F A O Nigel Donnelly

[SirRogerFFS]

Nigel

While I am very happy with my Pegasus, I note (and fully understand) numerous posts on various forums stating that the empty noseweight is high. Not many towcars excepting 4x4s have 100kg noseweight limits.

As this is an item that is not quoted in brochures, could this be an item that is added to the magazine caravan tests? This could save people making expensive (or illegal) mistakes.

Many thanks

Alan

 

[Lutz]

There is little point in publishing noseweights as noseweight depends entirely on how the payload is distributed within the caravan and this is specific to what and where the owner places the stuff on board. Even the ex-works noseweight may vary depending on what factory fitted options are included. Only if the unladen caravan has excessive noseweight is there any point in mentioning it in the tests. This would tell the prospective owner that counterbalancing ballast may be required when he picks his new caravan up from the dealer and he should come prepared.

 

[Zafiral]

Lutz, that is the issue with the Pegasus, even without the optional chest the ex works weight of the 524 is 78kg. Add a couple of gas bottles and serious back loading could be needed if you have a 70kg or less noseweight.

I am not blaming the caravan manufacturers, the NCC recommends 7% noseweight, but the information could be useful to prospective buyers.

 

[Lutz]

If the ex-works noseweight turns out to be 78kg then this should be mentioned in a test although it should be pointed out that noseweight may vary and one cannot rely on all leaving the factory with exactly 78kg. I agree, however, that it would help prospective customers to be aware that they may have to bring along ballast when picking their new caravan up. Such a situation is not optimal and I do feel that one can blame the caravan manufacturers for not taking normal (75kg) limits for cars into account without the need for measures to counterbalance excessive noseweight. They should be well aware that most cars have a 75kg limit.

 

[Zafiral]

Why should caravan manufacturers compromise the safety of people who have suitable towcars?

Remember 75kg is only 5% of 1480kg mtplm of my current van.

 

[Lutz]

If people have cars with higher noseweight limits, fair enough, but the vast majority have regular saloon or estate cars with a 75kg limit, so one can just as well argue why should they have to forgo the delights of a caravan like yours?

 

[jmg12]

The reason it has such a high nose weight is theres too much ugly in it, although u would have the thought the cheap glow stick grab handles and tupperwear front locker lid would have reduced the weight somewhat

 

[Lutz]

I must admit that to my eyes it's not very elegant either, especially the front end (a full width front locker would have improved the appearance no end), but that's not the issue here.

A longer A-frame would have reduced the noseweight appreciably and improved stability even more.

 

[Zafiral]

My point here is not the relative beauty of the Pegasus, but I have no idea what the empty weight of rival vans is. To me the most valuable part of Practical Caravan reviews is to explore the things we can't tell by a quick look at your local dealers. To this point the towcar tests are invaluable.

Information such as empty noseweight is not easy to glean in a busy dealership.

 

[Lutz]

I think that both the customers and the media should put more pressure on the manufacturers to get the noseweight in the ex-works unladen condition within reasonable limits so that one does not have to put any ballast in the caravan when picking it up from the dealer.

One of the problems that I have already touched upon is the tendancy for some British caravan manufacturers in particular to keep the A-frame extremely short (presumably in an attempt to reduce overall length). I suspect that the chassis manufacturers, being primarily Continental, do not make allowance for this and there is inadequate coordination between them and the respective caravan manufacturers. A solution would be, for example, to move the axle further forward on caravans with a short A-frame, but the chassis manufacturer would have to be willing to make appropriate provisions in his design. Perhaps the volumes involved do not warrant such an effort, though.

I must say that my 1800kg single axle that I picked up last year was almost perfect at just over 50kg as it left the factory without anything in the locker. Once the spare wheel and the gas bottles went inside, it was spot on.

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Maybe the Mass Properties engineer at Bailey was having a day off when the design layout of the the 524 was signed off.

 

[Zafiral]

Sorry, but with some car manufacturers producing cars with a max noseweight of 4% of the tow weight (new Santa Fe auto as one example) I feel that this is too low for safety & should not be accepted & caravan safety be compromised for.

 

[Lutz]

Although a higher noseweight has inherent advantages, it would be unrealistic not to be able to tow any caravan within the car manufacturer's towload limit. My car has a 2000kg towload limit (of which I use 1800kg) but only 80kg noseweight. I can't say that this has ever given me problems or made me feel nervous when towing, so noseweight is not the only factor which determines a stable outfit.

 

[Zafiral]

As per the thread 'Bailey Olympus Nose Weight !!' in the technical section, it is not just Bailey vans with this issue.

 

[nrdonnelly]

Dear All,

Thanks for the feedback

Will see whether we hold ex works noseweight and if so, will see how soon we can include it

Regards

Nigel Donnelly

Editor

Practical Caravan

 

[Zafiral]

Nigel, thanks for that.

 

[Sedo]

Just as a matter of interest we tow a Peg 524 chest fitted, with a car capable of towing 2,000Kg (85%) and an 85Kg towball limit.

We've taken the Peg out a few times now and with a bit of jiggery pokery safely got the noseweight to 80-85Kg (using a Milenco gauge).

In fact we recently took it out and did 142 miles to test a gearbox E.C.U. for the car manufacturer.

It towed superbly well on a mixture of A and B roads and the M1 motorway.

I must admit I'd like to have the luxury of a 100Kg towball limit but we're more than happy with the car we use.

By the way we tow right through the year so it's not just fair weather towing.

Also we haven't found that the looks of the rig affect the noseweight either but I suppose it's worth checking on test.

Tom

 

[Zafiral]

Tom, using our Milenco guage, we are siting at about 95kg nose weight on our 524 with a chest, but we do have two full gas cylinders (BP light 5 & 10 kgs).

I agree that it tows brilliantly on the A, B roads and motorways. We are towing from Essex to near Mansfield this weekend and looking forward to it.

 

[slimseydy]

I am always checking my noseweight & never satisfied,have moulded spaces to carry 2 gas bottles in my front locker,but only carry 1,keep empty waste master in there & hose for the aqua roll,empty inside van,test nose weight & over 75 kg,fill van with bedding ,food deck chairs etc,nose weight around 85 kg,my laguna recomends 75kg max,so if I keep to manufacturers limit I have to send all the van items by DHL to the campsite as they can't go in the van,I try & carry what I can in the boot of the car at all times & soldier on .