater in series to the existing one, working only on electricity so I wouldn't have to worry about an extra flue etc. Is this practical or can I buy a bigger heater and replace the existing one?
Extra Water Heater
- Thread starter PaulT
- Start date
Have you tried running your heater on gas just before and during the shower? This can increase the temperature of the water, meaning you use less of it for a set shower. You could also use it combined with electric for a short period.
Lol
Lol
How far away is your heater from your shower, Paul? The reason I ask is that we have a 2004 Wyoming, where the actual heater is sited close to the shower. The pipe runs are short and internal, does your water have far to travel before it gets to the washroom? We get two reasonable showers out of ours, so can't understand why you don't get the same. Plumbing an extra water heater in with all the associated wiring is going to be expensive even if it is possible; the same goes for upgrading to a bigger heater, if one exists. Could it be that your present one is faulty?
At the very least I would look at warming up the cold water in the aqua roll first, perhaps with a small immersion heater.
At the very least I would look at warming up the cold water in the aqua roll first, perhaps with a small immersion heater.
We have the same problem with our Indiana,I think it is more that the shower is using so much water and am looking for a more economical shower head.We also put gas and electric on and try to be careful not to waste water when showering just so it doesnt run out
Paul T,
My LMC came with a 5ltr electric water heater, I fitted another the same size In PARALLEL with the original, IE cold in from a `T` to both heaters, hot out to a `T` and then to taps,
The electric switches were large enough to handle the extra load.
Good look Tony A.
My LMC came with a 5ltr electric water heater, I fitted another the same size In PARALLEL with the original, IE cold in from a `T` to both heaters, hot out to a `T` and then to taps,
The electric switches were large enough to handle the extra load.
Good look Tony A.
Mine also came with a 5 litre Truma Therme which I replaced with a 14 litre Truma Elektroboiler, 230vac, 850 watts.
I take it that yours, PaulT, is a conventional 10 litre Truma gas/ electric, if so you could add an Elektroboiler in series.
If you have space close to your present boiler it would be a simple job with minimal plumbing and wiring. You would need just one small hole through the floor for the drain tap.
You can download an Installation Manual from www.truma.com to size the job. Don't use www.trumauk as they don't supply this manual.
I take it that yours, PaulT, is a conventional 10 litre Truma gas/ electric, if so you could add an Elektroboiler in series.
If you have space close to your present boiler it would be a simple job with minimal plumbing and wiring. You would need just one small hole through the floor for the drain tap.
You can download an Installation Manual from www.truma.com to size the job. Don't use www.trumauk as they don't supply this manual.
Most Baileys are fitted with a 10 litre water heater, although the Senator may have the 15 litre version. You therefore have 10 - 15 litres of water at 70 degrees (fixed electric / max gas).
If you mix this with the same quantity of cold water, at 10 degrees, you'll have just 20 - 30 litres of water at 40 degrees.
A normal submersible pump will provide 12 litres a minute which will allow showering for just 1.7 - 2.5 minutes. Even with both gas and electric heating the water very little extra hot water will be generated while showering.
I personally regard a shower installation in a caravan as an impractical show of one-upmanship.
Use on-site facilities or strip-wash - the shower compartment is for storage, not use!
If you mix this with the same quantity of cold water, at 10 degrees, you'll have just 20 - 30 litres of water at 40 degrees.
A normal submersible pump will provide 12 litres a minute which will allow showering for just 1.7 - 2.5 minutes. Even with both gas and electric heating the water very little extra hot water will be generated while showering.
I personally regard a shower installation in a caravan as an impractical show of one-upmanship.
Use on-site facilities or strip-wash - the shower compartment is for storage, not use!
I agree with Roger, don't use the shower, it's way too posh. While were at it, don't use your oven or grill, who ever heard of cooking in their house box, get outside and use a camp fire.
And for all you softies that think you should sleep in your caravan, are camp beds not good enough? Why on earth anyone would like to make use of the facilities that carvans have to offer, is beyond me. Back in the old days we used a shed on wheels and the wheels were often optional, we still enjoyed every moment of it and I have the scars to prove it.
SShheeshh, showers in vans, what ever next, colour televisions?
No, don't make me laugh..........
And for all you softies that think you should sleep in your caravan, are camp beds not good enough? Why on earth anyone would like to make use of the facilities that carvans have to offer, is beyond me. Back in the old days we used a shed on wheels and the wheels were often optional, we still enjoyed every moment of it and I have the scars to prove it.
SShheeshh, showers in vans, what ever next, colour televisions?
No, don't make me laugh..........
Is this a serious comment? Not all us like to go to sites with every possible facility (and the attendant crowds). We often go to Forestry Commision sites that only have a water supply and waste disposal facilities. Even when we are on a site with all facilities why on earth should we traipse across the site with our towels etc to have a shower. We've always had a shower facility in the van and we've always used it.
I suppose it is a fair way from the heater to the shower but not as far as in our old Ranger which always gave a good shower. We always use the onboard tank so the incoming water is at room temperature but I wouldn't want to heat it any more - thanks for the suggestion anyway.
Old age msut be getting to me! Until you'd said it, I'd forgotten that on my last but one van I replaced the shower rose with one that gave out less water. B & Q here I come!
I have a Lunar 640 and want a bigger water boiler as the 10l is inadequate for us. I have had a look at the instruction manual but it is a bit difficult to fathom out how to connect them in series. Does the new auxiliary one feed the original with hot water which in turn feeds the shower or do they both drain at about the same time?
If you intend to use 2 different type of heater, then I would connect them in series. If say, you use an Elektroboiler with a Truma gas/electric boiler, I would feed the Elektroboiler into the Gas /electric boiler and then onto the taps & shower.
This way if you are on a non-electric site you can just use gas in the normal way.
In the case of TonyA, he is using two identical, 230vac only, Truma Therme boilers so is correct in using them in parallel.
This way if you are on a non-electric site you can just use gas in the normal way.
In the case of TonyA, he is using two identical, 230vac only, Truma Therme boilers so is correct in using them in parallel.
I was highlighting the poor capacity of caravan showers, not commenting about choice of sites. We prefer CLs or non-facility club sites ourselves, but don't bother with the caravan shower, it's too impractical to use. If you can shower in 2.5 minutes that's fine - we can't!
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello PaulT
I sympathise with your difficulty, the de-facto type of water heater fitted to touring to-days caravans uses a storage tank. Construction regulations limit the heat input to these devices and as such they will never provide continuous hot-water for showering. Some people still remember the instantaneous wall mounted heaters with the exposed lighting hole. These could provide limited quantities of continuous hot water, but for safety and legal reasons these are outlawed in touring caravans.
The sizes of water heaters are designed in consideration of the physical space available, the additional weight of the water, as well as the ability to supply the heater with water from the portable cold water tanks, and don't forget that waste water has to be taken away.
All these factors tend to limit the size of practical heater tank you can accommodate.
The size of the burner, is limited by the ability to create a heat exchange that complies with legal minimum efficiency within the limited space of a caravan locker. This is considerably more complex than it might seem.
For those with electric heating element, again there are limits created by the available supply to caravans. Although technically 16A (3.5kW) may be available at some sites but much less at others, and of course caravanners will want to use other appliances at the same time as the water heater, so to prevent drawing too much current the size of the heating element is kept down, and the largest available is typically about 1kW.
A domestic electric shower will be rated at a minimum of 8kW and up to 11kW, and if you have experienced one of these you will know that the volume of water can still leave a lot to be desired, so with the much smaller heat input rates of a caravan ( gas about 1kW, & Elec.1 kW) there is no way that you would achieve continuous hot water for a shower.
With a knowledge of these practical limit, hopefully you can see that to expect to have a shower that is as powerful and as long lasting as a domestic one is in reality unreasonable.
Note for Roger L, I would be surprised if the water flow through you caravan shower achieved 12L/min.That figure is probably for the pump with no restrictions such as hoses and head heights.
I sympathise with your difficulty, the de-facto type of water heater fitted to touring to-days caravans uses a storage tank. Construction regulations limit the heat input to these devices and as such they will never provide continuous hot-water for showering. Some people still remember the instantaneous wall mounted heaters with the exposed lighting hole. These could provide limited quantities of continuous hot water, but for safety and legal reasons these are outlawed in touring caravans.
The sizes of water heaters are designed in consideration of the physical space available, the additional weight of the water, as well as the ability to supply the heater with water from the portable cold water tanks, and don't forget that waste water has to be taken away.
All these factors tend to limit the size of practical heater tank you can accommodate.
The size of the burner, is limited by the ability to create a heat exchange that complies with legal minimum efficiency within the limited space of a caravan locker. This is considerably more complex than it might seem.
For those with electric heating element, again there are limits created by the available supply to caravans. Although technically 16A (3.5kW) may be available at some sites but much less at others, and of course caravanners will want to use other appliances at the same time as the water heater, so to prevent drawing too much current the size of the heating element is kept down, and the largest available is typically about 1kW.
A domestic electric shower will be rated at a minimum of 8kW and up to 11kW, and if you have experienced one of these you will know that the volume of water can still leave a lot to be desired, so with the much smaller heat input rates of a caravan ( gas about 1kW, & Elec.1 kW) there is no way that you would achieve continuous hot water for a shower.
With a knowledge of these practical limit, hopefully you can see that to expect to have a shower that is as powerful and as long lasting as a domestic one is in reality unreasonable.
Note for Roger L, I would be surprised if the water flow through you caravan shower achieved 12L/min.That figure is probably for the pump with no restrictions such as hoses and head heights.
It is not so much the continous hot water supply, but rather a reasonable amount and that is why we are considering fitting the Elekto boiler in series with the existing boiler.
As a matter of interest why can't one fit an instanteous water heater on the outside wall of the caravan. After all they are not very big. Or perhaps one that clips on the outside of the van once you arrive on site.
As a matter of interest why can't one fit an instanteous water heater on the outside wall of the caravan. After all they are not very big. Or perhaps one that clips on the outside of the van once you arrive on site.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Ian,
You used to be able to purchase an Instantaneous Water Heater (IWH) which at one time were fitted to some touring caravans. In common with the old ASCOT type domestic heaters they had an open flame and flue. This meant that the flame used air from the living space of the caravan and the flue was not sealed, so it was possible for un-burnt gas or flue products to escape into the living area.
The external part of the flue could easily get blocked or damaged and thus not work properly which could cause flue gasses to be retained in the caravan. Because of the small space in a caravan, and the relatively large gas usage of this type of heater, the amount of flue gas produced would very quickly begin to overwhelm the caravan.
The problem was further exacerbated because of the high gas usage, and the limited size of the appliance, the products of combustion were frequently heavy laced with Carbon Monoxide caused by incomplete combustion. CO is the deadly flue gas- it is odourless and colourless, and it is easily respirated and prevents the red blood cells from taking up oxygen.
All the above are safety related reasons and in them selves are sufficient reason to be very cautions about installing or using them, but they were outlawed for another reason which relates to their thermal efficiency. All gas appliances must archive at least 70% thermal efficiency (some have to be even higher these days).
There is also another operational issue: because of the high gas usage the regulator may not have sufficient throughput capacity and Butane bottles will self cool with such a high gas take off rate. In cooler weather (5 to 10C) the bottles would be chilled to the point where the vapour pressure in the bottle would be too low to supply the caravan.
I am not aware of any IWH appliance that is currently approved for use in a touring caravan, or one that can be mounted or demounted to the exterior of a caravan. Realistically I think there would be many justified safety issues about an externally mounted device.
You used to be able to purchase an Instantaneous Water Heater (IWH) which at one time were fitted to some touring caravans. In common with the old ASCOT type domestic heaters they had an open flame and flue. This meant that the flame used air from the living space of the caravan and the flue was not sealed, so it was possible for un-burnt gas or flue products to escape into the living area.
The external part of the flue could easily get blocked or damaged and thus not work properly which could cause flue gasses to be retained in the caravan. Because of the small space in a caravan, and the relatively large gas usage of this type of heater, the amount of flue gas produced would very quickly begin to overwhelm the caravan.
The problem was further exacerbated because of the high gas usage, and the limited size of the appliance, the products of combustion were frequently heavy laced with Carbon Monoxide caused by incomplete combustion. CO is the deadly flue gas- it is odourless and colourless, and it is easily respirated and prevents the red blood cells from taking up oxygen.
All the above are safety related reasons and in them selves are sufficient reason to be very cautions about installing or using them, but they were outlawed for another reason which relates to their thermal efficiency. All gas appliances must archive at least 70% thermal efficiency (some have to be even higher these days).
There is also another operational issue: because of the high gas usage the regulator may not have sufficient throughput capacity and Butane bottles will self cool with such a high gas take off rate. In cooler weather (5 to 10C) the bottles would be chilled to the point where the vapour pressure in the bottle would be too low to supply the caravan.
I am not aware of any IWH appliance that is currently approved for use in a touring caravan, or one that can be mounted or demounted to the exterior of a caravan. Realistically I think there would be many justified safety issues about an externally mounted device.
Ever tried getting wet, then turning off the shower whilst soaping and scrubbing and then turning the water on again to rinse?
Those of us who live in the country in New Zealand and rely on tank water (collected from the roof)attempt to save water, not waste it!
Saves on the number of times you have to empty your grey water too. Win win win.
Kiwi Pete
Those of us who live in the country in New Zealand and rely on tank water (collected from the roof)attempt to save water, not waste it!
Saves on the number of times you have to empty your grey water too. Win win win.
Kiwi Pete
Hi
That's what I do now but I find that even then I start to run out of hot water on the "final rinse".
That's what I do now but I find that even then I start to run out of hot water on the "final rinse".
Have to say I have been wondering about that.
Admittedly I don't normally use my inbuilt shower - it's there for emergency use BUT it has been used - and yes I used Pete's method - get wet , turn off , get clean , turn on and rinse , turn off.
The shower was fine and I still had water in my tank.
That was in my old Elddis Slipstream - haven't tried it in the new van yet - but the method will still be the same.
I think I would put up with anything rather than using a campsite shower block I just like my own surroundings and the security of knowing if I've forgotten anything its close at hand. Anyone replaced their standard shower head with one that has a button to cut the supply when you set it down?
Helen
Helen
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