Ford Kuga towing a Bailey Indiana

Feb 25, 2018
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Completely confused by all the towing weight calculation stuff, but one site says my car is too light to tow the Indiana, but I thought it was ok?

Kuga is a 2.0 TDCi 150BHP Titanium X 2WD 5 door which I believe has a Gross weight of 2250, and a gross train mass of 4150 which (I think) says I can tow up to 1900kg

The bailey has a MTPLM of 1500 (I've no idea what that means) so, please, are we ok, or do I need a heavier car (and if I do, recommendations, please!!)

Thanks in advance!
Confused, of Leics
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Car makers specify the maximum towing capability of a car by its success in doing a number of hill starts on a specified incline. It generally over specifies the vehicles actual ability to tow a caravan which by their size and weight can be more sensitive to things like wind, road undulations, heavy or fast vehicle turbulence, driver actions and loading. They are not like driving a low trailer with a biat. Oneguide is that for inexperienced tow car drivers the caravan should be around 85% of the cars kerbweight. You haven’t stated your kerbweight.
MPTLM is Maximum Permissible Technical laden Mass which is the max weight of the caravan when loaded and is specified by the caravan maker.
Look at the two Club websites as they have lots of technical information sheets accessible to all.

Does what licence do you hold. As this will affect your legal ability to drive a heavier outfit. Ie car and caravan combined.

The Kuga is known as a good tow car and with the 2 litre 150 bhp diesel it should have adequate power and torque. But you need to look at kerbweight to see what sort of match it would be to the Indiana. You don’t have to load a caravan to it’s MTPLM but do be aware that it is surprising how quickly payload is used up in the multitude of things that are required. Lastly I would recommend that you sign up for one of the courses run by the Clubs. They give lots of useful information on the dos and fonts of caravanning. Invaluable.
 
Feb 25, 2018
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Thanks Clive. I'm not inexperienced at towing (5 years with a folding camper) just with a caravan, and my licence is valid.

Google tells me the kerb weight of mine is 1647 and that 85% of that is 1400 and that the towing capacity id 1900.

Am I still too light??
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Rhys1962 said:
Thanks Clive. I'm not inexperienced at towing (5 years with a folding camper) just with a caravan, and my licence is valid.

Google tells me the kerb weight of mine is 1647 and that 85% of that is 1400 and that the towing capacity id 1900.

Am I still too light??

If the 1647 kg is correct that would put you at 91%. The 85% is a guide and has been featured now fir many years. In which time car suspension and stability aids have been introduced. My ethos is to keep the car loaded and the van light.
At 91% you should be alright. But I would check around on kerbweight as it’s not uncommon to find several different figures ostensibly for. the same car. One matching site that I’ve used now for three outfits is Towcar.info. Worth having a look at that one as your outfit comprises a well known car and van. Also check your V5 for Mass in Service that’s not too far off kerbweight. Some companies quote kerbweight with a 75 kg driver others don’t. So it’s not an exact figure. You could plonk the car and you on a public weighbrudge.

So many things affect stability other than the ratio of kerbweight to caravan weight. At 91% if confirmed yours wouldn’t be an unreasonable match. If you were cautious in your first outings by keeping the caravan below MTPLM, loaded it in accordance with guidance, ensured your noseweight was correct and it felt okay then you could extend the envelope. I’d always advise having your fully loaded outfit weighed. You will be amazed at how the weights of your kit ads up. I weigh everything that goes into the caravan and keep a spreadsheet for different types of trips. But even then I find things that have crept in and have to have a clear out. One word of advise make sure that your wife knows that taking 6 litres of milk in the fridge is 6kg+ and twenty coke cans beggars belief. There are shops all around UK and Europe. Use them :)
 
Feb 25, 2018
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Clive

Many thanks - I've checked that site, selected the right car and it tells me it's a pretty good match (phew) but your point about keeping the van light and loading the car is a valid one and one that I shall ensure Mrs R1962 is aware of!
 
Oct 12, 2013
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Hi rhys,
You should be fine with your outfit as ours tow's no bother and we are the same car , minus the titanium spec , i thought all titanium specs were AWD anyway ?
 
Feb 25, 2018
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Hi Craig - clearly not! Thanks for the reply though. I've just managed to do a deal on a trade in, so will be the proud owner of a new one soon!
Just need to get a towbar sorted for it, as the one on mine can't be transferred, which is a bit of a ******.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Just a word of caution concerning matching services. Clive has already alluded to the fact that sometime different sites seem to have different weights for a particular car. This will naturally affect their output and recommendations.

It is highly likely that all matching services do have errors in their databases, and the problem is you don't know if your car or caravan might be misquoted. So it is important to check the details they have for your car. DO NOT assume that a similar model will be close enough, the details must reflect your exact car. It has been know that a different trim level can alter towing values, and certainly body types can.

Its not particularly difficult to work out Towing ratio is simply the caravans MTPLM divided by the tow vehicles kerb weight all multiplied by 100. Industry guidance suggest this should be less than 85% and power to weight ratio is equally simple Tow vehicle maximum power output divided by Cars MAM + Trailers MTPLM. and here I would suggest for petrol it should be 40bhp per tonne or more and for turbo diesels 35bhp per tonne or more
None of these figures are statutory.
 
Feb 23, 2018
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ProfJohnL said:
Just a word of caution concerning matching services. Clive has already alluded to the fact that sometime different sites seem to have different weights for a particular car. This will naturally affect their output and recommendations..

The kerb weight for my car was printed on the V5 (1905kg It was also on one of the matching sites) I guess this would be the best source for accurate or legal info. The gross weight was on a plate affixed to the car (2505kg) as was the Towing limit (2000KG braked).

(For interest the plated MTPLM of my caravan is 1437kg - 1437kg/1905kg x 100 = 75.43% match.)

otherclive said:
So many things affect stability other than the ratio of kerbweight to caravan weight. At 91% if confirmed yours wouldn’t be an unreasonable match. If you were cautious in your first outings by keeping the caravan below MTPLM, loaded it in accordance with guidance, ensured your noseweight was correct and it felt okay then you could extend the envelope. I’d always advise having your fully loaded outfit weighed. You will be amazed at how the weights of your kit ads up. I weigh everything that goes into the caravan and keep a spreadsheet for different types of trips. But even then I find things that have crept in and have to have a clear out....

I have also made a spreadsheet of every item that lives in the caravan and its weight, this does become a slight obsession, but does serve to highlight how quickly payload is used up even with the items included in the Mass in Running Order.
 
Oct 12, 2013
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Rhys1962 said:
..... I've just managed to do a deal on a trade in, so will be the proud owner of a new one soon!
Just need to get a towbar sorted for it, as the one on mine can't be transferred, which is a bit of a ******.

Are you changing it because you think the one you have is not suitable for the caravan as all said it will be ok?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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CustardAvenger said:
....The kerb weight for my car was printed on the V5 (1905kg It was also on one of the matching sites) I guess this would be the best source for accurate or legal info. The gross weight was on a plate affixed to the car (2505kg) as was the Towing limit (2000KG braked).

(For interest the plated MTPLM of my caravan is 1437kg - 1437kg/1905kg x 100 = 75.43% match.)

Hello Custard Avenger
As far as I know ( and I have checked my own V5C documents) "Kerbweight is not given any space on the document. The nearest category is Y - Revenue Weight, otherwise G - Mass In Service.

I don't understand why you have quoted your figures out of the blue. Unless you have the same outfit as Rhys (Which you do not tell us) , it has little relevance to Rhys.

But well done for having such a low towing ratio.
 
Feb 23, 2018
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ProfJohnL said:
CustardAvenger said:
....The kerb weight for my car was printed on the V5 (1905kg It was also on one of the matching sites) I guess this would be the best source for accurate or legal info. The gross weight was on a plate affixed to the car (2505kg) as was the Towing limit (2000KG braked).

(For interest the plated MTPLM of my caravan is 1437kg - 1437kg/1905kg x 100 = 75.43% match.)

Hello Custard Avenger
As far as I know ( and I have checked my own V5C documents) "Kerbweight is not given any space on the document. The nearest category is Y - Revenue Weight, otherwise G - Mass In Service.

I don't understand why you have quoted your figures out of the blue. Unless you have the same outfit as Rhys (Which you do not tell us) , it has little relevance to Rhys.

But well done for having such a low towing ratio.

Hi Prof... my outfit is in my signature and my profile pic so not the same. The figures were quoted for example as there seemed to be some confusion in earlier posts on the towing ratio.

You are probably right on the exact description as I have not checked my V5 recently. But there was no official definative info avaliable to me on the car's kerb weight from Volvo. I think the manual refers you to the V5 for this info. So in leiu of anything else I have had to take this as gospel.

But the car came first... the caravan was picked with an MTPLM to suit!
 
Feb 25, 2018
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HI Craig
It was more a case of feeling the car was slightly underpowered as a 2 wheel drive 150bhp, so was going to upgrade anyway, but the nagging doubt over whether it was or wasn't depending on where you look for info sort of pushed me into the change now rather than waiting until next year.

Lucky to be in a position to be able to do that, I know!
 
Oct 12, 2013
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Hi rhys ,
Ours is the 2 litre TDi 150 2 wheel drive like yours and our van which is 8 metres is equipped for the four of us when we go to touring , I do not find it underpowered at all .
But enjoy .

Craig .
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Rhys1962 said:
HI Craig
It was more a case of feeling the car was slightly underpowered as a 2 wheel drive 150bhp, so was going to upgrade anyway, but the nagging doubt over whether it was or wasn't depending on where you look for info sort of pushed me into the change now rather than waiting until next year.

Lucky to be in a position to be able to do that, I know!

It’s the torque of a diesel that gives good towing power. A 2.0 litre turbo diesel putting out 150 bhp and whatever torque would have no problem with that caravan. I had a 2.0 petrol non turbo Forester at 150 bhp and whilst Subaru rated it at 2000 kg it’s real world ability was poor even at 1300 kg which was also revealed in the Towcar of the Year tests. And it’s mot just the engine power and torque it’s the cars gearing too my Land Rover Disco 2 and Sorento both only had 138bhp but they would pull heavy caravans without any trouble.
Anyway good luck with the new car, they are nice.
 
Oct 12, 2013
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Even though it's only 2 wheel drive it has a lot of power under the hood, I sometimes wish it was all wheel drive but that was extra pennies i didn't have at the time ! And even less since getting the new van but what we have is for the next 1o years hopfully !!
 
May 7, 2012
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ProfJohnL said:
CustardAvenger said:
....The kerb weight for my car was printed on the V5 (1905kg It was also on one of the matching sites) I guess this would be the best source for accurate or legal info. The gross weight was on a plate affixed to the car (2505kg) as was the Towing limit (2000KG braked).

(For interest the plated MTPLM of my caravan is 1437kg - 1437kg/1905kg x 100 = 75.43% match.)

Hello Custard Avenger
As far as I know ( and I have checked my own V5C documents) "Kerbweight is not given any space on the document. The nearest category is Y - Revenue Weight, otherwise G - Mass In Service.

I don't understand why you have quoted your figures out of the blue. Unless you have the same outfit as Rhys (Which you do not tell us) , it has little relevance to Rhys.

But well done for having such a low towing ratio.

Getting the kerb weight right is a problem. The figure on the V5C is going to be the car with oil and water and a 90% full fuel tank. For the kerb weight you would normally add 75KG for the driver. The figure given though is not that specific car, but one for the model, and can vary from car to car, so the only sure way to get it right is to weigh the car, and from what I have seen most cars are heavier than the stated figure.
 
Feb 23, 2018
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Craigyoung said:
It ranges from 24o - 4oo Nm obviously depending on the spec that you have.

I think this circles back to the kerb weight issue... 2wd Xc60 in with a 'D4' engine is 2.0l 181bhp & 400Nm... choose the D4 AWD option and your bhp stays the same, torque goes up to 420Nm but you also have an extra cylinder and 2.4l as the D4 AWD is a de-tuned D5 (previously badged 2.4D) No wonder it's hard to get accurate info without getting on a weigh bridge.
 

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