Going off grid.

[Hutch]

As per the thread title, we have decided because of the lack of spaces recently on pitches at weekend we might try going off grid. I stupidly sold a 100 watt, briefcase, solar panel, many years ago. And I don't want to buy another one "yet".
My question how low do you let your battery go before replacing it with another one,
My present battery is a 110 ampere, sealed, silver cadmium wet battery. And I also have a 90 ampere AGM, battery available.
My caravan needs 12 volts to run the fridge on gas as does the water heater, and the central power control panel. For now just thinking of summer use. Winter will be fully serviced pitch's.
T in A.

 

[Anseo]

Hutch, this information may be useful.

A guide to AGM Batteries

As a guide a flooded lead acid battery should not be taken below 50% of capacity (12.2v is as low as I ever go).

AGM's can be taken lower, but I suggest that 12v is the absolute maximum on a good battery. A lot depends on the quality of the AGM in the first place, some brands claim you can go lower.

AGM's require a higher voltage charge than most caravan onboard chargers supply, AGM requires 14.6v – 14.8v, but you can obviate major damage by regularly (say after every trip) putting your AGM on a suitable smart charger.

Monitoring discharge can be a PITA given the limited accuraccy of the on-board control panel, I find myself having to regularly revert to using the multimeter if not using MPPT and remote monitoring.

A small and realtively inexpensive 'portable' 100w solar panel with a basic PWM controller can be a great asset and with minimum setup and hassle.

As expected it depends on how much energy you use, drinking and playing board games and just chatting uses the least amount of electrical power .

 

[Buckman]

Have you thought of using a lithium battery? Due to many sites going metered, it may be a worthwhile investment in the future. See HERE.

 

[JTQ]

My caravan needs 12 volts to run the fridge on gas as does the water heater, and the central power control panel. For now just thinking of summer use

With that very limited weekend duration "ask" I don't see you ever needing to stress either battery, assuming the batteries are healthy and you start with them well filled. Killers IMO are the like of TVs, halogen lighting, automotive type radios and space heating pumps/fans, none of which appear in your listing.

The depth of discharge and the damage it does depends very much on the "quality", reflected in designed cycles, of those batteries, duration discharged, neither linear in impact, and how kindly you recover them.
Plus, it is exceedingly difficult to measure the true SoC, and that if based on volts gets so much harder whilst any loading is, or has been recently present. Add to that complexity, the alloying in the lead and battery build varies the voltage vs SoC characteristics.

The guidance given is as sound as any, with just the proviso that the deeper and longer the much more damaging on longevity it will be

 

[Buckman]

On some other forums people have had the Lithium battery fitted and used a MPPT solar panel controller with a Victron inverter as apparently they are the most efficient. Probably take 4 - 5 years to breakeven, but you can transfer the battery, controller and inverter to your next caravan.

 

[Hutch]

Thanks lads for the answers, There is a small Cl near Stoke Bruerne, near to us where I can "test out" my batteries. I did go off grid overnight once in StAndrews and the water pump was fine for a shower for both of us next day. There is a pub with a Cl not far away that I should try out, off grid and if I need to, connect to the ehu.
Buckman, I am not interested in spending lots of money on lithium batteries and solar panels, for say 3 trips off grid in the summer.
As soon as the summer is over the availability of pitches will become more available again for a week or 10 days, we don't plan ahead to go away .

 

[Buckman]

Thanks lads for the answers, There is a small Cl near Stoke Bruerne, near to us where I can "test out" my batteries. I did go off grid overnight once in StAndrews and the water pump was fine for a shower for both of us next day. There is a pub with a Cl not far away that I should try out, off grid and if I need to, connect to the ehu.
Buckman, I am not interested in spending lots of money on lithium batteries and solar panels, for say 3 trips off grid in the summer.
As soon as the summer is over the availability of pitches will become more available again for a week or 10 days, we don't plan ahead to go away .

I was thinking more in terms of when pitches on most sites become metered at 35p or more a unit and CLs also increasing their prices substantially. TBH CLs that do not want to install metering may find it easier to simply shut shop to save costs.

 

[Hutch]

When we have stayed on metered pitchs, although a couple of years ago, we didn't find it that expensive, I don't think the prices of electricity increasing will affect my caravanning. We don't use the big high cost sites, nor do we go for the cheapest sites around

 

[Buckman]

When we have stayed on metered pitchs, although a couple of years ago, we didn't find it that expensive, I don't think the prices of electricity increasing will affect my caravanning. We don't use the big high cost sites, nor do we go for the cheapest sites around

I forgot about the Safefil refillable gas bottle as that is a great help if going off grid a lot. Unfortunately for me, OH likes her TV which restricts us somewhat to sites with EHU.

 

[JTQ]

I was thinking more in terms of when pitches on most sites become metered at 35p or more a unit and CLs also increasing their prices substantially. TBH CLs that do not want to install metering may find it easier to simply shut shop to save costs.

I can't see choosing to go solar, with lithium and MPPT tracking technologies can realistically be a comparable costed alternative to paying for a metered EHU, even at today's going energy costs.

We start with not comparing anything like for like with 3.6Kw on hook throughout 24 hours.

What a modest solar system can do is provide a camping alternative for those whose camping style does not need large amounts of electrical energy.
Albeit as pointed out, to keep the fridge going and hot water on tap it does mean using more LPG.

 

[Anseo]

Hutch, just a thought (thanks to GafferBill).

A 600w inverter attached to your car battery and then attached to your battery charger to top up your leisure battery if power gets low.

I have such a setup and although I carry it with me I have not had reason to use it yet.

Of course you cannot drain your car battery too much, but in a pinch you could get by nicely as GafferBill has proved.

 

[Hutch]

I forgot about the Safefil refillable gas bottle as that is a great help if going off grid a lot. Unfortunately for me, OH likes her TV which restricts us somewhat to sites with EHU.

I am not intending to do a lot of off grid stuff, just maybe 3 days locally, during the day it would be just the fridge running on gas, then first thing in the morning the water heater, for our showers. In the summer evening it would be outside with a beer and wine, so not a great amount of power being used.
Anseo, I like the idea of the inverter from the car, so I could charge a battery when we go out in the car, I have a small generator that I could use to power a charger, providing it doesn't annoy anyone.

 

[DaveA1]

Have through the years of caravanning have, (not often) used commercial sites, which in our early days, only very few had EHU's. Certainly not CLs and never had a problem with flat batteries, as I remember.
So looking at the kit needed above, how did we manage,


Use EHU Now on CLs

 

[Gafferbill]

Hutch......can't explain my system on a forum as it is bespoke to my towcar and complicated.
One of the reasons I have a 22 year old tow car and don't want to change!!
For 2 to 3 days off grid with a plentiful supply of gas as a given, all you need is a good 110 battery in your caravan, fully charged on leaving. Plus if your car has a descent size battery, buy yourself and extension cable to connect 13 pin socket to caravan lead which enables you to take about 25% out of the car battery every time it has been fully recharged by driving off site on a trip.
You will need to be able to monitor the state of the car battery to avoid to much of a discharge.
Cheap digital battery state monitors that fit in the cigarette lighter socket are good for this.

 

[Hutch]

Hutch......can't explain my system on a forum as it is bespoke to my towcar and complicated.
One of the reasons I have a 22 year old tow car and don't want to change!!
For 2 to 3 days off grid with a plentiful supply of gas as a given, all you need is a good 110 battery in your caravan, fully charged on leaving. Plus if your car has a descent size battery, buy yourself and extension cable to connect 13 pin socket to caravan lead which enables you to take about 25% out of the car battery every time it has been fully recharged by driving off site on a trip.
You will need to be able to monitor the state of the car battery to avoid to much of a discharge.
Cheap digital battery state monitors that fit in the cigarette lighter socket are good for this.

Thanks Bill, I think I understand the set up, sounds easy enough to set up, I spotted a chap at Houghton mills doing very similar, I should have asked him about it . That's given me another option to think about. 👍

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Off grid is our preferred choice of caravan sites.
Safefill 10kg bottle with a small calor propane bottle as backup and the BBQ.
Battery is a 115 AH lead acid. Charging is taken care of with 2 suitcase style solar panels, 1 x 100 watt + 1 x 50 watt. I set them up so they make best use of the light as the day progresses without having to go out & keep realigning them.
We can easily watch TV (24" Cello on 12 volts) for 2 to 3 hours a day.
Battery is normally back up to full charge by 10.30 AM.
We can easily go several weeks off grid with no problems though we sometimes have to have a good look around to get the Safefill topped up.

 

[Beachball]

Some years ago we use go on fields with the caravan club cl looking out to sea we use the socket on the car and we manage in them days but now we like service pitches so i hope it works for you

 

[Dustydog]

Hutch,
Is your pump onboard or a submersible? The latter takes just under 3 amps , say 36 watts. The wattage on your fridge I am sure is very low too.
Our caravans were designed to run off grid. Bar heavy drainage items I doubt you will have any problems. Watch TV on your IPad and charge up in the Pub🍺🍺

 

[Anseo]

I am not intending to do a lot of off grid stuff, just maybe 3 days locally, during the day it would be just the fridge running on gas, then first thing in the morning the water heater, for our showers. In the summer evening it would be outside with a beer and wine, so not a great amount of power being used.
Anseo, I like the idea of the inverter from the car, so I could charge a battery when we go out in the car, I have a small generator that I could use to power a charger, providing it doesn't annoy anyone.

Souds like you already have the problem solved with the generator Hutch .

I have never been denied using a generator, out of courtesy I do always enquire first, many people require to use them for medical equipment and to top up their battery reserves, the sites obviously know this and are very acommodating, it's no skin off their nose to be friendly and helpful.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

Hutch, we have a generator, haven't used it on 'sites', cls etc for years now. Found out many moons ago that using it on sites created alot of friction and animosity amongst other guests, wasn't worth the hassle. Last few years emergency use at home only. Did hear of 'some' being sabotaged years gone by. Apparently they don't run on pee!

 

[Hutch]

Hutch, we have a generator, haven't used it on 'sites', cls etc for years now. Found out many moons ago that using it on sites created alot of friction and animosity amongst other guests, wasn't worth the hassle. Last few years emergency use at home only. Did hear of 'some' being sabotaged years gone by. Apparently they don't run on pee!

The generator bought from Aldi 10 years ago is about 30cc, fairly quiet, but could be annoying, so just another thought. For me this is really a paperwork exercise but could be interesting, Mrs H 's hair drier hooked up to a generator at 11 pm prior to going to the pub. . OMG.

 

[Hutch]

On some other forums people have had the Lithium battery fitted and used a MPPT solar panel controller with a Victron inverter as apparently they are the most efficient. Probably take 4 - 5 years to breakeven, but you can transfer the battery, controller and inverter to your next caravan.

Thanks for the thoughts, but our Coachman will be our last caravan, we are hardly using it now, both 70 years old, Mrs H, is hobbling , strange though , quicker to the pub than back. So looking at more favourable sites for ourselfs. Not into buying Safefil bottles, of large solar panels, just using what we have, and maybe inverter from the car as Bill sugests to recharge the battery.
Mostly use EHU, this off grid is a pipe dream for me really, for 3 days max.

 

[Kevin M]

Like your thinking Hutch.
We have, for the last few years, gone on fully serviced pitches. We grabbed a last minute weekend away just and could only get a standard pitch. Imagine, no direct water point or waste point or tv hook up...back to ( fairly) basics and we loved it.
We have a week away in the new forest in a week or so then going to check out some CLs for the autumn.

Kev

 

[Hutch]

Like your thinking Hutch.
We have, for the last few years, gone on fully serviced pitches. We grabbed a last minute weekend away just and could only get a standard pitch. Imagine, no direct water point or waste point or tv hook up...back to ( fairly) basics and we loved it.
We have a week away in the new forest in a week or so then going to check out some CLs for the autumn.

Kev

Yes thats what we have done, before retirment we went to France every 12 weeks for a month, all planned in winter but summer just went, . Now it is fit in the caravanning between hospital, visits etc. Locally ( 50 miles) we have , non ehu pitches available towards the end of week. We dont book 2 month ahead, to much unpredictability, for us. Maybe we should but that is just not us..
The dog loves getting out in the snow early mornings from the caravan, in the winter.

 

[Boff]

With a decent battery you should be able to manage a weekend without hookup. My avatar shows the gas bottles the one on the right is frozen And you can just see a layer of snow on the a frame. We do have a solar panel fitted but I don’t think it was doing a lot because a) it was December and b) it was covered in a layer of snow. We somehow survived.