For those who think Hydrogen is the way forwards with Cars.

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Peter day

Jul 21, 2021
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otherclive

otherclive

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It reminds me of a trial I arranged to overpressure to destruction a 3000 psi submarines air cylinder. It shattered and scatters shrapnel everywhere including an Army non magnetic range. The air pressure blast was sufficient to knock over a steel sentry box guarding the range perimeter. The occupant was a mite shaken. But the trial proved our calculations on the ratio of working to failure pressures.

Your link tells me it’s a malformed illegal request. But I don’t expect anything new from HSE re hydrogen. It’s been around a long while and premises in the NW are currently trialling a mix of natural gas and hydrogen fir heating.
 
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ProfJohnL

ProfJohnL

Mar 14, 2005
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Peter day said:
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This is a 200 bar Steel cylinder filled with air, that can survive 300C, Hydrogen cylinders proposed for cars would be 700Bar filled with Hydrogen that would catch fire suddenly easily, imagine 20l of petrol being sprayed over a flame over a 5 second period..

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Yet another ill informed posting designed to scaremonger by this OP.

There is no question that Hydrogen is highly inflammable, and it it were released en masse it would indeed be potentially lethal, but to even suggest that Hydrogen containment systems would be flimsy enough to fail catastrophically with little force is naive in the extreme.

The systems designed for fitting into cars would have to meet very stringent safety measures that would ensure they were very robust indeed.

The comparison with petrol is also very naive, Petrol is a liquid at normal temperatures, and even as a vapour it is still heavier than air so it will tend to collect at the lowest available point and pool. If it were to be set alight it will continue to burn for a relatively long time as the liquid will continue to vapourise and feed the flames until it has all be consumed. the same pooling issue arises for LPG which its wise not use LPG in areas that might retain any split vapour.

Safety is of course a concern, but If you consider that today, petrol is only contained in very flimsy plastic tanks, and LPG in pressure vessels, yet how many incidents of spilt petrol or LPG are there?

By comparison Hydrogen is the lightest gas we know of and it will quickly disperse into the atmosphere, and not collect like petrol would.

Don't be taken in by the continued misinformation the OP seems intent on spreading.
 
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Ern

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A large investment by Toyota into Hydrogen powered cars has recently been announced to the media. Now, this may just be old grandma hedging her bets"
but I doubt it because the kind of money they must have invested could not be justified unless it was economically sound. You can be sure that Toyota have been working on this for a good while and wouldn't release it until they were pretty sure of its future. I have mentioned before that Linde Gas have been running Hydrogen powered Opel cars for a while, and have experience building and selling Hydrogen production plants. I think we will see Hydrogen as an alternative to Batteries.
 
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Parksy

Parksy

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Hydrogen fuelled vehicles have been around in small numbers since 2014.
Second generation versions are now being introduced and there are hydrogen filling stations inside the M25, with plans for more.
Manufacturers state that a hydrogen fuel cell is 5 times less likely to suffer catastrophic damage than the normal steel fuel tank which is fitted to millions of conventional vehicles worldwide in the event of a crash.
 
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otherclive

otherclive

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Parksy said:
Hydrogen fuelled vehicles have been around in small numbers since 2014.
Second generation versions are now being introduced and there are hydrogen filling stations inside the M25, with plans for more.
Manufacturers state that a hydrogen fuel cell is 5 times less likely to suffer catastrophic damage than the normal steel fuel tank which is fitted to millions of conventional vehicles worldwide in the event of a crash.
Click to expand...
Ballard in Canada we’re running hydrogen vehicles in the mid 1980s. I witnessed a hydride fuel tank being penetrated by a bullet. Just a whiff of combustion then nothing. Hydrides adsorb the hydrogen like a sponge.
 
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otherclive

otherclive

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Hutch

Hutch

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The Hidenburg, fire was caused by static electricity, catching fire to vented Hydrogen, which caught fire to the fuesalage covering, and in 16 seconds the complete airship was consumed, but the diesel fuel for the engines burned for more than three to 4 hours afterwards.
Unfortunatley the whole incident was caused by Pilot error on his docking to the landing post.
 
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CustardAvenger

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Lets not forget that Hydrogen cars are Electric Cars; they just store their fuel as a liquid which then, via the fuel cell, generates electricity; when you compare the availability of Hydrogen filling stations to pure EV recharging points (potentially anywhere with a connection to the power grid and every home with a driveway) a battery EV makes more sense at this point in time. Even James May concedes there are like 2 operational stations right now and there one near his home, so the Toyota Mirai mk2 isn't his only car!

Where hydrogen could excel now is in remote site power generation; a video on power generation at Goodwood festival (IIRC) for vendors and site facilities resulted in lower local emissions as petrol/diesel generators were not used . The hydrogen was brought to the generator via diesel truck, but this was a proof of concept. Also HGVs could benefit from using hydrogen as they wouldn't need huge battery packs and hydrogen aircraft are being designed as the battery weight limits size/range, so only small inter-city E-Aircraft are viable with the current technology.
 
otherclive

otherclive

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CustardAvenger said:
Lets not forget that Hydrogen cars are Electric Cars; they just store their fuel as a liquid which then, via the fuel cell, generates electricity; when you compare the availability of Hydrogen filling stations to pure EV recharging points (potentially anywhere with a connection to the power grid and every home with a driveway) a battery EV makes more sense at this point in time. Even James May concedes there are like 2 operational stations right now and there one near his home, so the Toyota Mirai mk2 isn't his only car!

Where hydrogen could excel now is in remote site power generation; a video on power generation at Goodwood festival (IIRC) for vendors and site facilities resulted in lower local emissions as petrol/diesel generators were not used . The hydrogen was brought to the generator via diesel truck, but this was a proof of concept. Also HGVs could benefit from using hydrogen as they wouldn't need huge battery packs and hydrogen aircraft are being designed as the battery weight limits size/range, so only small inter-city E-Aircraft are viable with the current technology.
Click to expand...
ZeroAvia based at Kemble are working to obtain an airworthiness certificate for a 19 seat Dornier using hydrogen. There are currently trials in the NW looking at mixing hydrogen with natural gas for domestic supplies. For the trials domestic properties are supplied a weak hydrogen - gas mixture which will become richer as the trials progress.
Probably the biggest initiative for hydrogen is on Humberside which is Britain’s biggest CO2 emission zone. Natural gas piped from Norway is to be used for Blue hydrogen manufacture and the resultant carbon dioxide captured for undersea storage. Also the intent is to produce White/Green hydrogen by electrolysis which doesn’t produce carbon dioxide.

The two links may be of interest. I find it a bit disappointing that information on such initiatives isn’t more widely disseminated. As too many people seem to associate dealing with climate change as just a few tweaks to lifestyle and it will be alright.

https://www.zeroavia.com/19-seater-release

https://www.zerocarbonhumber.co.uk/
 
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ProfJohnL

ProfJohnL

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otherclive said:
.... There are currently trials in the NW looking at mixing hydrogen with natural gas for domestic supplies. For the trials domestic properties are supplied a weak hydrogen - gas mixture which will become richer as the trials progress.
...
Click to expand...

Remember the days of town gas? - derived from coal, and was basically hydrogen. So we might end up with the great gas reconversion.
 
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Ern

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Over population is the real issue isn't it? More people require more food and energy. Weak nations are becoming wealthy and their population wants what the rest of us have got. Gratuitous use of energy by people (many in public positions spending other peoples money) has become the norm. It's all got to be curbed.
 
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Ern

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BBC News this morning covering the latest UK Hydrogen industry investment. It seems to have become a popular subject suddenly.
 
ProfJohnL

ProfJohnL

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