will i be alright to use blue gas during the half term break? how cold does it need to get before blue gas freezes?
FREEZING GAS?
- Thread starter gregory_374479215
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Damian
Moderator
None of the gase, Butane or Propane "freeze", they simply remain as a liquid under pressure.
However to answer your question, Butane will stop gassing at about 4 degrees, so depending how cold it is over half term, you may well find that you have no gasavailable for use, even though the cylinder may be full.
Propane on the other hand continues to gas down to -40 degrees, so is always available for your needs.
However to answer your question, Butane will stop gassing at about 4 degrees, so depending how cold it is over half term, you may well find that you have no gasavailable for use, even though the cylinder may be full.
Propane on the other hand continues to gas down to -40 degrees, so is always available for your needs.
Gas, by definition cannot freeze. Gas can become a liquid and that liquid can freeze.
Butane gas, a mixture of various isomers of butane has a boiling point of between 0 and 5 celsius. If the liquid in the cylinder falls below this temperature then it will freeze and the liquid cannot form a gas. The butane in the cylinder is a liquid because it is under pressure and becomes gaseous when the pressure is released (i.e. the tap is opened). If the liquid in the bottle freezes, which it will if the temperaure is low enough, then it cannot form a gas because it is a solid.
In another way of expressing this, if you put an ice cube in the oven, would it turn straight to steam, or melt into water and then form steam? The frozen water would turn to liquid and then to gas.
I will ignore the concept of sublimation, solid carbon dioxide turns to a gas and under a high vacuum ice will vapourise without forming a liquid.
To the OP, we originally used butane but switched to propane when the butane froze on cold nights in April, cold enough for a frost and snow. In my opinion, from now until Easter is the sort of time when propane is useful.
Butane gas, a mixture of various isomers of butane has a boiling point of between 0 and 5 celsius. If the liquid in the cylinder falls below this temperature then it will freeze and the liquid cannot form a gas. The butane in the cylinder is a liquid because it is under pressure and becomes gaseous when the pressure is released (i.e. the tap is opened). If the liquid in the bottle freezes, which it will if the temperaure is low enough, then it cannot form a gas because it is a solid.
In another way of expressing this, if you put an ice cube in the oven, would it turn straight to steam, or melt into water and then form steam? The frozen water would turn to liquid and then to gas.
I will ignore the concept of sublimation, solid carbon dioxide turns to a gas and under a high vacuum ice will vapourise without forming a liquid.
To the OP, we originally used butane but switched to propane when the butane froze on cold nights in April, cold enough for a frost and snow. In my opinion, from now until Easter is the sort of time when propane is useful.
Graeme.
I have to disagree with you, and support Damian's posting.
Butane boils at about 0C (propane boils at -40C). They do not freeze (i.e. change to a solid) at any temperature naturally occurring on earth.
As gas bottles naturally cool them selves as gas is used, the practical lower limit for Butane use in a caravan s is +5C. If ambient temperatures fall below that, then it makes sense to opt to use Propane.
I have to disagree with you, and support Damian's posting.
Butane boils at about 0C (propane boils at -40C). They do not freeze (i.e. change to a solid) at any temperature naturally occurring on earth.
As gas bottles naturally cool them selves as gas is used, the practical lower limit for Butane use in a caravan s is +5C. If ambient temperatures fall below that, then it makes sense to opt to use Propane.
Do not forget that the gas locker will not be at the outside temperature and the bottle would be protected from chilling winds if kept in the locker.
I wouldn't count on the gas locker being warmer than the ambient external temperature. they are designed to allow a good flow of ventilation air around the gas bottles for two reasons,. Firstly because the gas bottle needs access to ambient air to obtain the heat necessary to vaporise the liquefied gas., and secondly to allow any escape of gas to dissipate quickly.
I had to deal with a customer many years ago that contacted the company where I was working, who complained that our appliance would start first thing but after only a few minutes would go out. When asked what the weather was like, the customer replied it's been frosty over night but its warming up in the sunshine. We concluded his butane bottles were too cold, at which he piped up and said 'no that cant be right, because i've insulated them!'
It turned out that he had heard that butane didn't like the cold so he had packed insulation jackets all around the bottle. Even with an ambient temperature of 10 degrees this chaps bottle could not run his caravan from more than about 10 mins before the gas pressure dropped too low. The cause was that not enough ambient heat from the air could reach the bottles to warm them , so as he used the gas the self cooling effect cooled the bottle too much.
I had to deal with a customer many years ago that contacted the company where I was working, who complained that our appliance would start first thing but after only a few minutes would go out. When asked what the weather was like, the customer replied it's been frosty over night but its warming up in the sunshine. We concluded his butane bottles were too cold, at which he piped up and said 'no that cant be right, because i've insulated them!'
It turned out that he had heard that butane didn't like the cold so he had packed insulation jackets all around the bottle. Even with an ambient temperature of 10 degrees this chaps bottle could not run his caravan from more than about 10 mins before the gas pressure dropped too low. The cause was that not enough ambient heat from the air could reach the bottles to warm them , so as he used the gas the self cooling effect cooled the bottle too much.
There is one simple soloution to this problem just use Propane all the year round saves alot of hassle on how cold it is.This is what i do and never get any problems and I caravan all yaers round.
All,
I have to second Tony(Porthcawl) opinion. Use Propane all year round - prevents these issues and the need to change part bottles or keep them at home during the "wrong season" plus the regulator changes. I have even started to use Propane on the home BBQ (yes we use the BBQ all year round) as at this time of year Butane becomes lazy as its cooler.
I have to second Tony(Porthcawl) opinion. Use Propane all year round - prevents these issues and the need to change part bottles or keep them at home during the "wrong season" plus the regulator changes. I have even started to use Propane on the home BBQ (yes we use the BBQ all year round) as at this time of year Butane becomes lazy as its cooler.
I was thinking of the wind chill factor mostly when I said about the gas locker but it will be slightly warmer obviously nowhere near the temperature in the van.
We use propane all year round and it is slightly cheaper than butane (pence per heat value) if you use the bigger bottles and significantly cheaper if you can use Autogas.
Only one drawback we are finding is that every so often the burner on the fridge gets choked with carbon using propane and do not remember this on butane.
We use propane all year round and it is slightly cheaper than butane (pence per heat value) if you use the bigger bottles and significantly cheaper if you can use Autogas.
Only one drawback we are finding is that every so often the burner on the fridge gets choked with carbon using propane and do not remember this on butane.
I was thinking of the wind chill factor mostly when I said about the gas locker but it will be slightly warmer obviously nowhere near the temperature in the van.
We use propane all year round and it is slightly cheaper than butane (pence per heat value) if you use the bigger bottles and significantly cheaper if you can use Autogas.
Only one drawback we are finding is that every so often the burner on the fridge gets choked with carbon using propane and do not remember this on butane.
We use propane all year round and it is slightly cheaper than butane (pence per heat value) if you use the bigger bottles and significantly cheaper if you can use Autogas.
Only one drawback we are finding is that every so often the burner on the fridge gets choked with carbon using propane and do not remember this on butane.
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