Forum. Question Time

Jan 9, 2008
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For many of us a caravan is a large purchase. Next to home and car it is probably the most expensive item many people buy.

I've had a post removed as it seems I have challenged a caravan manufacturer who posts here.

Manufacturers post on forums to gain advertising, market awareness, share and profit. To believe anything else is being rather naive.

Our Moderator has posted "Users of the forum were advised right at the start of manufacturers postings that personal likes and dislikes will NOT be aired on the forum" This I was not aware of, and I can't understand the reasoning behind that.

Why do manufacturers get to sing their own praises, market their customer support and open days that will obviously be overly geared to showing care and dedication put in to their product build.

The manufacturer can do that, but as the paying customer we are not allowed to say that the products are and have not always been up to the standard they would like us to have and that customer support from the factory and dealers is or has been far from helpful or perfect.

Manufacturers if they are allowed to post should just post a contact number for their customer support and then treat all customers be they internet users or just dealer clients desperate for help in the same caring way.

I cannot understand how a caravan magazine forum can deny forum users the right to express comment on the products they have paid for if they have failed to deliver. Yet manufacturers are left to blatantly promote their wares and customer services that I and no doubt many others have had good reason to question and often on numerous occasions.

When there are no more questions posted on forums about caravan reliability, build quality or lack of customer service the manufacturers will at last be doing the good job we expected when we handed over the cash.

May be Editor Nigel could explain rather than leave the Mods to it.

It is a further kick in the teeth for forum members and caravan buyers who have had to fight to get reliable product and customers service support but then allow manufacturers to promote themselves without any questions or challenges.

After turning a profit where does Practical Caravan's support lie? Is it with the caravanner's who buy the magazines and products and services within the magazine and those advertised on this web site or is PC just in league with the caravan trade at the expense of the consumer who one wpoulf assume they support and respect?
 
Nov 6, 2005
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There are other caravanning forums with open debates, subject to libel/slander laws, because they're free of the promotional ties that caravan magazines have.
 
Jan 9, 2008
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This seems to be one of the premier forums from one of the premier caravan magazines.

If you have an issue with quality or support from any caravan manufacturer is this not then the ideal place for discussion?

Other sites put the onus on mamabers for what they post, why would it be different here.

If there are issues with caravan quality and the caravan industry manufacturers or dealers support systems. By hiding those concerns and faults from public discussion the press and industry are using restrictive practices and cover ups if they prevent open debate and discussion!

What have they got to hide?

If your caravan leaks or the locker doors drop off and no one will do anything about it where do you turn to? It would be a brave maunfacturer to produce such tat and then sue a customer. magazine or web site for making their poor effort public knowlege.
 
Jan 31, 2008
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I agree with Roger, there are other forums which allow you to air your views on such subjects. The answer is to do it on those forums.

At the end of the day, you have to respect PCV's rules and etiquette without question. All forums have their own rules and their own reasons.
 
Jan 9, 2008
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This forum has a section called "Our Website", that suggests that it is inclusive and that members are partners in the site.

Even the House of Commons stands back at times and looks at its rules and what is acceptable in debate.

One could question the motives the owner of a very small web site forum that I undestand has had a tempestuous start and continues to have in fighting, yet comes on here and giving his veiws.

If "Our Website" is for the benefit of its members and readers of the PC magazine why would it retrict valid comment! This is not a question of rule breaking or being rude to manufacturers just a quest for common curtesy beteen supplier and customer!
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I also find this a mystery as there are other "traders" on this forum who have had a real slating but yet they advertise in PC. Two recent examples being the ongoing gripe about Towsure and also the saga of a particular brand of caravan polish. If an adverse posting can be made about these traders/products why cannot the same be done for caravan manufacturers.

The likes of Swift, Bailey, etc. generally turn out damn fine products but the rogue product inevitably slip through the net. When this happens surely the purchaser has the right to make this known to other prospective purchasers to make them aware of the problem. This could be beneficial to the manufacturer as it will make them sit up and improve their final inspection procedures and also feedback to eliminate the problem for future purchasers. I am sure that if I was in business and a problem occurred with my product I would be only too glad to know in order to try to eliminate it for the future.

As the policing is at present it appears to be very one sided in favour of the big boys at the expence of the consumer. It would be a good idea if PC magazine or this forum had a section within its pages where the problems could be highlighted and the manufacturer's remedy to rectify the problem would then be given - a fair crack of the whip for both parties. A "Watchdog" style of reporting and feedback.
 
Mar 13, 2007
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hi all

I do agree, however on must be carefull that manufacturers dont use any forum to premote their products and wares and whilst posting stiffle any averse comments just because they do post.

for instance in tow cars one could say "I would not tow with this car because i have one and the brakes are c**p" which would be allowed as it is a genuine comment, however in equipment ect,"I would not tow this van because the brakes are c**P", would not be allowed. strange eh.

to follow the argument further our old gordon comes in for some stick on here "quite rightly" but if he made a few posts all the comments would have to stop under the abusing a fellow poster rule.

may be someone should tell him ??.

"NO" on second thoughts don't as there will be nothing left to post about seeing as we arn't allowed to comment about vans.

colin
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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Forum members are never going to be universally pleased when any Moderating input happens and many will disagree with the removal of the post.

Members have every right to disagree and to say so.

As it happened Damian saw the post in question at about the same time as I must have done so he deleted it but had my fingers been as quick as Damian's I'd have done exactly the same.

Swift group were simply responding to the thanks posted by meals on wheels for the factory visit which was partially arranged via this forum.

Members accuse us of showing some sort of favouritism when a caravan manufacturer or maker of any product posts on the forum.

I owe allegiance to no one.

This is a caravan forum as you point out, but if a caravan or other manufacturer posts on the forum the abuse and insults start. Fine, why don't we just stick to the usual bigoted political posts that plague this forum.

If you have a specific issue involving your caravan or a general question then manufacturers can answere it on the forum or elsewhere if they so choose.

They can hardly be expected to deal with sweeping generalisations and the likes and dislikes of every forum member.

I've seen that members think that we got it wrong and that we should have a rethink.

I don't think so and fully support the decision to remove the post.

Sorry if this offends, it's not meant to.
 
Jan 31, 2008
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"One could question the motives the owner of a very small web site forum that I undestand has had a tempestuous start and continues to have in fighting, yet comes on here and giving his veiws."

And what's wrong with continuing to come here and give my views may I politely ask? I'm a member of several other forums too. It's a free country after all.

And we all know who created the tempestuous start to my forum. ;-) Happy to say that any "fighting" is soon nipped in the bud and since the "tempestuous" trouble-maker is no longer there, the forum is ticking over nicely.
 
Dec 14, 2006
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I think most postings, about specific problems, with specific caravans, and specific manufacturers are allowed on the forum. I've seen and read them, and there doesn't appear to be a problem. It seems to me that it's when a wholesale generalisation about a manufacturer is aired that the moderators step in. If this were to be an unmoderated forum then it's anyone's guess what might be posted!
 
Jan 9, 2008
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I am now even more concerned by Mod Parksy's post, how can a moderator just summarise in that way.

I had no concern at all about removal of my post and I believe I apologised within that thread.

My post here was only as to why manufacturers or businesses are protected from criticism and use the site to promote themselves where as a simple remark re the quality of products or a lack of customer service is taboo and frowned upon.

Re the previous post.

Set date manufacturing open days are often stage managed affairs with smart company apparel and the best of the work force paraded in clinical surroundings. Often the product does not reflect the manufacturing care that is paraded to the public at these times. Plus the normal work day on the production line is also often nothing like what the manufacturer wants potential customers seeing.

That is not an attack on any caravan manufacturer just a summary of manufacturing reality.

If manufacturing processes were always as good as displayed on open days there would be no complaints about leaking caravans or bit and bobs dropping off.
 
Jan 31, 2008
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Could I please just clarify here that my website isn't a business but a hobby. It's intended as a forum for like-minded friends and caravanners. I have no advertising on my site which is my own personal choice. I therefore make NO revenue from my forum nor do I wish to.

I admit I posted a link to my forum on another thread which was meant as a humorous reply as well as a truthful one. However, on THIS thread, I wasn't promoting my forum but merely giving my views and replying to a topic.
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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Oh yes, there's another forum, caravan related, and they all get on just sooooooooooooooo well. Great, to hear that. If only it were true though.

Lisa
 
Jan 31, 2008
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Oh it's true alright, Lisa. You wouldn't know would you? You got banned, remember.

Since Soozeeg and Martin_E were enlisted as moderators, life's been sweet with only the odd minor hiccup.

Now, can we get back to enjoying BOTH forums without EITHER forum (and moderators) being attacked all the time? IT seems to be all you and Jason do lately.
 

Damian

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Mar 14, 2005
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OK lets not have cross forum squabbles erupting here.

PCV forum is just that.PCV, it is not an extended playground for any other forum, including playground squabbles.
 
Jan 9, 2008
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Not making profit and not having advertising does not mean it is not a business or business opportunity!

Attract enough members and the site has even more business potential.

I understand that the site has a feature that has no lasting record. Legmaniac is therefore free to claim whatever he likes due to that.

Also why does he have to attack Lisa and I if he believes in harmony and site rules?
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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Sorry Damian - please accept my apologies.

I have been a member on here since 2003 or maybe 2004 and the beauty of this forum is that you don't get banned simply because you state facts or disagree. I much prefer a fourm owned by a company as opposed to one owned by an individual.

Lisa
 
Jan 9, 2008
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Sorry Damian - please accept my apologies.

I have been a member on here since 2003 or maybe 2004 and the beauty of this forum is that you don't get banned simply because you state facts or disagree. I much prefer a fourm owned by a company as opposed to one owned by an individual.

Lisa
I agree fully and second that!
 
Jan 31, 2008
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Exactly why we have a freedom of choice.
icon_biggrin.gif


Onwards and upwards now?
 

Parksy

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Ok this is starting to get silly now. The personal attacks have to stop, thet are in breach of forum etiquette and a warning has already been given.

To return to the points raised by Jason.

Damian has explained why your post was deleted and you did indeed graciously apologise. On here you expressed concern about me summarising the situation, fine no problem.

I accept that you were not complaining on this thread about the removal of your post but other forum members have expressed disquiet about the level of moderation on this and other threads so surely I'm allowed to put my point of view.

You might not agree with it, again, fine.

When did you visit Swifts factory then Jason, I don't recall seeing your name on any of the lists that are posted on here or other forums.

You are saying that the whole thing is stage managed and the best workforce is paraded in smart company apparel in clinical surroundings. Is that really what you saw when you visited Swift? Please tell us more.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Lisa - how about you, myself, Plotter and a few other unwelcomed contributers to a well known caravan forum start our own little forum and see how it develops. We could with a little bit of thought and moderation have a friendly set up on our hands. We could call ourselves "THE ALTERNATIVE FRIENDLY CARAVAN FORUM"
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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LOL Colin

That's an excellent idea. Seeing as you're retired and got loads of time on your hands, could you research please. LOL!!

They'll be no crude remarks on there or threads which have been amended by admin though.

Lisa xx
 

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