Gell or acid

Aug 17, 2019
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Is there any advantage in changeing from my banner 110amp leisure battery to a gell battery we went on a new year rally and talking to a few other caravaners they were useing gell battery's i must admit we were well down on power over the 5 days had to use my genni a few times also would my new caravan need any adapting charge wise if i change to a gell
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Gel batteries don't perform as well as AGM in cold conditions - many built-in chargers won't properly charge Gel or AGM - just stick with EFB lead-acid.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I tend to agree with Roger, If your managing with you battery and recharging practicalities, then why go to the expense of changing it.

If your battery is old and no longer accepting enough charge, then you could consider changing battery type, but you would have to ensure the charger you use was suitable.

Essentially the ability of any battery to keep powering your caravan is dependant on how much power you choose to use, and the capacity of the battery. Regardless of the type of battery its ultimately its Ah capacity and it would make no difference if its an AGM or a Gel or a wet lead acid battery if they have the saem AH rating none would supply more power than the others.

I'd suggest you might look at how you are using power now and if there are any simple and easy ways to reduce your consumption. Most people look at the big power hungry items first, but it can be surprising how the little things add up, for example having a 12W light bub on for two hours will use as much power at the caravan mover typically does when you arrive at site, its just spread oud over a longer time, Perhaps consider listening to the radio rather than having television on in the mornings, Turn off lights when they are not needed, Run the heating at a slightly lower setting might save a few Ah of battery charge over a week end or longer.

Consider getting some solar panels, certainly quieter than a genny, greener and in the long term both cheaper and more reliable and always available - almost fit and forget .

On occasions, I used to have a second battery which I charged in the boot of my car using a plug into the Supplementary towing socket .
 
Aug 17, 2019
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Thanks for the replys i have a 100w truma solar panel on the roof we try not to watch to much tv in the winter months only a couple of hours maybe in the evenings but granted there was'nt much sun over the new year but we never seemed to have problems in our older van with the heating in the van comeing from the gas fire but our brand new van comes with blown air heating and someone on the rally said it use's a hell of a lot of power from the battery wish i'd have chooen aldi heating now instead of blown air
 
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On occasions, I used to have a second battery which I charged in the boot of my car using a plug into the Supplementary towing socket .

That's interesting Prof - my Dad used to do that with his 'van, but I thought I'd read somewhere that that wasn't considered a good idea nowadays because car boots aren't appropriately vented for any gasses from the battery - is my brain making that up? I'd be interested to know, partly because I plan for us to do a lot more off-grid this year, and partly because I'm about to install a charging point in the boot for Mrs Gozza's mobility scooter, so I could put in a suitable connector for caravan spare battery charging at the same time while I have the trim off!
 
Nov 6, 2005
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That's interesting Prof - my Dad used to do that with his 'van, but I thought I'd read somewhere that that wasn't considered a good idea nowadays because car boots aren't appropriately vented for any gasses from the battery - is my brain making that up? I'd be interested to know, partly because I plan for us to do a lot more off-grid this year, and partly because I'm about to install a charging point in the boot for Mrs Gozza's mobility scooter, so I could put in a suitable connector for caravan spare battery charging at the same time while I have the trim off!
It may not be difficult to route the battery vent hose through an existing grommet in the boot floor - most cars have ventilation extractor vents in the boot area, hidden behind trim panels, so should be well ventilated anyway.
 
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One thing to do is make sure all your internal light bulbs are changed to LED's. Incandescent 12V bulbs are an electrical waste... I had a sailing boat until a couple of years ago and converted all the interior and navigation lights to LEDs and it took the worry away of the domestic batteries going flat (i.e. less than 50% charge)...

The boat had a compressor cool box as well, and I didn't even have to worry when that was on if we were away from mains power... MInd you I did have a 360AH battery bank, and a 300W solar array to keep the charge level up. The batteries were all AGM and I'd never go back to traditional or sealed Lead Acid...
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Gel batteries don't perform as well as AGM in cold conditions - many built-in chargers won't properly charge Gel or AGM - just stick with EFB lead-acid.
We have an AGM battery in our caravan and have no issues even though sometimes the voltage drops down to 12.2v as it recovers quick quickly. Our charger handles both LA or AGM no issue.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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That's interesting Prof - my Dad used to do that with his 'van, but I thought I'd read somewhere that that wasn't considered a good idea nowadays because car boots aren't appropriately vented for any gasses from the battery - is my brain making that up? I'd be interested to know, partly because I plan for us to do a lot more off-grid this year, and partly because I'm about to install a charging point in the boot for Mrs Gozza's mobility scooter, so I could put in a suitable connector for caravan spare battery charging at the same time while I have the trim off!
Roger answered before I read your post, but I had the battery strapped in a dedicated secured box which I did vent to the outside. Please note I used the extrenal 7S socket to provide the charging current.
 
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I'm about to install a charging point in the boot for Mrs Gozza's mobility scooter, so I could put in a suitable connector for caravan spare battery charging at the same time while I have the trim off!
If I remember correctly one would need to checked the amp of the 12v socket. I am unsure but someone with better knowledge can update you better than myself regarding the vehicle perhaps having a Smart alternator. I am not sure if you get a constant 12v supply to the socket and it may need to be wired in directly. Just a thought?
 
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... someone on the rally said it use's a hell of a lot of power from the battery wish i'd have chooen aldi heating now instead of blown air
As always it depends on how you use it. Alde heating also uses 12V power to power the water pimp and control systems . According to Leisure shop direct:

https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/t...urrent-does-the-alde-3020-heating-system-draw

The Alde 3200 unit will draw up to 1A 12V dc. This is very similar to the conventional Truma TEB fans fitted to 3000/5000 series gas heaters. so in practice there isn't going to be much difference in 12V power consumption.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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If you do a lot of off grid camping then why not consider a lithium battery? Not cheap, but can recharge from your 100w solar panel although you may need to change the controller to a MPPT controller.

Not sure about the charger, but some can recharge a lithium battery. You could fit an inverter to power units like TV, laptops etc but I would not consider an inverter for a microwave or fridge although it can be done.

Lastly if you use a metered pitch, you can keep down your consumption by using the lithium and inverter instead of EHU keeping the EHU for microwave and fridge.

Not a cheaper solution, but if going off grid a lot it may be worth it.
 
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If you do a lot of off grid camping then why not consider a lithium battery? Not cheap, but can recharge from your 100w solar panel although you may need to change the controller to a MPPT controller.

Not sure about the charger, but some can recharge a lithium battery. You could fit an inverter to power units like TV, laptops etc but I would not consider an inverter for a microwave or fridge although it can be done.

Lastly if you use a metered pitch, you can keep down your consumption by using the lithium and inverter instead of EHU keeping the EHU for microwave and fridge.

Not a cheaper solution, but if going off grid a lot it may be worth it.
Thats all we do mostly off grid looked at lithium batterys but your talking middle to high hundreds £ the charger is a MPPT i'v got
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Thats all we do mostly off grid looked at lithium batterys but your talking middle to high hundreds £ the charger is a MPPT i'v got
I think the average price for a lithium 100ah is about £550 depending on brand however you can go completely off grid with no sunshine for several days.

If they were about £400 for a 100ah we would seriously consider having one fitted depending on whether the charger can recharge it. I cannot really see an issue with recharging as apparently you can drop in the 12v lithium battery without issues.
 
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If I remember correctly one would need to checked the amp of the 12v socket. I am unsure but someone with better knowledge can update you better than myself regarding the vehicle perhaps having a Smart alternator. I am not sure if you get a constant 12v supply to the socket and it may need to be wired in directly. Just a thought?
It's a Jeep so I don't think it's got a smart anything! The power direct from the battery to the 7S socket runs through the boot, so I was planning to tap in to that. The scooter manufacturer supplies a charger which plugs into a cigarette lighter socket and is fused at 10 amps, the 7S power lead is fused at 20 amps. Obviously to be safe I wouldn't have it plugged in while the caravan was plugged in!

EDIT
Sorry, just to add, the power socket I will probably take into the permanently live line, but I do know that if I'm going to fit a leisure battery charger in the boot it needs to come from the line controlled by the split charge relay!
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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It's a Jeep so I don't think it's got a smart anything! The power direct from the battery to the 7S socket runs through the boot, so I was planning to tap in to that. The scooter manufacturer supplies a charger which plugs into a cigarette lighter socket and is fused at 10 amps, the 7S power lead is fused at 20 amps. Obviously to be safe I wouldn't have it plugged in while the caravan was plugged in!
We have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and it has a Smart alternator, but no idea regarding the charging the scooter. I did look into it at one time, but decided it was not worth the cost or the bother as it would take a day's or more driving just to partially recharge the scooter. A 2 - 3 hour trip hardly charges the scooter so you need to do your maths regarding charging the scooter from the 12v socket in the Jeep.
 
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I think the average price for a lithium 100ah is about £550 depending on brand however you can go completely off grid with no sunshine for several days.

If they were about £400 for a 100ah we would seriously consider having one fitted depending on whether the charger can recharge it. I cannot really see an issue with recharging as apparently you can drop in the 12v lithium battery without issues.
Surely if the battery is a 100ah you will only get the same amount of power out of it, wether it is a LiPo gel or lead acid, or NiCad, the only difference is the weight and size of the actual battery. Or am I total wrong
 
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Surely if the battery is a 100ah you will only get the same amount of power out of it, wether it is a LiPo gel or lead acid, or NiCad, the only difference is the weight and size of the actual battery. Or am I total wrong
I guess it is about the useable power, with a lithium you can discharge to about 5%, if you did that with the other types you would kill the battery.
 
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Is there any 110ah battery which would last 5 days in mid winter with extended use of lights, heating and a couple of hours of TV a day (ie the usage mentioned by Plug).

Our 2019 van seems much more power hungry than its 2014 predecessor, lights everywhere, fan on the oven etc etc

If I was Plug I'd just stick with what I have and use of the genny as required during socially acceptable times.
 
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My banner 110aH died in September. I replaced it with LiFePo. This one but with Bluetooth monitoring. I picked it for the light weight (10kg saving over Lead acid) and the higher capacity (because it can be discharged deeper) is a happy side effect.



12V LiFePO4 Battery 100Ah, Lithium Batteries with 100A BMS, Rechargeable Deep Cycle, widely used for Trolling Motor, Marine, Camper, RV, Solar Power, Off Grid, Lawn Mower, Household Appliances https://amzn.eu/d/hF7v0ef
 

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Surely if the battery is a 100ah you will only get the same amount of power out of it, wether it is a LiPo gel or lead acid, or NiCad, the only difference is the weight and size of the actual battery. Or am I total wrong

That as you imply is what 100AH or any quoted AH value for a "12volt" battery is, the specification of the amount of energy it holds.
Having said that is what it holds, holding, and the ability to yield though are not the same as what it ought to be asked to provided and around those subjects there are large differences, technology to technology, product to product.
The sensible amount of what energy they hold to what they ought to be used to provide being the Achillies heel of lead acid batteries in general. Typically, a LA vehicle starter battery, whilst able to supply a high momentary cranking current is quickly damaged by being asked to provide much of the overall energy it holds; I would hazard a figure of draining it by around just 30% draining frequently becomes quite life shortening.
Comparatively, a good [ as real not simply labelled] traction or leisure battery, then the figure moves to about a 50% drain as a sensible usage level to limit the amount taken.
Really super, and mega expensive traction batteries can yield a bit more, but the limit never gets near what the battery holding value states. Unlike starter batteries, typically traction batteries are more easily damaged by providing high momentary engine cranking currents; there are offerings that try to do both duties.

Here the Lithium based technologies score on two fronts, one they can yield more of what they hold without damage, and that damage is not so damaging, nor the time left drained as damaging.

My own opinion is that "the jury is out" about the actual levels the various lithium technologies ought to yield of their held capacity, it's certainly better than the LA equivalents, and they seem able to provide both the high cranking current, and low current roles.
I am personally still unsure quite the damage level a deep drain causes, or in contrast to LA how damaging actually fully charging is. My e-bike, though of 2016 vintage the charging guidance is to work between 80% fully charged and 20% left, plus don't store, fully charged and if over a month charge to only 60%.
If these figures, the 80% to 20% are correct it gives the usable as 60%, but with the proviso of the damage for the over draining occasions being far less of a life limiting impact than with the LA battery.

I accept 2016 is a lifetime ago, and in the 7 years both the technology and level of understanding of lithium-based batteries could well have developed.
If and when I need a new caravan or motorhome I don't doubt I will go the lithium route, but with kit specifically aligned to match it, not as of now where I would fit a lithium with mains and solar charging that is for LA, Gell.
My Gell lasted 11 years of nearly all off grid caravanning, but was always on charge in storage and generally not used to power the mover. [I keep a traction battery at home for doing that higher current mover use].
So come change time I replaced like with like.
 
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Surely if the battery is a 100ah you will only get the same amount of power out of it, wether it is a LiPo gel or lead acid, or NiCad, the only difference is the weight and size of the actual battery. Or am I total wrong
I never said otherwise so unsure of your question?
 
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I think the average price for a lithium 100ah is about £550 depending on brand however you can go completely off grid with no sunshine for several days.

If they were about £400 for a 100ah we would seriously consider having one fitted depending on whether the charger can recharge it. I cannot really see an issue with recharging as apparently you can drop in the 12v lithium battery without issues.
You still only have 100ah so what's the point?
 
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