Is it possible for the gas pipes to freeze up in the icy weather. The reason I ask this question is because I went to my van which is in storage and found that I couldn't light my Gas cooker. There just wasn't any gas coming through. Could it possibibly the regulator is frozen up also. Ken
Gas
- Thread starter kennygee
- Start date
What colour bottle have you got ?
If you have Butane ( blue bottle ) then yes as it will not gas.......
Propane no !
If you have Butane ( blue bottle ) then yes as it will not gas.......
Propane no !
Are you using propane or butane, ( red or blue ) bottle? Butane ( Blue bottle ) does not gas off under about 4 degrees centigrade, so that could be your problem.
Steve W
Steve W
kennygee said:
Hello Ken,
Its common misconception that as the temperature drops to around freezing that buutane (Blue bottle gas) will start to 'freeze' . It's true that you find you cant get gas from the bottle, but its not 'freezing' is actually stopped 'boiling' or 'vapourising' so the liquified gas no longer produces vapour or gas that we can use.
The simplest solution is to change from Butane to Propane which stops boiling around Minus 40C, so its fine for UK weather.
Incidentally, don't try insulating the gas bottles, as it will make the problem worse.
If you want to know why I am prepared to explain, but it is quite a long and involved description.
Mel
Moderator
Dunno what the lowest temperature for Propane is; but it has been very cold in some places. On the other hand you could have the dreaded blocked regulator.
mel
mel
Parksy
Moderator
Propane will "gas-off" down to around -40C so no problem in the UK in any extreme conditions.
As the OP is using propane, not butane, the regulator should be the suspect, particularly if it's the bulkhead-mounted type - the early blocking problem was averted by running the pipes correctly but never stopped the leaching of material from the high-pressure pipes which may be just enough to cause blockages in cold conditions, ie like now.
As the OP is using propane, not butane, the regulator should be the suspect, particularly if it's the bulkhead-mounted type - the early blocking problem was averted by running the pipes correctly but never stopped the leaching of material from the high-pressure pipes which may be just enough to cause blockages in cold conditions, ie like now.
Damian
Moderator
Propane will provide usable gas pressure to -45degrees C.
I assume you checked that all the relevant gas isolation taps were open and he cylinder had gas in it?
If yes to all that, then the regulator is suspect and if blocked will need replacing.
The oily blockage is caused by the impurities in the gas cylinder, the hoses have very little to do with the problem, if anything, despite people keep saying they do.
If all the plasticiser was leached out of the hoses they would crumble like dust, they dont, they are normally in very good condition.
If your regulator is blocked get an engineer to replace it with a Clesse regulator which will not block as the GOK (Truma) ones do.
As the bulkhead regulator forms part of the fixed gas system, it must be replaced by suitably qualified LPG engineer and the system leak and pressure tested after fitment.
I assume you checked that all the relevant gas isolation taps were open and he cylinder had gas in it?
If yes to all that, then the regulator is suspect and if blocked will need replacing.
The oily blockage is caused by the impurities in the gas cylinder, the hoses have very little to do with the problem, if anything, despite people keep saying they do.
If all the plasticiser was leached out of the hoses they would crumble like dust, they dont, they are normally in very good condition.
If your regulator is blocked get an engineer to replace it with a Clesse regulator which will not block as the GOK (Truma) ones do.
As the bulkhead regulator forms part of the fixed gas system, it must be replaced by suitably qualified LPG engineer and the system leak and pressure tested after fitment.
Mel
Moderator
O.K. so I didn't read prof john's post properlyParksy said:
mel
It isn't the regulator that's attached to the bulkhead, it is the one that sits on top of the cylinder. I am waiting for a change in the weather to try it again. It is stored in Scotland not Siberia Ha Ha
Propane freezes at about -180C but with a boiling point of -42C and Butane freezes at -140 and has a boiling point of -1C so it would take a bit more than Siberian weather to freeze either! LOL!
All this talk about freezing/boiling, if a cop with a gun shouts 'freeze' you know it means don't move, same as gas that's to cold to come out the bottle and does not require further explanation
Hello again Kenny,
You have told us that you are using propane, so assuming there is still some liquified gas in the bottle, it should supply .
You have tolds us that the cooker does not work, do any of the other appliances work?
Have you ensured that all isolating valves were open?
Some cookers have an integral lid which has a gas interlock to cut off the supply if the lid is not fully open. Perhaps the interlock may need adjustment.
I have to point out that if any item the gas system is playing up and either needs adjustment of replacment, for your own safety arrange to get the whole caravan to be seen by a competent gas fitter.
Moderator Note:
Last comment removed.
It is not required to try and dictate what other forum users post or "advise" them that "they dont need to read the postings"
Any more condescending comments and other action will be taken, and not just removing parts of postings.
You have told us that you are using propane, so assuming there is still some liquified gas in the bottle, it should supply .
You have tolds us that the cooker does not work, do any of the other appliances work?
Have you ensured that all isolating valves were open?
Some cookers have an integral lid which has a gas interlock to cut off the supply if the lid is not fully open. Perhaps the interlock may need adjustment.
I have to point out that if any item the gas system is playing up and either needs adjustment of replacment, for your own safety arrange to get the whole caravan to be seen by a competent gas fitter.
Moderator Note:
Last comment removed.
It is not required to try and dictate what other forum users post or "advise" them that "they dont need to read the postings"
Any more condescending comments and other action will be taken, and not just removing parts of postings.
Although "freezing" is a technically incorrect term, almost everyone that uses butane knows about this.
It's not wrong to add the correct explanation into a thread on lpg in cold weather but there's no need to castigate anyone who uses the term.
It's not wrong to add the correct explanation into a thread on lpg in cold weather but there's no need to castigate anyone who uses the term.
I'm not suggesting that you do this...But I would disconnect the rubber pipe fron the regulator and then turn on the cylinder for a very short time to hear / smell for gas.
I might then refit hose to the regulator and then disconnect the gas hose at it's other other end to check for supply.
That's what I would do.
I might then refit hose to the regulator and then disconnect the gas hose at it's other other end to check for supply.
That's what I would do.
Damian
Moderator
I second the initial action suggested by Brum.
Disconnect the hose from the regulator and crack the cylinder valve open a little and see if gas comes through, that way you eliminate one item.
If you get gas shut the cylinder valve, reconnect the pipe and secure with a jubilee clip, make sure all the appliance shut off valves are closed, open the gas cylinder and check for leaks where you reconnected the pipe , with soapy water.
Then one at a time open each isolation valve and try each appliance.
If no joy, then its time to call someone in to fix it.
PS Better add, as I am sure I wil be hauled over the coals, DONT SMOKE or have any naked lights when doing any of the above.
Disconnect the hose from the regulator and crack the cylinder valve open a little and see if gas comes through, that way you eliminate one item.
If you get gas shut the cylinder valve, reconnect the pipe and secure with a jubilee clip, make sure all the appliance shut off valves are closed, open the gas cylinder and check for leaks where you reconnected the pipe , with soapy water.
Then one at a time open each isolation valve and try each appliance.
If no joy, then its time to call someone in to fix it.
PS Better add, as I am sure I wil be hauled over the coals, DONT SMOKE or have any naked lights when doing any of the above.
Hi just a thought for years we kept the 13KG propane bottle outside the van and we caravaned in Aviemore in the winter wih temperatures dropping to -20 one year,the regulater had a breather hole on the top and it could freeze so just turned the regulater a wee bit so that the hole pointed down and everything was fine
allan
allan
Hello Allan,
Allowing a regulator breather hole to be exposed is definately not recommended. The Gas regs require the regulator and valve gear of a bottle to be protected from rain.
The reason is to prevent water from entering the regulator through the atmospheric breather hole. If water can get into the regulator, as the gas high pressure gas from the bottle passes through and expands it cools the body of the regulator. This cooling can be enough to cause any water on the diaphragm to freeze and prevent the diaphragm from working properly. This coudl lead to either no gas throughput to excess pressure, depending on where the diaphragm is locked by the ice.
Allowing a regulator breather hole to be exposed is definately not recommended. The Gas regs require the regulator and valve gear of a bottle to be protected from rain.
The reason is to prevent water from entering the regulator through the atmospheric breather hole. If water can get into the regulator, as the gas high pressure gas from the bottle passes through and expands it cools the body of the regulator. This cooling can be enough to cause any water on the diaphragm to freeze and prevent the diaphragm from working properly. This coudl lead to either no gas throughput to excess pressure, depending on where the diaphragm is locked by the ice.
Damian
Moderator
Quote "The Gas regs require the regulator and valve gear of a bottle to be protected from rain."
NO they do not!
Regulation 14(2) of the Gas safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 simply states that "The air vents(located above the diaphragm in the regulator) must be orientated or protected to prevent the ingress of water or substances which could cause blockage."
It makes NO mention of the valve gear of a CYLINDER (they are NOT bottles) being kept out of the rain, in fact all bulk storage is open to the elements as are cylinders located outside static vans, RPH's and permanent dwellings.
The danger of water or moisture entering the internal parts of the regulator is it will cause the spring to rust and fail, allowing cylinder pressure gas into the system, which will be very serious and very dangerous
NO they do not!
Regulation 14(2) of the Gas safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 simply states that "The air vents(located above the diaphragm in the regulator) must be orientated or protected to prevent the ingress of water or substances which could cause blockage."
It makes NO mention of the valve gear of a CYLINDER (they are NOT bottles) being kept out of the rain, in fact all bulk storage is open to the elements as are cylinders located outside static vans, RPH's and permanent dwellings.
The danger of water or moisture entering the internal parts of the regulator is it will cause the spring to rust and fail, allowing cylinder pressure gas into the system, which will be very serious and very dangerous
Hello Damian,
We are after the same thing here, gas safety.
I did not quote the regulation, However thank you for the quote.
I offered an interpretation that would comply with the regulation. It may not be a requirement to protect the valve gear but it is good practice, which is why most gas bottle cages include a rain shedding angled roof.
I concur with you that some springs are susceptible to rusting, and that would also compromise the safe operation of the regulator.
We are after the same thing here, gas safety.
I did not quote the regulation, However thank you for the quote.
I offered an interpretation that would comply with the regulation. It may not be a requirement to protect the valve gear but it is good practice, which is why most gas bottle cages include a rain shedding angled roof.
I concur with you that some springs are susceptible to rusting, and that would also compromise the safe operation of the regulator.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread. I can confirm now that the situation has now been resolved. I replaced the Regulator with another one and Hey Presto, it worked.
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