Fuel prices

[Steve L]

Have we all gone soft now over the cost of fuel!! The last time petrol hit 90p a litre, we had lorries doing a crawl to block motorways etc.

We have just experienced 300 fruit pickers (eastern block origin) doing a sit down on our main road to town. They were protesting about low income and poor conditions.

No body seems to be raising any objection to the fuel price. What about if everyone stopped their cars for say 1 hour in the road where they are at the time, as a mark of disgust at us motorist's being ripped off again.

The french do it, blockading prots and auto routes to get the authorities to take note of public oppinion.

What say you all or am I on my own on this one?

 

[ricpop]

I think the answer is 'get it while you can'. We are not far away from quewing at petrol stations to buy petrol and rationing is not far behind that. The reason for this is that for the last few years demand for oil has outstripped the ammount being pumped ouit of the ground. The big worry is that as China becomes more prosperous and starts to us cars more then things will rapidly go down hill.

 

[LMH]

Steve

I agree totally with you. Just got back from our hols (Cornwall) and in some parts, diesel was 99.9p/litre.

I wish someone would spread the word about a public objection, I for one would certainly block a road for an hour.

Regards.

lh

 

[tonyd1]

Hi,

This is a topic close to my heart. There is no question about it - that there are possibilities for modern science to find cheap alternatives to crude oil. The Yanks fly their shuttle craft in part on hydrogen. Americas huge oil conglomerates would quickly fall into decline if water could be turned into cheap energy.

What irritates me is how our troops are losing their lives suporting the US in their quest to ensure that the Yanks have the monopoly on Iraq's huge oil deposits thereby ensuring that the Yanks pay a little over a

 

[Viking1]

Hi,

This is a topic close to my heart. There is no question about it - that there are possibilities for modern science to find cheap alternatives to crude oil. The Yanks fly their shuttle craft in part on hydrogen. Americas huge oil conglomerates would quickly fall into decline if water could be turned into cheap energy.

What irritates me is how our troops are losing their lives suporting the US in their quest to ensure that the Yanks have the monopoly on Iraq's huge oil deposits thereby ensuring that the Yanks pay a little over a

 

[Viking1]

00:49 AM I would has well.

We have two bujist a yaer now so the goumert get mor.

One off the petrol cupys made so meny bilyon last puter

let give them a kick

Mar

 

[RogerL_5041474]

We had an election earlier this year. We (collectively, not me) voted New Labour in for a third term. They haven't changed their policy on fuel duty so why should we (collectively) be surprised at the present situation.

If the government reduced the duty on fuel, thus reducing the price, income tax would have to go up. We'd also use more fuel causing even more congestion and pollution.

If you don't like the high price of fuel, buy a more economical car. It can be done, even for caravanners.

 

[Lol1]

That's not much of an argument Roger. It isn't just caravaners that suffer from high fuel prices, it also impacts on the commercial world too. What about those on a low income and how do other countries manage to have lower fuel duty? Your argument, taken to it's logical conclusion gives the government (whoever that is at the time) the ability to charge whatever they want to, its up to the consumer to find cheaper alternatives, and if we don't, well, its our fault then, isn't it!

Don't get me wrong, pollution is a major problem, but it's not going to be sorted by charging astronomical prices for fuel. Lets just start with stopping all the money wasted by an inept government, to bring prices down and get our own house in order first before we put the world to right....

 

[RogerL_5041474]

You've missed my point. The way to get rid of inept government and bad policies is to vote for someone else at a General Election.

We didn't so we've got the government and policies we deserve.

Don't blame me, I didn't vote New Labour in!

 

[jacky3]

only trouble is, we got rid of an very inept tory goverment to vote in a lesser inept labour government government.vote in liberal or the green party and we will all be on bikes

 

[jacky3]

ps roger,what are the typical miro and mptlm of a run of the mill bike,and the cost of fitting a tow bar????

 

[CliveV]

Hi - we have had a couple of emails in the office re the selective use of petrol companies so as to make a point. The idea being that a selective boycott will be noticed.

Have a read - see what you think -

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy petrol on a certain day"

campaign that was going around last April or May!

The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol.

It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.

BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.

Please read it and join in!

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace not sellers.

With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action.

The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol!

And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP.

If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices.

If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers.

It's really simple to do!!

Now, don't wimp out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to a lot of people.

If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) . and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!

If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!

If it goes one level further, you guessed it... .. THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people.

That's all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP)

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8days!!!

I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you!

Acting together we can make a difference.

If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE RANGE

It's easy to make this happen.

Just forward this email, and buy your petrol at Shell, Asda, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons Jet etc.

i.e. boycott BP and Esso.

 

[RogerL_5041474]

CliveV - great idea but to make it work we need to know which supermarket chains are supplied by BP/ESSO. Many of us buy fuel from supermarkets because they're cheap and/or convenient. We'd need to add any supermarket chains which are supplied by BP/ESSO otherwise the campaign would be a damp squib.

 

[CliveV]

Please do ot think this is my idea - It Isn't!

The main flaw is as you say, they will sell the fuel through other outlets.

I also do not relish perhaps seeing people lose their jobs because of the actions we collectively take against a single company.

However, with the profits being made due to the high cost of oil the idea does have potential merit. It was treated to a very lukewarm welcome in this office tho'

 

[ricpop]

Please do ot think this is my idea - It Isn't!

The main flaw is as you say, they will sell the fuel through other outlets.

I also do not relish perhaps seeing people lose their jobs because of the actions we collectively take against a single company.

However, with the profits being made due to the high cost of oil the idea does have potential merit. It was treated to a very lukewarm welcome in this office tho'

Youre living in cloud cuckoo land if you think petrol will come down to 69p per litre. The big petrol companies like BP ESSO etc are a cartel that control the market. The supermarkets buy their supplies off them. As to voting this government out in the hope that some other lot will bring the prices down - you must be joking it wont make any difference we get screwed by whatever government is in power. The only way to beat them is to become a traveller then you can get away with blue murder and youre fuel is free all you have to do is buy a syphon.

 

[Steve L]

Most of you are right. A large proportion of us buy our fuel from the Supermarkets anyway to save the penny or two per litre. The supermarkets buy their fuel from the same refinaries that the big boys do.

That's why I was suggesting a more visual approach. You see as soon it get's national recognition (news coverage) then 95% of the nation find out and it echos around the world too.

I already shop for the cheapest petro; and have carried illegally upto 60litres of petrol in cans from Worcester to Leominster when Petrol was 4p a ltr cheaper where I work to home. I commute by car (no train/bus available) 15K miles a year and if I can save 1p per litre it is

 

[CliveV]

Please do ot think this is my idea - It Isn't!

The main flaw is as you say, they will sell the fuel through other outlets.

I also do not relish perhaps seeing people lose their jobs because of the actions we collectively take against a single company.

However, with the profits being made due to the high cost of oil the idea does have potential merit. It was treated to a very lukewarm welcome in this office tho'

I agree - the above was an email recieved in the office - we all felt the same as you.

The only merit I see in the concept is that by selecting a single outlet and boycotting it en-masse a dramatic effect IS possible.

My worry though is what the opportunity cost would be.

 

[Lutz]

It's comforting to know that you all there over on the other side of the Channel are in the same situation. Us peasants have to watch every penny (or rather, Eurocent) too.

So long as them there in the USA and China have an insatiable appetite for oil, I doubt whether anything will change very much, regardless of how we react.

 

[Surfer]

If I so wished I could put vegetable oil in my car an save our depleting fossils reserves but the government still taxes you on that. For every litre of vegetable oil I use I have to pay Customs and excise 47p. So much for an environmentally friendly government. I don't mind paying some tax, but 47p per litre is ridiculous! Lutz what is the position on using vegetable oil in your car in your country?

 

[Lutz]

I know of people running their cars on bulk supplies of Mazola from their local supermarket. There is no tax on pure vegetable oil over here, only on mineral oil.

 

[Mike_5041089]

Steve in Leo - Whilst I have every sympathy for the motorist as fuel costs affect me like everybody else, the last action by fuel protesters cost me and everyone else who relies on driving to do their job a small fortune. So please don't start more direct action as this disrupts business and everbody else's lives too much and makes little difference to the oil co's, but it could stop us all going vanning when we want to! Surely the point is to lobby the Govt, as all over Europe fuel is much cheaper than here due to lower taxes. Most of us are now running more economical cars - they're called diesels!

 

[colin(bridgend)]

The answer in my opinion would be to block sales from two major suppliers e.g. Esso and B.P. and purchase fuel from the supermarkets. Also boycot the motorway service areas - Tesco, Siansbury and I believe Morrisons issue free guides to their store locations, many of which are near to motorway junctions/service areas. Not only is their fuel cheaper but also the food they offer in their cafeterias. Together by taking this action I am sure that the big suppliers/retailers will sit up and take notice and reduce their prices accordingly. It may take a while for the effect to come to fruition but it will show the big boys that the public are taking notice and fighting back. What do you think of this idea? Shall we unite and give it a go?

 

[Mark_5040952]

The answer in my opinion would be to block sales from two major suppliers e.g. Esso and B.P. and purchase fuel from the supermarkets. Also boycot the motorway service areas - Tesco, Siansbury and I believe Morrisons issue free guides to their store locations, many of which are near to motorway junctions/service areas. Not only is their fuel cheaper but also the food they offer in their cafeterias. Together by taking this action I am sure that the big suppliers/retailers will sit up and take notice and reduce their prices accordingly. It may take a while for the effect to come to fruition but it will show the big boys that the public are taking notice and fighting back. What do you think of this idea? Shall we unite and give it a go?

But Tesco and Sainsburys both buy their petrol from Esso.

 

[Lol1]

You've missed my point. The way to get rid of inept government and bad policies is to vote for someone else at a General Election.

We didn't so we've got the government and policies we deserve.

Don't blame me, I didn't vote New Labour in!

Is there a party that can bring down the price and appease the "greens" at the same time? Nope, thought not. We need to deal with the government we have, like em or not....

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have sympathy for the proposed idea of boycotting a particular fuel supplier, but please spare a thought for the forecourt operator, and the longer term effects of such a unilateral move.

It is my understanding that many of the fuel retailers are independent companies who franchise the corporate image of the bulk suppliers.

If you were to ask any of them what profit margin the retailer gets, they may laugh at you. There have been some reports that that the margin per litre is in the order of 5p or less, and where a credit or debit card is used the margin falls in some cases to zero. Look at the number of independents that have closed over the last 5 years.

The bulk of profit comes from ancillary services such as sweets and news papers; the fuel is in many cases a loss leader.

There is now much greater profit in the value of land site, especially where it falls within an existing residential area. Modern building will get between 4 to 6 houses on a typical filling station site. At today's prices that's a profit after building costs of between .5 to 2 Million depending on area!

I suspect the effect of boycotting a particular supplier will cause redundancies, the sale of sites to developers. The target companies will offset their losses by increasing prices to bulk purchasers such as the supermarkets. With the loss of the independents the competition will be diminished and guess what, there will be less pressure on the supermarkets to keep prices down.

My view is that the only way to force prices down is for the consumer to use less.