Eyesight - Night Driving

[Anseo]

For the past 2 years I have noticed increasing difficulties when driving at night, I almost exclusively use narrow country roads for my commute.

Now I am wondering if I should be avoiding the dark narrow roads for the sake of my own safety and that of others, it really has become that bothersome.

Glare from oncoming headlights is the main problem, I decided that I should take advice from an optishan opthamolojist somebody who knows about eyeballs and how they work.

So off to Boots I went, bought a pair of not inexpensive reading glasses, to be honest they are not any better than some of the cheapo readers that I buy, but the eyeball specialist did say that my eyesight problems were rather insignificant, fair do's.

Onto the glare problem, I was advised that a pair of specs having the properties to reduce (he did not say eliminate) light scatter was recommended, so I purchased said recommended specs.

I tried them this morning, I found myself removing them frequently as at times I found my visibility was better with them off and also it seemed that at times there was a benefit when they were being worn.

OK, I have not given a sufficient time trial for the prescribed specs, but for half the journey it was safer to remove said specs than keep them on.

It's a real worry for me, right now I am thinking I should really avoid night time driving, I don't want to do that obviously, but is there a solution? have any of you found an answer to a similar problem?

I type this with a headache, a rarely encountered problem for me, perhaps wrongly I blame the onoff with the 'anti light scatter' specs being the contributing factor.

(Pun intended) what is your view on all of the above?

A bit worried is Anseo tonight :blink:

 

[otherclive]

The eyes ability to respond to changes in light reduces with age, as does its ability to detect objects in poor lighting conditions. The problem is compounded by the headlights used by cars. You have bixenon and LED lights which should be in self levelling systems but they don’t always compensate totally for vehicle movement. And the output intensity of those lights is higher than halogen. You then get those who fit higher intensity halogen without self levelling. I find as I get older night driving isn’t easy given that most roads are always busy. I regularly travel to the Midlands to see my 96 year old Dad who himself still drives. But in winter instead of returning via the Fosse I take the longer M69-5-4 A46 route as I find the motorways less dazzling given oncoming traffic is all on dip and separated from my carriageway. But obviously you can’t do that on all routes. Did your optician test for glaucoma. As a friend of mine had night driving problems and was subsequently diagnosed with glaucoma. Hope you find a way round it.

PS I find it worse in the Skoda with it being low than my previous Forester which rode higher. But that cars bixenons probably caused interference with on coming motorists even though it had self levelling suspension.

 

[Mel]

Hi Anseo. I was saying a similar thing to my OH recently. Driving in the dark is getting harder and harder as I get older. I wear reading glasses and a vari focal which helps me look from computer screen to printed document easily at work. But I don't need distance glasses, according to the optician.
I am not convinced that it is my eyes that are the issue, but my ability to process the visual information. Working out distance and location of car headlights seems to get ever harder. I live in fear of not seeing a cyclist, particularly members of the Invisible Cycling Club.
You are not alone.
Mel

 

[Martin24]

My eyes have always been affected by light of all types. It may sound a bit silly but I find at night when driving (not very often) I actually look and focus slightly to the left. Not enough to miss things, well not much anyway :blink: , but enough to save the head on glare. Luckily I've had the benefit of an elevated vehicle of one sort or another for many years now. Hope you get to the bottom of things. My eyes were the first sign that anything was wrong health wise when I was about 19 so I've always avoided high street opticians like the plague and been seen by independent ophthalmologists, usually hospital recommended.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree with Clive, the human deteriorates with age and coping with big contrasts is one aspect that tends to get worse.

But also as Clive points out there are now much brighter headlamps being fitted, which maybe great for teh driver who can see further with them, but they do produce much more glare for oncoming traffic even when they are adjusted properly. But the worst situation are those that have not been adjusted or can't be adjusted properly for beam direction.

Its even worse in the rain with reflected glare.

The other issue I find all too frequently are road markings that have been all but totally worn away and missing cats eyes. It's bad enough in the day yet alone at night.

 

[Craigyoung]

Morning , I have found in the last few years at driving in the night time or early morning is getting worse, I think it's the amount of people that have got the Xenon bulbs and Bright Lights now compared to what they used to be, then you have these other people that put their own in like someone else said that aren't lined up properly and point everywhere but the road , not as bad as I'm in the bus driving , the winter nights and winter mornings are worse for me as I start at 5 a.m. and it's still dark till about 7 and then on my late week I go to work at 3 ish when it's getting dark so I'm doing full shift in the dark driving I could be down the country and into France by the time I've done a shift!!!
And don't get me started on the amount of people driving without lights on because of these euro lights that are on the front of most cars now , I think there should be a £3o fine for people driving with no lights on .
Craig .

 

[Martin24]

I agree with Clive, the human deteriorates with age and coping with big contrasts is one aspect that tends to get worse.

But also as Clive points out there are now much brighter headlamps being fitted, which maybe great for teh driver who can see further with them, but they do produce much more glare for oncoming traffic even when they are adjusted properly. But the worst situation are those that have not been adjusted or can't be adjusted properly for beam direction.

Its even worse in the rain with reflected glare.

The other issue I find all too frequently are road markings that have been all but totally worn away and missing cats eyes. It's bad enough in the day yet alone at night.

Prof, we've been informed that the near side white lines are not going to be renewed in the area in a bid to slow people down because they can't see the that side of the road. What a great idea that is, not!

 

[emmerson]

And I thought it was just me! The dipped headlights on my 1993 Range Rover are no match for modern hi-intensity lights, so I am tempted to fit better bulbs, and to hell with the other driver's problems. After all, they don't care that I can't see, do they?
All right, that's a bit tongue-in-cheek,but, really, what else can I do?
Our LA has now cut out all street lights except where they are legally obliged to have them, so this has made a trip to our nearest town a bit of a nightmare, as the speed limit is 40mph, so no street lights.
Cyclists who insist on wearing black and pedestrians on the wrong side of the road take their lives in their hand regularly, and as for one-light w*****s, or has been mentioned the plonkers who drive with no rear lights cos the dashboard lights are on with the DRLs, well, I despair.
And the car just now coming towards me with no light at all on the driver's side, well, words fail me! On one recent trip to my daughters, 29 miles, we counted over 100 vehicles with faulty lights.
Wouldn't it be novel to have a police roadside checkpoint? The income in fines would be huge!
Sorry, rant over. I do get a bit carried away!

BTW, the astericked word was "wasters", not what you thought!

 

[Gabsgrandad]

"Wasters" --- Don't believe you!
Had cataracts operations on both eyes, several years ago, you've never seen stars in your eyes 'til you've suffered with them. Had to give up night driving all together because of them. Every head light and even street lights looked like a bunch of brights stars. However since I had the operations (a few years back now) and had 'plastic' eyes fitted it's a different world, superb long vision now and specs for reading. No problem! (Or as the optician said to a friend, when he complained that he couldn't see very far, optician took him to the door and said "What's that" pointing to the sky, "It's the sun!" ---- Well how far do you want to see?" Was the response!

 

[Craigyoung]

And the car just now coming towards me with no light at all on the driver's side, well, words fail me! On one recent trip to my daughters, 29 miles, we counted over 100 vehicles with faulty lights.
Wouldn't it be novel to have a police roadside checkpoint? The income in fines would be huge!
Sorry, rant over. I do get a bit carried away!
BTW, the astericked word was "wasters", not what you thought!

You weren't driving whilst sending this post were you Emmerson !!

 

[Dustydog]

My eyes have changed a lot over the years. I no longer need glassses for driving but need very long arms to read
Contrary to Emmo’s point I find night time driving in towns with street lighting more challenging than the unlit country lanes. For me there are so many different stationary and moving lights in towns including zebra crossings the lights seem to merge. Maybe I’ve got too used to living in the sticks B)

 

[otherclive]

My eyes have changed a lot over the years. I no longer need glassses for driving but need very long arms to read
Contrary to Emmo’s point I find night time driving in towns with street lighting more challenging than the unlit country lanes. For me there are so many different stationary and moving lights in towns including zebra crossings the lights seem to merge. Maybe I’ve got too used to living in the sticks B)

Similarly to you my long distance vision without glasses is now better than with glasses which I have worn since the mid 70's. But I still have to wear them for driving as otherwise I cannot clearly see the instruments. But it is now ace for birdwatching as for the first time in nearly 40 years I can use my binoculars without the eyepiece caps rolled up.

 

[Dustydog]

I forgot to say keeping the windscreen thoroughly clean with “Fast Glass” or equivalent also helps reduce the refracted glare from oncoming vehicles.

 

[Gafferbill]

I discovered that you need to be aware of..........

Admitting the need to have eyesight correction for driving and meeting the standard.
The need to inform the DVLA once you are using eyesight correction.
The recognition that this will be recorded on your driving license with the general restriction code 01.
The fact that it will then become illegal to drive without using that correction.

I have varifocals for driving as I am borderline as regards meeting the driving standard.......at first I did not realise I would be breaking the law if I did not wear them at all times when driving hmy:

 

[otherclive]

I discovered that you need to be aware of..........

Admitting the need to have eyesight correction for driving and meeting the standard.
The need to inform the DVLA once you are using eyesight correction.
The recognition that this will be recorded on your driving license with the general restriction code 01.
The fact that it will then become illegal to drive without using that correction.

I have varifocals for driving as I am borderline as regards meeting the driving standard.......at first I did not realise I would be breaking the law if I did not wear them at all times when driving hmy:

That’s not what the DVLA website actually says. Yes if you need corrrctive aids or glasses as we would call them you must wear them when driving if they are required to meet the driving eyesight requirements. You also have to tell them if you have a problem with one or both eyes. But this doesn’t include long or short sightedness. So it’s only certain types of eyesight problems that are required to be recorded. If any doubt it’s best to look at the DVLA website.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/visual-disorders-assessing-fitness-to-drive

 

[emmerson]

I wear varifocal specs all the time, and have an eye test every year, so don't think the problem is my sight.
My problem is that with very powerful lights coming towards me, which are dipped to their left, my lights (also dipped to my left) are not powerful enough to counteract the glare from the oncomers, therefore the left hand road edge is in shadow. What I need is something to light that bit of road.
I have fitted DRLs, but apparently they must extinguish when dipped beam is on, so no good for what I want.
Possibly a low-mounted spotlight, aimed at the left-hand kerb? Sorry, no! extra lights must be fitted at a certain height from the ground, and what I want would infringe that rule.
So, back to square one: big fat juicy bulbs, and say sorry to oncoming drivers!

 

[otherclive]

I wear varifocal specs all the time, and have an eye test every year, so don't think the problem is my sight.
My problem is that with very powerful lights coming towards me, which are dipped to their left, my lights (also dipped to my left) are not powerful enough to counteract the glare from the oncomers, therefore the left hand road edge is in shadow. What I need is something to light that bit of road.
I have fitted DRLs, but apparently they must extinguish when dipped beam is on, so no good for what I want.
Possibly a low-mounted spotlight, aimed at the left-hand kerb? Sorry, no! extra lights must be fitted at a certain height from the ground, and what I want would infringe that rule.
So, back to square one: big fat juicy bulbs, and say sorry to oncoming drivers!

You can now get Phillips H7 and H4 LED replacements with phenomenal power at £175 for two. Osram do similar but at just below £100. But they are not road legal in the EU, off road use only. But reading various reviews there are certainly a lot of buyers who seem willing to fit them. One review did say that their cut offs were so sharp that they didn't digress from the standard halogen bulbs but the foot print was so much brighter. But it is not so much the cut off that causes problems to oncoming cars it's the movement of the light beam in the other motorists eyes caused by vehicles movement during acceleration and road surface variations, rises in the road, corners etc. Even many of the LED replacements for indicators, side markers (5w equivalent) aren't approved for road use.

 

[emmerson]

Thanks Clive, but that's a lot of money for illegal lights!

 

[Craigyoung]

Hi ,
regarding these powerful lights but copies that are cheaper ; don't know if anyone caught the program a few weeks ago called Fake Britain but it was showing you the difference between proper Xenon lights and the fake ones and obviously the price difference is one but it was showing you what the damage they do once put into the fitting, some are off balance and pointing up which is what we are talking about now, being blinded and that the dangerous thing was you were burning the rubber on the seal on the inside, not that you can see that from where you're sitting which could cause a fire in the engine

Craig

 

[otherclive]

Hi ,
regarding these powerful lights but copies that are cheaper ; don't know if anyone caught the program a few weeks ago called Fake Britain but it was showing you the difference between proper Xenon lights and the fake ones and obviously the price difference is one but it was showing you what the damage they do once put into the fitting, some are off balance and pointing up which is what we are talking about now, being blinded and that the dangerous thing was you were burning the rubber on the seal on the inside, not that you can see that from where you're sitting which could cause a fire in the engine

Craig

Craig I would agree with you regarding Bixenon but the LEDs are even more powerful light output but with the power consumption of only 25 watts each. So that is less than half the normal H4/7 halogen bulb no risk therefor to the housings. So I can see why some would fit them regardless of their legality. The chances of being caught are zero and I guess they are taken out for the MoT too. But does it check brightness or just beam pattern?

 

[Craigyoung]

Clive, (all)
I am unsure of the brightness test but I know when I watched this program the other week it showed you the lines where within the bulb beam should be should I say, where as the fake bulbs away above where they should have been & not lined up accordingly causing it a nuisance or a hazard for oncoming drivers. But you can see why people do it when legit bulbs are a few hundred pounds and you can get copies or nearly the same ones for less than half the price . I myself paid £30 for a pair of Hdi's in the last car we had which give a much better light for the road slight blue/white colour, never once failed an MOT and was never once pulled up on them, but in this recent one we have I'm not touching them.

 

[camel]

Just hope Clarkson is not reading this thread,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Not sure what Camels comment is about?

Having done a bit of research into the MOT for cars, as far as I have found the present test does not include any formal test of light intensity.

The only reference to intensity is the Main beams must be similar to each other, and the dipped beams must be similar to each other. But dipped and main beams can be different intensities. It is basically up to the mot examination technician to decide if the intensities are close enough.

UK Beam pattern requirements must still be observed by all types of headlamp light sources. This is checked by the MOT.

Within the current UK lighting regs, HID and LED bulbs are not mentioned, It is accepted that the absence of any mentions of HID or LED systems in the act of parliament technically excludes them from being used. But as the UK is aligned with the EU directives on vehicle lighting, new cars with manufacture fitted HID or LED lighting are permitted in the UK. These will be automatically self levelling and will also have some forms of wash wipe system to keep the outer lens clean.

It is accepted that self levelling suspension is one to satisfy the beam levelling requirement.

As it stands there is no legislation in the UK that permits just the replacement of filament bulbs with HID (and LED) bulbs in older cars. The reason for this is the beam reflectors for filament bulbs will not correctly collect and focus the the light from an HID/LED bulb.

It seems it is permitted to replace the bulb and headlight unit provided the unit is designed for HID/LED type bulbs. Obviously not all older cars will have HID/LED compatible headlight fittings available. It is also a requirement that if HID bulbs are fitted that too must be automatically self levelling and have a wash system to keep the outer lens clear.

See
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/408941/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf

and

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/5/made

 

[otherclive]

Clive, (all)
I am unsure of the brightness test but I know when I watched this program the other week it showed you the lines where within the bulb beam should be should I say, where as the fake bulbs away above where they should have been & not lined up accordingly causing it a nuisance or a hazard for oncoming drivers. But you can see why people do it when legit bulbs are a few hundred pounds and you can get copies or nearly the same ones for less than half the price . I myself paid £30 for a pair of Hdi's in the last car we had which give a much better light for the road slight blue/white colour, never once failed an MOT and was never once pulled up on them, but in this recent one we have I'm not touching them.

Not sure what you mean by “legit bulbs”. Whilst Osram and Phillips are recognised manufacturers of light bulbs and their bulbs are presumably legit, it’s still not legal to convert halogen to LED as the LED haven’t been approved for road use as replacements to standard halogens. Similarly with HID conversions although there are plenty of plug and play kits available to buy. But I can understand why people are fitting them given the plethora of bad/ bright lights on other cars and the poor markings on our rural roads. The uprated brighter halogens are legal but have a much shorter life. Phillips Race Vision can be down to 200 hours or less which isn’t very much if you have many out of town journeys in winter. Final point. If you’ve got HID in the Kuga why would you want to touch them, other than if a bulb fails?

 

[Craigyoung]

Clive, I meant legit bulbs by not being copy bulbs of decent ones and if you see my post I said I am not touching my bulbs in the Kuga .