For Nigel.

[HenryS]

I have just been reading Claudia's piece in Februarys P.C. Magazine regarding your Mondeo Estate getting fidgety after 10,000 miles. Apparently after filling the tyres with nitrogen and checking the wheel alignment, which was spot on, the problem was cured.
A couple of things strike me. As the alignment was Spot On, obviously this had no relevance to the car being fidgety, which would suggest introducing nitrogen did the trick. After filling with nitrogen, it is stated that checking the tyres once a year is adequate. As one of those who increases the tyre pressures a few P.S.I. before towing and lets them down again on arrival at a site, I am going to end up with tyres containing an air/nitrogen mixture.
No doubt I will be bombarded with comment from those who drive 4X4 Sherman tanks who will say they don't need the few extra P.S.I. when towing, however, I would suggest the majority of us do. I have to say that this is the first I have heard of filling tyres with nitrogen, although I am a regular reader of the motoring press and caravan magazines.
I wonder if the Towcar Editor has any comment on the subject, and will the CC be editing their comments on Tyres and Rims in their Technical Information Chapter.
One last thought. When did the Mondeo get fidgety, as I assume it was OK when new. Methinks there may have been more involved than N2.
Henry Steele.

 

[mcghee]

sorry to butt in henry. the process of filling tyres with nitrogen is not a new one. it's been done for years. nitrogen being an inert gas it is not susceptible to radical pressure changes with temperature, and since it contains no water, as compressed air does, it has no detremental effect on the internal wheel rim. wheels corroding from the inside due to moisture content in the compressed air is one of the main causes of rim seal failure causing the tyre to slowly deflate over a few days or weeks.

as you say, if you inflate and deflate your tyres regularly there is no point in paying £1 a tyre for nitrogen inflation, since you will obviate the benefits the first time you introduce air into them.

i haven't read the article myself but it surely doesn't suggest only checking tyre pressures annually?

 

[HenryS]

Thanks mcghee, I stand corrected over nitrogen filled tyres, however, the article certainly does say that checking the pressure of nitrogen filled tyres once a year is enough. Perhaps you will get an opportunity to read the article. I await a comment from Nigel. Henry Steele.

 

[HenryS]

mcghee, it's me again. The Mondeo's tyres were filled at ATS Euromaster's branch in Twickenham. I quote from the article." ATS's Andy Inman, who was looking after the Mondeo, rang the firm's trial centre in Horsham to find out how frequently pressures should be checked. Once a year was the reply. Impressive, Claudia says. Henry.

 

[Heethers]

As one of the 4x4 sherman tank drivers l can assure you l increase the tyre pressure as per Mitsubishi’s hand book before towing, can't understand for the life of me why in your post you have a go at the 4x4 fraternity, last time l looked l thought resided in country that allows you to choose your mode of transport, if l wanted a mondeo l would buy one, l quite like them but for me living in the sticks, no contest 4x4 every time, just ask the wife who had to visit her patients in the bad weather and l may add me subsidising the national health hasd all she gets is 15 pence mile for own car. Whinge over.
NigelH

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

As one of the 4x4 sherman tank drivers

Most of the cheap jibes have nothing to do with global warming or CO2 emissions. Just put it down to jealousy or the fact they aren't confident enough to drive a larger vehicle

 

[HenryS]

Gentlemen. Don't get overheated, its not worth it. NigelH, nowhere did I suggest that you do not, or should not have a choice of what type of velicle to buy. If a 4x4 ticks the boxes for you, that's fine by me. I was merely commenting on an article about filling car tyres with nitrogen, and checking tyre pressures once a year. Now if the article had mentioned filling the van tyres with nitrogen and that checking them at the annual service was OK, that would be worth food for thought.. Henry.

 

[mcghee]

i don't think henry's initial comment was offensive, or intended as a jibe. i myself tow with a large 4x4 and never increase the tyre pressures for towing. the car has the tyre pressures set for carrying a family of five all the time and the pressure increase required for 100 kilos or so of nose weight is not worth worrying about. i think henry was pointing out that there are plenty who, like me, don't continually alter tyre pressures and suffer no ill effects, but there are also plenty others who, like him, do get results by increasing pressure for towing.

i am a bit concerned about anyone recommending checking tyre pressures annually. nitrogen inflation reduces seepage, but does not eliminate it. nor does it eliminate dodgy valves, dodgy valve seating, poor rim fitting, or slow punctures caused by foreign objects. i'd hate to think any number of the population were cruising around on soft tyres because their highly trained ats fitter had told them their tyres would be sorted for a year.

i have now read the article, which appears to be a bit of a non story, since it doesn't actually tell us what the problem with car actually was, unless claudia's been driving around with flat tyres recently.

 

[HenryS]

Thanks mcghee. I notice comments from anyone at PC magzine are a bit thin on the ground. We will see what the weekend brings.
Henry.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I'm sorry but if it wasn't meant to be a jibe why not just say 4x4 drivers instead of ...
'No doubt I will be bombarded with comment from those who drive 4X4 Sherman tanks who will say they don't need the few extra P.S.I. when towing'.
Even the comment 'no doubt I will be bombarded' is inferring that those who drive a 4x4 think they are superior.
It really was a comment that needn't have been made to get your point across.

 

[Gagakev]

Just to add my two penneth, changed the two rear tyres on my 4x4 last April and was offered the Nitrogen filling for £3.00 per tyre but was also offered FREE checks when I was passing every 12 weeks or so, but when I said I towed a caravan on a regular basis and alter tyre pressure each time they said air would be better!!!!
The point really, is that they recommended a 3 monthly check as opposed to the yearly one you talk about .

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Mcghee,

In your post of Thu, 06/01/2011 - 8:55pm, you state

"nitrogen being an inert gas it is not susceptible to radical pressure changes with temperature"

I have to disagree with you, just as with any other gas held in a constant volume, changing its temperature will affect its pressure.

The inert aspect of the gas only means it less reactive with other materials, and thus in a tyre the internal surfaces will not oxidise as no oxygen is present. Consequently tyres any not degrade as quickly from the inside, but the external wear and tear will be no different.

Any water content in compressed are will not affect tyre pressure unless the temperatures inside the tyre exceed the boiling point at the raised air pressure.

The moisture content may begin to cause the inner surface of the rim to begin to corrode.

A tyre or rim that has been inflated by air may have been compromised so subsequent filling with nitrogen will not improve its performance over that of air.

 

[HenryS]

Lord B. As I have clearly ruffled the feathers of the 4x4 Brigade, I shall refrain from commenting any further on this forum. The original topic was posted generate some sensible discussion. It obviously failed .Henry.

 

[Damian]

Quote " The original topic was posted generate some sensible discussion"
As I see it, the original topic from the article was about a Mondeo.
You introduced the subject matter of 4x4's, which was totally irrelevant to the original article, and was not needed to make the point about Nitrogen filled tyres.

Now, having had that pointed out to you, you take the stance that because you have "ruffled a few feathers", you will no longer comment on this forum.
I think that is the right decision before the topic descends into the usual ridiculous 4x4 bashing that normally follows.
However, that will not happen as the topic will be locked down if it does.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

naughty naughty henry you know full well not to mention the F* word on here.
but then @ £1.37p a litre who really carers??

intresting thought, though if I get the van tyres filled with nitro on the next tyre change I could carry the carp rods in the van as the MIRO would be reduced cos it weighs less than air (or was that hydrogen

) ah never mind.

by the way prof that was a joke.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Lord B. As I have clearly ruffled the feathers of the 4x4 Brigade, I shall refrain from commenting any further on this forum. The original topic was posted generate some sensible discussion. It obviously failed .Henry.

I'm sorry if you took offence at my reply Henry but my original post was made as a joke regarding bigger vehicles hence the smiley. You certainly didn't ruffle my feathers and you are entitled to your own opinions. I was simply pointing out that there was no need to make that comment because your post was of an interest to us all.
As Damian said, past 4x4 debates have been stupid and it seemed that most topics would turn into a 4x4 war zone before long.
Please don't be offended because it wasn't my intention

 

[Surfer]

I never bothered with tyres pressures on my 4 x 4 as I towed a twin axle. If your noseweight is correct I don't see the necessity to keep inflating and deflating tyres unless on a very long run.

 

[HenryS]

No offence taken Lord B. In my original comment, I certainly did not intend to start a world war on 4x4's. Can we start again with the original post and delete the sentence about Sherman tanks. I'd still like to see some comments about nitrogen filled tyres and this remark about testing the pressures annually. As one who has had his three score and ten plus a handful and who does it frequently, once a year seems a long time and I would be concerned if the were not checked more often. I suppose I was hoping PC Magazine editorial team would expand on the article. Henry.

 

[otherclive]

Since air comprises 80% (approx) nitrogen and the universal gas laws apply to air, or nitrogen I cannot see the advantages in filling with pure nitrogen. Is rim corrosion such an issue, I think not. Surely if the air contains moisture and it was a concern it would be just as good to have pre-dried compressed air using an in-line dryer unit. I have a 4x4 (for another 10 days) and have not needed to adjust tyre pressures for solo or towing, but I do check them weekly and reset to 35psi when required. The reset is mostly caused by changes in ambient air temperature. Recently I was checking my wifes car and the normal 34psi had dropped to around 29psi due to the extreme cold, so as we were going on a long trip I pumped them back to 34psi, and now the weather is around 7 deg C I have taken air out. Having ridden motor bikes I use the old adage 'look after your tyres and they will look after you'.

Cheers

 

[NigelHutson]

"I never bothered with tyres pressures on my 4 x 4 as I towed a twin axle. If your noseweight is correct I don't see the necessity to keep inflating and deflating tyres unless on a very long run."

What you tow or tow with is not really the point. Do what the Manufacturers' handbook says. I used to have a Rover 75 estate on which the tyre pressures were the same whether fully laden or not. My current (large) 4X4 states that the tyres should be inflated to the "full load", an increase of 6 psi at the rear.

 

[mcghee]

john, you may be right about the pressure of nitrogen filled tyres varying with temperature. i don't know the specifics, i'm just quoting from memory an automtive engineer friend from my racing days. i believe that the pressure difference according to temperature may me less, but i don't know.

"is rim corrosion that much of an issue?" ask all the owners of alloys (particularly italian alloys) which are unlaquered on the inside how often they have to reinflate their tyres. i'll bet every week.