Hot water.

[Grey13]

No not the normal "hot water" most guys are familiar with but the stuff comming out the tap. Just watching the misus washing dishes and boy the water is hot. 60+ IMO no need. 40 would be just fine.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Not sure why you have posted this in new members?

But there is a good reason for having water at 60 to 70C in caravans.

The main reason is because of limited space and weight, it's not practical to have a larger heater that holds more water but at a lower temperature. he ability to have a smaller quantity of very hot water that can be diluted down using the cold water from an external source that allows enough hot water for something like a shower.

The other reason is that water that does not get hotter than about 40C has a much greater chance of harbouring unwanted bacteria, so the hotter it can get the fewer nasties can survive. The design standards for caravan water heaters set a maximum temperature for water leaving the appliance of about 70C.

 

[Grey13]

Just curious, how come only the hot water pipes etc are safe at 60 but all the cold don,t get that treatment?

 

[Parksy]

Not sure why you have posted this in new members? .........
.

Please don't be concerned about which particular message board a post appears on Prof.
Quite often the software defaults automatically to the New Members message board no matter which one is selected by the O P.
I'm aware of this and I usually tidy these things up at weekends when I have a bit more time with which to do it

 

[Craigyoung]

Grey , I agree , it is hot as ( when on a CL ) we do the dishes in our van I sometimes can't put my hands in the water as it's too hot !

 

[Hutch]

It's a well known fact that our wonderful wifes can stand the water at hotter temperatures, than the men, so therefore they should do the washing up. .

 

[Craigyoung]

It's a well known fact that our wonderful wifes can stand the water at hotter temperatures, than the men, so therefore they should do the washing up. .

She obviously wasn't looking over your shoulder when you typed your last post then or I think you would have getting a stern clip on the head !!

 

[DaveA1]

Had a Legionnaires risk assessment done on our factory water system at work a few years back. At the hot water taps, say in the toilets, the temperature had to be, if I remember, above 55 degs and reach that temperature within a time limit. Needless to say we had complaints about the water, even though there were plenty of waning signs.
In the caravan hand book there is an instruction to run the water heater at maximum, for a while. I do this when I first hook up.
Also run shower at full temperature, before first use.

 

[otherclive]

Had a Legionnaires risk assessment done on our factory water system at work a few years back. At the hot water taps, say in the toilets, the temperature had to be, if I remember, above 55 degs and reach that temperature within a time limit. Needless to say we had complaints about the water, even though there were plenty of waning signs.
In the caravan hand book there is an instruction to run the water heater at maximum, for a while. I do this when I first hook up.
Also run shower at full temperature, before first use.

Our water heater has two electrical power settings but only one temperature setting, which comes through far too hot to bear your hands under.

 

[DaveA1]

Had a Legionnaires risk assessment done on our factory water system at work a few years back. At the hot water taps, say in the toilets, the temperature had to be, if I remember, above 55 degs and reach that temperature within a time limit. Needless to say we had complaints about the water, even though there were plenty of waning signs.
In the caravan hand book there is an instruction to run the water heater at maximum, for a while. I do this when I first hook up.
Also run shower at full temperature, before first use.

Our water heater has two electrical power settings but only one temperature setting, which comes through far too hot to bear your hands under.

I'm learning!
I have been running my heater on gas at 70 setting. ( gas has 50 and 70 settings) didn't realise electric was wattage and not temperature, shown by some squalidly lines., in the maintenance section, it dose warn you to run at 70 c "at regular intervals" But as you say it's already doing it on electric.

 

[RayS]

a real benefit is if - as we do - you use the shower in the van, you get a longer shower with the higher temperature hot water - more time to remember what you went into the cubicle to do.

 

[Hutch]

Grey get a dog, I take the dog out, the boss has a shower, washes her hair etc, maybe 10 minutes, I come back change the water barrel over so I know its not going run out, a breakfast lager then a nice long 10 minutes shower.

How long a shower are you really after. ?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just curious, how come only the hot water pipes etc are safe at 60 but all the cold don,t get that treatment?

Hello Grey.
Let me be clear, I did not say the hot water would be safe when heated to 70C, only that the raised temperature may deal with some of the nasties. The risk is there for the cold pipes as well, but the advice is to sterilise

The risk is greater with warm (not hot) water as the slightly raised temperature produces improved conditions for many nasties to begin to multiply.

 

[Anseo]

Extract from control of Legionella - Health & Safety Executive:

Legionella bacteria is commonly found in water. The bacteria multiply where temperatures are between 20-45°C and nutrients are available. The bacteria are dormant below 20°C and do not survive above 60°C.7 Mar 2019
Managing legionella in hot and cold water systems - HSE


Where hot and cold water pipes are fitted close together it is possible for the radiated heat from the hot water pipe to raise the temperature in the cold water supply pipe to a temperature that supports legionella.

Your winter drain-down of the water pipes does more than protect your pipes from the effects of frost, the drain-down is worthwhile in more ways than one.

 

[otherclive]

Extract from control of Legionella - Health & Safety Executive:

Legionella bacteria is commonly found in water. The bacteria multiply where temperatures are between 20-45°C and nutrients are available. The bacteria are dormant below 20°C and do not survive above 60°C.7 Mar 2019
Managing legionella in hot and cold water systems - HSE


Where hot and cold water pipes are fitted close together it is possible for the radiated heat from the hot water pipe to raise the temperature in the cold water supply pipe to a temperature that supports legionella.

Your winter drain-down of the water pipes does more than protect your pipes from the effects of frost, the drain-down is worthwhile in more ways than one.

Its not just the winter drain down mine is drained down each journey outwards and return.

HSE though do recognise that Legionella is caught via inhaled aerosol. Our local housing association tried to remove domestic sprinklers as they deemed them a H&S risk due to legionella. I wrote to the local paper with many references and copied the local Chief Fire Officer. the overall view was that there was no recorded case of legionella caused by sprinklers and if there had been the overall risk was far lower than being caught in a fire. Net result the sprinklers remain. I see that Elsan and other now advertise screenwash as effective against Leigionella. Well it has always been so, but again how many cases have been recorded as caused by sceenwashing. i tend to be in the car when i wash the screen and the car has pollen filters.

There's risk everywhere these days! I think sensible precautions in managing your water systems will suffice. How many think to run the domestic shower on very hot after being away on holidays?

 

[Hutch]

Extract from control of Legionella - Health & Safety Executive:

Legionella bacteria is commonly found in water. The bacteria multiply where temperatures are between 20-45°C and nutrients are available. The bacteria are dormant below 20°C and do not survive above 60°C.7 Mar 2019
Managing legionella in hot and cold water systems - HSE


Where hot and cold water pipes are fitted close together it is possible for the radiated heat from the hot water pipe to raise the temperature in the cold water supply pipe to a temperature that supports legionella.

Your winter drain-down of the water pipes does more than protect your pipes from the effects of frost, the drain-down is worthwhile in more ways than one.

Its not just the winter drain down mine is drained down each journey outwards and return.

HSE though do recognise that Legionella is caught via inhaled aerosol. Our local housing association tried to remove domestic sprinklers as they deemed them a H&S risk due to legionella. I wrote to the local paper with many references and copied the local Chief Fire Officer. the overall view was that there was no recorded case of legionella caused by sprinklers and if there had been the overall risk was far lower than being caught in a fire. Net result the sprinklers remain. I see that Elsan and other now advertise screenwash as effective against Leigionella. Well it has always been so, but again how many cases have been recorded as caused by sceenwashing. i tend to be in the car when i wash the screen and the car has pollen filters.

There's risk everywhere these days! I think sensible precautions in managing your water systems will suffice. How many think to run the domestic shower on very hot after being away on holidays?

A very good point, my wife is always telling me to "Go and have a cold Shower"
Loft tanks are the best breeding ground for bacteria, must replace our 200 gallon one for a 50 gallon one.

 

[Hutch]

Whilst working in Nigeria, we would boil a 5 gallon (UK not US gallon) for 30 minutes as the UK chemist said that some Bacteria could withstand boilin point for 15 minute. And looking at National Geographic about underwater volcanos this is true. We always boiled the water bottles to store water in.
And over these last couple of lovely weeks of warm weather, we drink at least a litre of rehydration fluid, not just water, beer and wine.

 

[otherclive]

Extract from control of Legionella - Health & Safety Executive:

Legionella bacteria is commonly found in water. The bacteria multiply where temperatures are between 20-45°C and nutrients are available. The bacteria are dormant below 20°C and do not survive above 60°C.7 Mar 2019
Managing legionella in hot and cold water systems - HSE


Where hot and cold water pipes are fitted close together it is possible for the radiated heat from the hot water pipe to raise the temperature in the cold water supply pipe to a temperature that supports legionella.

Your winter drain-down of the water pipes does more than protect your pipes from the effects of frost, the drain-down is worthwhile in more ways than one.

Its not just the winter drain down mine is drained down each journey outwards and return.

HSE though do recognise that Legionella is caught via inhaled aerosol. Our local housing association tried to remove domestic sprinklers as they deemed them a H&S risk due to legionella. I wrote to the local paper with many references and copied the local Chief Fire Officer. the overall view was that there was no recorded case of legionella caused by sprinklers and if there had been the overall risk was far lower than being caught in a fire. Net result the sprinklers remain. I see that Elsan and other now advertise screenwash as effective against Leigionella. Well it has always been so, but again how many cases have been recorded as caused by sceenwashing. i tend to be in the car when i wash the screen and the car has pollen filters.

There's risk everywhere these days! I think sensible precautions in managing your water systems will suffice. How many think to run the domestic shower on very hot after being away on holidays?

A very good point, my wife is always telling me to "Go and have a cold Shower"
Loft tanks are the best breeding ground for bacteria, must replace our 200 gallon one for a 50 gallon one.

I have similar concerns re the large loft tanks in the house we’ve recently moved into. 200 gallons letting go makes for an amazing amount of decorating after the ceilings have been replaced.

 

[Hutch]

Don't worry, 4holes
Just 4 holes punched in the ceiling panels, and 3 months drying.

 

[DaveA1]

Removed my header tank and airing cupboard tank, fitted a combi-boiler. No stored water.

 

[otherclive]

Removed my header tank and airing cupboard tank, fitted a combi-boiler. No stored water.

Thats what we've had for the last 36 years, although our first Combi did have a header tank mains fed with the ubiquitous ball ****. But it was above the boiler in the airing cupboard.