Hi, newbie with towing weight question.

[HNB]

Hi everyone, hope all is well.

I'm not new new to caravanning, iv been doing it for last 3/4 years and me,wife and kids love it.

We are expecting our 4th child and are going to look at upgrading from our old shabby damp 5 berth and we would like to get the bailey ranger series 6 540/6 (tripple bunk at the back).

The gt60 version having a MTPLM 1350kg (miro 1124kg) and the normal version having a MTPLM of 1306kg (miro 1036kg)

The car i have is a 2007 vauxhall zafira 1.9cdti (120),and has a max tow weight of 1300kg.

I dont want to change my zafira as its a low milage diesel and iv had her 2 1/2 years and spent a bit of money on her keeping her mechanicaly tip top)

Now the question is, will i get away with the normal version 540/6 with the MTPLM 1306kg even though my car is 1300kg?

I know they recommend 85% weight of car, the caravan will remain mainly empty, most prob just bedding inside, rest will be put in the car, most prob roof box and the lil bit left in back of car. also been aware of not overloading the cars weight.

Oh and i passed in 2002 so can only go max of 3500kg atm but i do hold my psv and hgv class 2 licence and am looking to be doing the c+e soon to also upgrade my car, so thats no bother there lol.

all info and help is really appreciated.

thanks,H

 

[HNB]

or would i even get away with the gt60 version 1350kg...been 50kg over the cars 1300kg tow limit?

thanks

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

A car's max tow limit is legally binding, you cannot go over it. Will a Zafira carry 6 people and luggage for caravanning without putting anything in the van??

 

[HNB]

can you not down plate it by like 6kg? or 50kg?

or i wouldnt even get away with it been just 6kg over, even though the caravan wouldnt weigh that.

i would have 1 seat up at back so there is the room next to it, plus a roof box. so hopefully should be ok.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you for your question.

There are two threads to your question. The first relates to what you are allowed to drive by the terms of your licence. Cat B entitlements limits you to an out fit of combined MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) of 3500kg. Until you have cat BE that is a hard limit. However I believe your 2007 1.9 cdti Zaffra has a MAM of 2180kg so by adding the MAM of the caravan 1350 gives a combined MAM of 3530kg

You need Cat BE or B+e to drive your proposed outfit.

The second thread relates to the ability of the car to pull the caravan. The car is limited by specification to a maximum trailer weight of only 1300kg. That means the trailers actual weight , not its MTPLM. Provded the trailer when weighed does not exceed 1300kg (for example not fully loaded) it is legal for the car to tow it.

 

[LizziePope]

Hi HNB and a warm welcome to our forum. There are some useful replies there. You might also like to watch our outfit matching video.

 

[Raywood]

I have not checked the weights of the Zafira but if the Prof has correctly identified the MAM for your car then you cannot tow without the B+E licence, check your registration document as the weights sometimes vary from the published figures..
Again the caravan will be illegal to tow. Whether you would be prosecuted for that minor difference I cannot say, nor can I be sure how your car insurers would view it, so it is not wise to go ahead. To be frank with your car you will have difficulty finding six berth caravans you can tow, you might check out Lunar but not sure what they produced about the right age so cannot be sure.

 

[HNB]

Thank you for the useful replies.

So basically,iv got to get rid of my zaf,i was considering the cdti 150 or vxr,most prob be the latter though,both boasting more then 1500kg towing limits,the cdti slightly more then the vxr.

As for my licence entitlement,i will should have it upgraded before i go ahead with a purchase as going to be doing my c+e soon.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Raywood]

I am afraid I cannot see any other sensible alternative. I could not see any six berths currently available that are under 1300 kg but you are looking at the second hand market so there might be something there but I cannot think what it is. Most manufacturers did make a lightweight model like the Ranger but getting below their weight was pretty rare.
I did try a site that finds matches for tow cars but it was not working.

 

[Raywood]

Just checked the CC website and it had a few possibles but mostly too old. It shows the 2008 series five Ranger as 1300 MTPLM so if you can find that it would just work. The only others are Caravelair which are very rare and some Avondale Darts but I would be wary of 2007 and 2008 models as they have a reputation for leaking. You have to be a member for the full service but there is a smaller one on http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/choosing-a-vehicle/match-your-car-and-caravan.

 

[Martin24]

You don't say how old your other three are but be wary of the triple bunk layout. It may seem very practical but if you intend to keep the van for any length of time you may well find the the children feeling very hemmed in. I have heard a lot of grumbles about the bottom bunk at different times. Most manufacturers have moved away from this layout now. You may find it useful to look at one of the layouts we used to have on a single axle, this is the end fixed bunks and side dinette. A little more bed making but more spacious when in the bunks. As the children get older (we found from 10-12 ish) most bunks are a no go from the access point of view and at that point the whole thing may need looking at again. Pretty much all manufacturers did this layout at some point. I do wonder, if you plan on keeping the next car a while a full size people mover may be a better proposition from a weight and towing point of view.
Good luck.

 

[HNB]

I think the safest option is going to be another car. We are set on the bailey tripple bunk type as we feel the layout and styling is perfect for our next purchase.

Thanks for replies

 

[HNB]

At the point of when we will get another van the kids will be 10 8 4 and few month.
I had even looked at the 550/6 bailey had on offer before.
We are planning on keeping the van for quite a while,so the eldest could move into the dinete bed at the side possibly.
i know it sounds daft but its quite a few months off purchasing the new van,but the reasons for the questions is because im able to change my car now if i like,so trying to forward plan.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you for the useful replies.

So basically,iv got to get rid of my zaf,i was considering the cdti 150 or vxr,most prob be the latter though,both boasting more then 1500kg towing limits,the cdti slightly more then the vxr.

As for my licence entitlement,i will should have it upgraded before i go ahead with a purchase as going to be doing my c+e soon.

Thanks again for the replies.

Hello again, HNB

The car is not necessary the problem here. Its your licence categories. Unless you have cat BE of B+e then its the combined maximum weights of both the car and caravan that exceed your licence limit. There is no tolerance on this limit even a combined MAM of 3501kg is over the licence category limit.

If you drive this outfit without BE or B+e you are driving without a licence.

Now the MAM is the maximum weights not the kerb weights so if the caravan you are looking at is MAM or MTPLM 1350kg that means the tow vehicles Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) or MAM must be 2150kg or less.

Now I don't know exactly which vehicles you are considering but I suspect if the maximum towed weight limits are bigger than the Zaffira its highly likely the MAM of the vehicles will also be bigger and thus just as inadmissible as the Zaffira

Your best bet is to get your BE (by getting your CE) then you are covered BUT you must not fully load the caravan to keep it within the cars maximum braked towing limit of 1300kg

 

[seth1]

Plenty of adria 6 berth at 1300kg.As John says keep the weight down in the van.Simple.

 

[HNB]

Yet again...thank you for all this help.

I have learnt stuff i never knew lol...

Checked my cars weights on vin...

2195kg max permisable vehicle gross weight and 3570kg max permisable gross train weight

 

[seth1]

Is the car a six seater?

 

[HNB]

7 seater. Only 6 seats will be occupied though.

 

[chrisn7]

In your initial post you seemed to be relying heavily on loading the car, to avoid overloading the van. Others have clarified most points, but car manufactures sometimes specify the maximum weight of luggage in the boot to avoid overloading the rear axle with a full complement of rear seat passengers.

Now whatever that limit is will be reduced by the caravan noseweight, and can leave you with surprisingly little payload in the boot. If luggage is not mentioned in the handbook it is still necessary not to exceed the individual car axle weights which will be specified

 

[HNB]

I was thinking of a roof box to mainly put clothing in etc

 

[ProfJohnL]

Yet again...thank you for all this help.

I have learnt stuff i never knew lol...

Checked my cars weights on vin...

2195kg max permisable vehicle gross weight and 3570kg max permisable gross train weight

Hello again HNB.

This is worse news as it reduces your licence capacity further such that the caravans MTPLM (MAM) must not exceed 1305kg.

Your best bet is to get your CE (which also gives you BE) extended licence.

 

[seth1]

I cant see a problem here as long as the trailer wieght is kept to 1300kg.It might be 100% but as we are reminded its only a recomendation.Load the van and wiegh it,forget the mtplm as you hopefully wont load as high as it.If the van and car was empty you wouldnt have a problem so just take the bare minimum.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

forget the mtplm as you hopefully wont load as high as it.If the van and car was empty you wouldnt have a problem so just take the bare minimum.

What do you define as the bare minimum of a family with 4 kids, one of which is a new born baby?? hmy:

 

[seth1]

Good question,put it like this do you need a fresh set of clothes everyday?

What does the baby need?

1, a sterilizer.
2,bottles
3,microwave
4,clothes.
5,nappys

 

[Hutch]

Hi, HNB, as The Prof says, unless you are going to tow your van behind your BIG truck, you must get your BE licence,, which is not hard, that way we can meet up with you and family on some nice sites. .
Hutch.