First service on New (old Van)

[brian_c]

Well we have just had the first service carried out on the caravan we bought last year.
2000 model Avondale Dart 2 Berth
The day Before the mobile fitter arrived I tested everything and all working fine on both gas and electric.
Because of the caravans age we were a bit apprehensive that the guy would find a list of faults but were keen to have the servicing carried out mainly to ensure that the caravan is road worthy.
Yes he has found two faults but when he said that he couldn't find any signs of damp I was over the moon for want of a better phrase. The items he reported faded into insignificance after hearing those magic words.
The brakes were fine also with hardly any significant wear and he said the van was in really good condition.

The items he reported were that there is a small amount of springiness in the floor at the centre of the caravan. He says this is a small area of delamination but his advice is to leave it at the moment and check again next year if it's got worse. The other item surprised me a little because he reported a major leak on the gas side of the Carver Cascade water heater. He advised us that the unit would need a replacement module which includes the burner unit and electrical card etc.
He has isolated the gas supply to the unit so we can still operate ok using the electric. Whilst it's disappointing we very rarely visit sites now with no hook up so I think for now we are going to live with it. However the day before I filled the system with water and switched the water heater to gas and it worked fine. Just shows the benifit of having things checked periodically I had no idea there was a leak. I did in fact use it as well on my last outing in December so I guess the leak was there then as well.
So all in all I'm happy with our purchase, before we found this one we did see some awful samples in the price range we had limited ourselves to. But until you have had a professional opinion there are still doubts at the back of your mind.

Ready for the off now
Best wishes to all
Brian

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Brian,

Its good to read of the generally good condition of a 15 year old caravan. So I hope you will continue to have many happy caravanning years.

Your posting highlights one of the issues that I regularly get lampooned over, the need for systems to be checked professionally. Just because something appears to work satisfactorily does not mean there are no faults, and as you found it needs someone with the technical knowledge and the equipment to carry out the proper safety checks.

This becomes even more important as the age of the caravan increases.

So well done.

 

[brian_c]

Yes Prof. Equipment!! The guy had a pump with a gauge that he connected to the gas line he pumped it to a pressure then opened the circuits in turn as soon as he opened the water heater circuit the gauge pressure fell straight off. He checked for any joints leading up to the heater but gave me the impression that the operating valve within the heater was the problem. I will perhaps consider a repair if I feel the need later but the rough idea of the price he quoted has put me in mind of managing without for now. Had I not had the service I'm afraid I would have merrily gone on my way using the heater on both fuels.
Regards Brian

 

[Hutch]

I bought our first caravan , a Sterling Jewel, lovely van, never had a lot of water in the water hog. One day bringing the dog back from morning walk. Water cascadding from near shower area. The shower base was split, later we found a gas leak, When the dealer asked us when would we be booking in for a service!!! Not a chance. They sell bought in caravans withought fully checking out the bought in ones.
Come on the dealers, what do you say.
H.

 

[Martin24]

That's a really good result and goes to prove what many of us advice on professional inspection but also that condition out weighs age and price on all counts. Well done a pretty good find.

Hutch it's cheaper apparently for dealers to fix a few problems (however deadly) under warranty than to service the van properly before handing it over. Very dangerous but common practice I'm lead to believe.

 

[MichaelE]

I'm sure vans are checked, like anything its only as good as the person checking the van? You would like to think it's done properly?
Things do happen after they have been checked though?
We had a brand new Elddis, after 9 months the microwave failed , i checked the mains plug and it had no earth, checked back to the spur and the earth wire wasn't connected , this had an electrical certificate issued, but there was no way that socket could have been checked as it would have failed, being a metal microwave as well it could have been very serious if it developed an earth fault as the rcd wouldn't have helped?

 

[Hutch]

Another little gadget which I carry with us is the little electrical circuit tester , with the 3 lights, when we hookup, just plug it in to make sure we have an earth and the power is not crossed over.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Another little gadget which I carry with us is the little electrical circuit tester , with the 3 lights, when we hookup, just plug it in to make sure we have an earth and the power is not crossed over.

Same here, I'm very safety conscious.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I bought our first caravan , a Sterling Jewel, lovely van, never had a lot of water in the water hog. One day bringing the dog back from morning walk. Water cascadding from near shower area. The shower base was split, later we found a gas leak, When the dealer asked us when would we be booking in for a service!!! Not a chance. They sell bought in caravans withought fully checking out the bought in ones.
Come on the dealers, what do you say.
H.

I seriously doubt that any dealers will comment here.
But its also unsafe to condemn an organisation based on just one example where a non safety critical problem arose . It cold be a different matter regarding a gas leak. But even then it can be like a light bulb, which is fine when tested, but the next time you turn it on it blows. The test result is accurate. Perhaps the gas leak was the result of towing movements or something beyond the dealers control.

 

[Hutch]

That true Prof, but when you buy a caravan, you would expect things to be correct, the dealears are the first to go around with a damp meter and claim another £200/£500 from your exchange. So you should have a 100% good caravan when buying, yes the gas problem on my old van could be vibration, luckily as I am an Engineer I can rectifiey most things that happen. But others are not so lucky and have to call in agents to rectify.
Newbies, dont be put off, its all good fun.

 

[Dustydog]

I said last year I will never use my main dealer again .
I used them for nigh on twenty years.
Wind back four years the Truma heater kept cutting out leaving us freezing unless we went to gas .
Year before last I told them to fix it and if need be fit an entire new unit.
We went away in the winter.
Guess what. Didn't work.
I found a qualified mobile guy.
He fixed it. Parts £10.
Labour £100.
The whole unit had to come out.
Two weeks ago he spent four hours on the annual service and the spent time explaining what he had done and some "caution" pointers.
I've booked for next year.
BUT he is coming back for in May to retest some of the damp areas.
One by the front n/s/f windows 20%.
Two By the fridge vents 30%.
One by the kitchen windows 20%.
No signs internally but at least he's on the case.

 

[Hutch]

DD, at least he explaines what and where the problems are, and you can talk things through.
Lets talk about it in the BB,in September,

 

[Raywood]

Good to know someone has enough sense to have a sixteen year old caravan serviced. Many people think it is not worth it at that age but it is there safety that is at stake.

 

[crazyguider]

We have a Dart 2004 556/6. It had always been serviced, and we still have it done. Although OH is good at all thingd dit, it just is reassuring to know that its been checked out properly. We have minor damp problems, and the gas heater/fridge won't work, but thats what leccy is for!

 

[Trevormc]

What about a 22 year old caravan being serviced.
Yes every year.
I had problems with a dealer servicing this van, so found a engineer that comes to your house to service it, it was this chap that found that faults on the van had not been done by the dealer that we had used the years before. Only problem is aranging a date for the service he's very busy.

Trevor

 

[chrisn7]

I have no idea about this, but wouldn't a dealer have a professional duty of care to its customers to check safety critical items like tyres, the hitch, gas and electricity? The faulty electrics above could have caused a death when the the dealer could be facing all sorts of issues.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have no idea about this, but wouldn't a dealer have a professional duty of care to its customers to check safety critical items like tyres, the hitch, gas and electricity? The faulty electrics above could have caused a death when the the dealer could be facing all sorts of issues.

Hello Chrisn,

Whenever you employ a 'specialist' you have a right to expect then to use their professional expertise to protect your interests, after all that why you employ them. If a professional spots a dangerous issue they should report the issue to the responsible person.

Now in reality if you book a service it does not usually include services on individual appliances If you book at a main dealership, its likely they may put one of their junior operatives on the job, and they may not have the breadth of knowledge or qualifications to spot problems on individual appliances.Don't forget that a fault may exist that doesn't necessarily mean its dangerous, so their may be no reason in the eyes of the techi to report it.

By comparison the mobile techie, will have the wider knowledge and may spot things others may miss. There is also the possibility the mobile techie maybe looking to maximise their earning potential by pointing out even minor issues.

With regards liability for unreported faults, that would depend on the nature of the fault AND the work the dealer was employed to carry out. It would be unreasonable for a dealer to held responsible for fault on a system they would have no reason to interact with as part of the work they are carrying out.

 

[Damian]

Quote" .Don't forget that a fault may exist that doesn't necessarily mean its dangerous, so their may be no reason in the eyes of the techi to report it."

I have to disagree the above.
During a service every system must be tested and faults recorded, with certain faults requiring immediate rectification and others explaining to the customer and a course of action agreed between both parties.
It is NOT acceptable not to report a fault.

As far as missing electrical earth connections they should have been investigated AND FIXED before the van was allowed out again.
If a missing connection on any of the 230v system is missed, then one must wonder what the rest of the service missed.

Mobile engineers in the Approved Workshop scheme MUST be fully qualified in all caravan systems, gas, electrics 230v and 12v, etc etc and unlike a dealership (who are mainly only interested in selling vans) he has his reputation to think of.

During my time as a mobile engineer I regularly noted advisory items which would need attention at some point in the next 12 months and usually agreed a time scale to carry out whatever needed doing.
Gas and Electric faults were always immediate rectification items which the van owner had no choice whether or not they were fixed. They are potentially life threatening items.

 

[Dustydog]

Well said Damian
My earlier post echoes exactly your point .Precisely what I experienced with my approved mobile chap..

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Damain

I totally agree about actual dangerous faults being missed, that is unacceptable, but there are many non dangerous issues where its a matter of personal judgment whether to report or not. That level judgement will be modified by the techies experience, and to a seasoned professional some point may be seen as more significant and reported which may not be picked up by the less experienced person.

For example, its not uncommon to find slight discolouration of the external grille and paintwork above the an exhaust grill. It is a normal feature that hot gasses may affect the materials over time. But it can also happen if there is a problem with the appliances burner . How do you gauge is it normal or is it abnormal? Its open to interpretation and some might report and others may not. Its not always black and white.

I do reiterate that the extent of any testing or inspection may be limited by the work that has been contracted. For example you were contracted to look at the towing electrics on a caravan, would you carry out a gas soundness and a mains electrical safety check automatically? If you didn't and a subsequent fault or incident arrises you could not be held liable as you had no contact with the system, However if you did do a safety test and the incident arrises, then you may be deemed to some liability as you had interacted with the system.

 

[Damian]

Quote " For example, its not uncommon to find slight discolouration of the external grille and paintwork above the an exhaust grill. It is a normal feature that hot gasses may affect the materials over time. But it can also happen if there is a problem with the appliances burner . How do you gauge is it normal or is it abnormal? Its open to interpretation and some might report and others may not. Its not always black and white."

Not a good example to use am afraid.

It is so very simple to know if a gas burners operating correctly with the use of a flue gas analyser, which will tell the operator exactly how good or bad the burner is, including amounts of CO, CO2, and their ratio as well as flue gas temperature.
The only reason dealers do not use a gas analyser is the cost of the unit, annual recalibration and required training, and that the NCC do not insist on flue gas analysis being done, they prefer to ignore what is a much more important testing regime than other areas.

The whole topic is about servicing, and it is the duty of any service engineer to report ANY fault, no matter what, that is what the customer is paying for.

Of course if undertaking a specific job such as fault finding the van running lights one would not expect to have other systems tested at that time.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Damian,

I quite agree a service should point out "ANY fault" but does that include all faults? and if not where do you draw the line? And is the line you draw the same as everyone else's?

Returning to the example I gave (which in my professional opinion is a good one) as you point out there is a relatively easy way to check if a burner is operating correctly by analysing the exhaust gasses, But you also make the point that not all service providers will have an analyser, so it is perfectly possible for a service techie to perform a successful gas soundness test, and then to perform a functional test, and yet they could miss a combustion fault - which could just be a partially blocked venturi tube which reduces the cleanliness of combustion but does not produce visible indications. Technically the product is faulty by not having the correct combustion, yet to all intents and purposes it functions normally and safely.

So one techie may report no faults found, yet another would report the combustion issue. And neither of them would report it as an issue if there were only contracted to work on an unrelated system.

I suspect if you were working on an unrelated system, and you noticed soot deposits on the grill or wall above it you would report it to the owner, but would all other techies be as vigilant as you are?

 

[Dustydog]

Here we go again Finitely splitting hairs at the expense of the "not so well informed".
It is a very sad and indeed very wrong day to suggest on here there are life crucial items that can / will be missed during servicing.
The Line? What line?
As far as safety is concerned there is no line.
Sorry guys but I can understand why Lord B and others left this forum.
For the sake of us mere mortals can we remember KISS.
Keep It Simple Stupid!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Here we go again Finitely splitting hairs at the expense of the "not so well informed".
It is a very sad and indeed very wrong day to suggest on here there are life crucial items that can / will be missed during servicing.
The Line? What line?
As far as safety is concerned there is no line.
Sorry guys but I can understand why Lord B and others left this forum.
For the sake of us mere mortals can we remember KISS.
Keep It Simple Stupid!

I'm sorry Dusty,

But I feel you are twisting my words and intention.

I have been at pains to stress the issues where there may be some interpretation of the need to report are not safety or "life crucial items that can / will be missed during servicing.".

 

[chrisn7]

Oh dear, all this after 'my duty of care' post. I can see where both Prof and Damian are coming from. If I take my own car to my independent garage, he would, knowing me and the annual mileage of the car, perhaps say that the brake pads will need changing at the next service. If take my daughters car into the main dealer under the same circumstances they would say it needs new pads now. The former makes an informed judment, the latter takes an absolute approach. Both are valid and safe,but one costs me sooner rather than later.