Our 18 plate Sorento auto usually gives us about 25 mpg towing the coachman. Today from Oxford to Shropshire we got 29! This included several miles of stop go on the M40. The only difference is that I filled up with branded super diesel. Having been in Dorset for 10 days I left it to the last station to fill up, hoping to save a few pennies, only to find that they had no normal diesel. Anyone noticed if the posh fuel gives better consumption?
Fuel economy
- Thread starter waffler
- Start date
Never noticed any discernible difference and neither have many auto reviews. BP advertised it as 29 more miles per tankful which doesn’t say what type of car and it certainly would not be towing.
However the engine does seem to be a bit smoother. I buy premium fuel fir its higher detergent content.
However the engine does seem to be a bit smoother. I buy premium fuel fir its higher detergent content.
Robert Jackson, who until he met his untimely death a few years ago, used to answer topics on several forums about the different brands and types of fuel. Besides being a chemist in the petro-chemical industry, he was also the UK representative on the EU standards committee for motor vehicle fuels. About the top quality fuels, he wrote that if your diesel-engine "self tunes" then you could expect between a 3 and 5% improvement in fuel consumption because of the higher cetane rating and a better additive pack.
His opinion on supermarket fuels was favourable too. It seems the only difference there might sometimes be is in the additive pack.
His opinion on supermarket fuels was favourable too. It seems the only difference there might sometimes be is in the additive pack.
Hello Waffler
I think the results you have are inconclusive, you report entirely differnt driving styles which will affect the results dramatically.
In my previous car (Saab 9-3 2.2 diesel) I attempted several comparisons between standard, premium and Bio grades. Whilst I'd like to think I detected slightly better economy on the premium fuel, the results could easily be down to changing traffic conditions and the greater proportion of short journeys I tend to do. Just for your information, the BIO grade was poor both on performance, and MPG.
Like Otherclive, I think I detected a smoother running engine, but that cold just be self fulfilling fantasy.
With my current VW passat (2.0DTI 170) I have tried to repeat the tests, but as before any perceivable differences cold be down to normal changes in driving conditions, but additionally I can't say I've noticed any change in the engines smoothness. However I am plagued with Diesel Particulate Filter, which on this vehicle seems to need to be regenerated far more frequently than other vehicles, and when the car decides to do a regeneration, it causes teh engine to be much rougher, and I'm finding I have to make special journeys to allow the filter to clear, so I'm no nearer to establishing any clear data on the difference between Regular and Premium diesel.
Its my guess that it would take a lot of additional driving to prove any benefit, and then if its only a couple of % it become very questionable if the performance justifies the additional costs.
I think the results you have are inconclusive, you report entirely differnt driving styles which will affect the results dramatically.
In my previous car (Saab 9-3 2.2 diesel) I attempted several comparisons between standard, premium and Bio grades. Whilst I'd like to think I detected slightly better economy on the premium fuel, the results could easily be down to changing traffic conditions and the greater proportion of short journeys I tend to do. Just for your information, the BIO grade was poor both on performance, and MPG.
Like Otherclive, I think I detected a smoother running engine, but that cold just be self fulfilling fantasy.
With my current VW passat (2.0DTI 170) I have tried to repeat the tests, but as before any perceivable differences cold be down to normal changes in driving conditions, but additionally I can't say I've noticed any change in the engines smoothness. However I am plagued with Diesel Particulate Filter, which on this vehicle seems to need to be regenerated far more frequently than other vehicles, and when the car decides to do a regeneration, it causes teh engine to be much rougher, and I'm finding I have to make special journeys to allow the filter to clear, so I'm no nearer to establishing any clear data on the difference between Regular and Premium diesel.
Its my guess that it would take a lot of additional driving to prove any benefit, and then if its only a couple of % it become very questionable if the performance justifies the additional costs.
Jaydug said:
He knew what he was talking about that's for sure.
Having tried the expensive fuel with my last cx-5 i did find i was getting another 2mpg, but no noticeable increase in performance, however the cost of the fuel meant there was no financial savings.
I once - and only once - filled up with Shell V2000(?) in Luxembourg where it was even cheaper than supermarket fuel in the UK and tried to map it. Yes I think it did make the engine run a bit smoother and quieter but with no noticeable consumption change, this on the 140bhp CR TDi VAG engine.
What my service agent does say is that it is worthwhile filling the tank maybe 1:4 or 1:5 with good branded fuel if you run on supermarket fuel the rest of the time. By good fuel he means Shell or BP, or if there is a price differential then Esso or Texaco. This gives the ECU time to re-learn and adjust the settings slightly, and the additives pack in the better fuel to do their magic.
Prof notes that his Passat runs rougher during the DPF cleaning cycle. On three Passats (2x 2L 140 CR TDi and our present 2L 150 CR TDi) I have never noticed this effect. What I do notice is that when the cycle is being run and I stop, the engine fans keep running at full bore for about 5 minutes. Towing is actually a very good method of detoxing the DPF as the engine runs much hotter, or failing that 30 mins at around a constant 2000rpm on a suitable road has the same effect.
What my service agent does say is that it is worthwhile filling the tank maybe 1:4 or 1:5 with good branded fuel if you run on supermarket fuel the rest of the time. By good fuel he means Shell or BP, or if there is a price differential then Esso or Texaco. This gives the ECU time to re-learn and adjust the settings slightly, and the additives pack in the better fuel to do their magic.
Prof notes that his Passat runs rougher during the DPF cleaning cycle. On three Passats (2x 2L 140 CR TDi and our present 2L 150 CR TDi) I have never noticed this effect. What I do notice is that when the cycle is being run and I stop, the engine fans keep running at full bore for about 5 minutes. Towing is actually a very good method of detoxing the DPF as the engine runs much hotter, or failing that 30 mins at around a constant 2000rpm on a suitable road has the same effect.
For over 12 months I’ve been filling up weekly with premium BP diesel as a filling station in Leicester only charged 5 pence extra which is BPs recommenced differential. There was no noticeable difference in consumption. Our local garages in Wiltshire all charge around 12-15 pence extra so I only fill up about one in four. My reason being that the additive package in premium fuel helps to keep the fuel sytem clean and has improved lubricity which helps fuel pump life. Premium diesel also has a lower ash specification compared to branded fuel. So as ash resides in the DPF that components life is extended. But with me only using premium 1 in 4 DPF extra life isn’t an issue.
xtrailman said:
RobJax did mention the fact that any improvement in fuel consumption might be wiped out by the increased cost. As an alternative, he mentioned after-market additives. On that point, he wrote,
"Aftermarket products like Millers improve the cetane rating of standard diesel, but only when the engine is cold - interestingly it doesn't help a hot engine - so cold starting is usually quieter but no difference to a hot engine - and Millers does provide good, additional pump lubricity.
......................... stick with the regular diesel fuel, and add Redex or Millers at the recommended dosage level - adding more won't improve the performance.
And don't be dismissive of supermarket fuel, it can and often is identical to branded fuel."
Jaydug said:
While supermarket fuel must meet the same U.K. and EU standard as regular branded fuel, but how do you know it is often the same as branded fuel? Seeing a mix of different badged tankers at a fuel depot doesn’t mean that Esso or BP are identical as additive mixes can be different between brands and can be added at different points in the supply chain.
Upto 75k my previous Sorento had mostly used supermarkets diesel. The EGR seized and the turbo inter cooler pipes were heavily clogged resulting in a very smoky exhaust. New parts fitted by Kia Dealer and all was well. The mechanic blamed the cause on my super market fuel.
Wooden top offers the best advice, switch regularly between top grade and super market. I have done this with my current Sorento, no,problems.
However I have no technical evidence to prove one fuel is better than the other . But I believe my own practical experience and that of Woodentop must carry some merit.
Wooden top offers the best advice, switch regularly between top grade and super market. I have done this with my current Sorento, no,problems.
However I have no technical evidence to prove one fuel is better than the other . But I believe my own practical experience and that of Woodentop must carry some merit.
Dustydog said:
My Sorento (Gen 1) and Disco 2 TD5 both had EGRs changed around that mileage and both had been run on branded fuels. In fact the last time I bought supermarket fuel was in March 2003 when I handed the company car back. In our area where there are still several fuel stations and supermarkets the competition ensures that branded fuel is very close in price to supermarket fuel and at some times of the day it can be a penny cheaper with flexible pricing.
otherclive said:
And also you have no idea of the additives used by branded fuel, only the claims...
I use nearly 100% supermarket fuel only using other brands when i have no choice on holiday, I've never had a DPF, EGR, or any other fuel issue or engine problem related to fuel since my Mk1 Cortina and that was water in the carburettor bought from a cheap private fuel station., other than oil dilution with Mazda cars, and a brake vacuum pump that prematurely wore that needed to be changed after a recall...
I also do short journeys with a diesel and only 7K miles a year.
otherclive said:
Chap on the Mazda cx-5 forum had his intake choked up he only used branded fuel, and that was at around 30K miles.
xtrailman said:
One swallow doesn’t make a summer. You have no idea how he used the car. But evidence shows that repeated short journeys not allowing the car to warm up (oil temperature) will lead to problems. My previous and current diesel tow car tends to sit around doing nothing unless I take it out for a weekly run of around 25 miles or there is a longer journey in the offing.
I think this thread is demonstrating that trying to confirm if changing a fuel can make a significant difference to overall fuel economy is very difficult to prove during normal driving. There are so many variables which will have almost as much influence or more on economy as any differences in the fuel.
It's very tempting to try a change for a few fill up's, but you also need to look at the varying driving conditions which as we all know a change in average speed of a coupe of miles an hour can make a noticeable difference in economy, but also there are effects that ambient temperature and humidity, not to mention water on the road, we all know how much extra drag you feel if you run through a puddle. This all uses more fuel.
If a driver claims just a few percent difference I would be suspicious that it could be down to driving variables, but if it were closer to 10% or more then it would have greater credence.
Unfortunately the only way to get definitive results is to use scientific testing in controlled conditions.
It's very tempting to try a change for a few fill up's, but you also need to look at the varying driving conditions which as we all know a change in average speed of a coupe of miles an hour can make a noticeable difference in economy, but also there are effects that ambient temperature and humidity, not to mention water on the road, we all know how much extra drag you feel if you run through a puddle. This all uses more fuel.
If a driver claims just a few percent difference I would be suspicious that it could be down to driving variables, but if it were closer to 10% or more then it would have greater credence.
Unfortunately the only way to get definitive results is to use scientific testing in controlled conditions.
In my case I am sure the main dealer was trying to genuinely find a cause. As I said there is no evidence. The vehicle was used heavily on long distance drives, most of at least 90 minutes and 000s towing. Very few short journeys. Looking at other forums there is still no definite explanation or answer which is the best fuel for overall performance or emmision cleanliness :woohoo:
Parksy
Moderator
My 2009 Sorento tow car and my 2013 Fiesta 1.6 Eco diesel runabout both run on supermarket fuel with no problems.
A couple of weeks before the respective MOT's come round I fill up with a premium fuel with the vague unproven hope that the premium fuel will clean the fuel systems of each car.
I haven't noticed any real difference in fuel economy, but with the premium fuel the Sorento seems to run more smoothly with better acceleration.
Because acceleration isn't a priority for the caravan tug I go back to the supermarket stuff when the cars pass the MOT.
A couple of weeks before the respective MOT's come round I fill up with a premium fuel with the vague unproven hope that the premium fuel will clean the fuel systems of each car.
I haven't noticed any real difference in fuel economy, but with the premium fuel the Sorento seems to run more smoothly with better acceleration.
Because acceleration isn't a priority for the caravan tug I go back to the supermarket stuff when the cars pass the MOT.
Parksy said:
You romantic Parksy
It’s cheaper to buy diesel additives on line, like the old days of ucl Red X.
Must admit at each annual service my local garage adds a diesel fuel additive.
Parksy said:
Four of our five family cars need MOTs and they all get a generous treatment of Millers a couple of weeks before the test date. The additive plus the sprint along the M23 to the test station ensures they quite often get a fast pass - even the two 1998 reg cars.
We came back from France in August and two days after back our Kuga was due an MOT , we normally just put asda fuel in and have no problem , but travelling back via motorways it had a generous 4 full tanks of decent stuff or shall I say motorway fuel and passed no bother , I'm sure it would off passed anyway .
otherclive said:
Its rare that i do over 12 miles to anywhere, usually its 8 miles to the SIL, or 2.5 mile to the supermarket, all none motorway.
Craigyoung said:
All my cars have passed their MOT since i had an Austin A40 my first car, the floor had rusted away!
All on supermarket fuel.
My daughter had a light on her dash board that worried her,so asked me to get it checked out,the mechanic said there was nothing wrong but she ought to stop using supermarket fuel.I did and filled up with a premium diesel which gave us a better mileage per gallon towing.I then filled up at Costco on 2nd daughter's boyfriend recomendation and that seems to have lasted ages,I did a 100 mile round trip to Lincoln average speed 55 mph average speed fuel consumption 44 mpg.Next time I fill up I'll be paying a few pence per litre more
zodd said:
So what was the Costco fuel? Own brand, branded or branded premium? Are you saying the figures you give are worse than when using branded fuel. Although using approximately 2.5 gallons isn’t really that relevant a figure. Different atmospheric conditions, wind, traffic etc could have quite an effect on the figures.
Since my DPF regen throughthe previou owner doing short journeys round the lanes of Norfolk I now only use BP Utimate diesel and every three month add DPF cleaner tothe fuel tank,
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