This is one of the most useful comparisons I have seen that shows how different loads, in, on, or behind an EV can affect its ultimate range.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmQJUW-VyRY
How different loads affect battery EV range.
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Thanks as that was very interesting. It would be a nice comparison if they took the same spec car with a petrol or diesel engine and did exactly the same test.
If we were ever in a position to buy an EV it would definitely be a second car and used mainly for around town which seems a waste taking into consideration the price paid.
If we were ever in a position to buy an EV it would definitely be a second car and used mainly for around town which seems a waste taking into consideration the price paid.
Basically it shows what we all know and is the main problem for those with caravans. Electrics do seem to be more affected by caravans than ICE models although I do not know why.
I do wonder if the percentage drop would be different with another model as the caravan drag is affected by that. I suspect a lower saloon or bigger SUV would give measurably different performances.
I do wonder if the percentage drop would be different with another model as the caravan drag is affected by that. I suspect a lower saloon or bigger SUV would give measurably different performances.
I posted the item becasue it is the first practical demonstration that clearly shows how much extra energy is needed to carry out the various tasks.
Whilst the video shows how these tasks affect the range of an EV. Believe it or not, exactly the same additional energy would be needed to carry out the same tasks with an ICE vehicle. It can also be extrapolated from the amount of additional energy the tasks required, and those quantities (not proportions) would apply equally to ICE vehicles with the same overall body styles.
They affect the range of EV's to a greater extent compared to ICE, because the additional energy needed represents a greater percentage of the battery capacity, than the energy contained in a typical tank full of dino juice.
Whilst the video shows how these tasks affect the range of an EV. Believe it or not, exactly the same additional energy would be needed to carry out the same tasks with an ICE vehicle. It can also be extrapolated from the amount of additional energy the tasks required, and those quantities (not proportions) would apply equally to ICE vehicles with the same overall body styles.
They affect the range of EV's to a greater extent compared to ICE, because the additional energy needed represents a greater percentage of the battery capacity, than the energy contained in a typical tank full of dino juice.
An excellent article. Proves to me , sadly, the current EVs will not suit my needs nor life style for caravanning. I am all for clean stuff and EVs but not at the present costs. Shipping gas half way round the world to fuel power stations almost defeats the prime objective. I think we are expecting something now which will not realistically be available to Everyone for at least 10/20,years.
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A relatively small percentage of our gas comes from around the world. I assume you are referring to LPG from the Middle East or Americas. Around 50% comes from UK fields in the North and Irish Seas.
“Data from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy shows UK production and imports in gigawatt hours in 2020 as follows:
UK - 438,520
Norway - 266,155
Qatar - 96,904
USA - 53,439
Russia - 24,635
Trinidad and Tobago - 11,190
Netherlands - 11,073
Belgium - 7,548
Nigeria - 3,688
Egypt - 2,040
France - 1,079
Algeria - 488”
If HMG approve exploration licences for Shetland and Nw Scotland there’s no guarantee of big finds or they may only make up for shortfalls as existing fields deplete and timescale is ??
Yes and no. According to the papers, ok doubtful , a large number of liquid gas tankers have been diverted to the U.K. instead of a China. The volumes , allegedly, are helping to halt the gas prices increase..I thought the two Shetland and the North Sea untapped new firpelds had enough oil and gas to supply the U.K. needs for 150 years. I guess it all depends who you believe and what papers you read. I can‘t validate any of it.
I accept that present EV's may not meet your expectations, however with the rate of battery development I believe we are not too far from seeing a major breakthrough that brings dual the benefits of greater range, and faster recharge times ( subject to the charge points capability).
What EV's are presently doing is showing how inefficient ICE vehicle really are. Compare the same job using a common unit such as kWh, and you can begin to see how wasteful ICE vehicles are.
To help
1L Diesel is approx. 10kWh
1L petrol is approx. 9.7kWh
1L LPG is approx. 6.9kWh
The Govenment hasn’t approved licences yet for exploration and in The Times earlier this week it reported that it could be 12 months before exploration licences were put up for bidding. COP 26 commitments seems to be a sticking point.
I think that’s a good point as in the grand scheme of things the ability to tow large weights may not feature highly in the design development. Although there are BEV cars that have a reasonabke towing capability up to 1600 kg so maybe it’s not all bad news.
However to be fair one needs to take into account the additional cost of the EV in comparison to the equivalent diesel or petrol model. The difference could be £6000 or more.
With our diesel 3.0l Jeep in the last 3 years we have done approximately 25000 miles at a cost in fuel of £5750 and that includes towing. A Skoda as above will take even longer to use +£6000 of fuel.
To my way of thinking that could make the equivalent petrol version cheaper to run overall taking into account the cost difference as for the £6000 you could probably get 50000 miles.
I’m having difficulty following your line of argument. I’ve had Mondeo 2 litreNA petrol, Saab 2.3 turbo litre petrol, Subaru 2.0 litre NA petrol and Subaru 2.0 litre turbo petrol. Some manual some auto. But the one thing in common was that all petrols suffered a far bigger percentage drop in mpg compared to Disco, Mondeo, Sorento, XC70 and Superb diesels. The small difference in price between petrol and diesel did not bridge the difference in mpg.
Not sure what you do not understand about the big price difference between an EV and the equivalent petrol version of the same brand and model? My post was nothing to do with difference between petrol & diesel.
I thought you were introducing the difference in price of the two fuels. But if you were looking to minimise your outlay why buy a petrol tow car and not a diesel. After all EU6 diesels are going to be around for a good while yet as EU7 is still in consultation. However if manufactures still offer them , or petrol, in the timescale remains to be seen. A good number of mainstream makes plan to be all electric by 2030 or earlier. A grouping have indicated they would move ICE manucture out of Europe into areas where EV isn’t viable. But the EC indicated that the makers would not be able to import ICE vehicles back into the EU beyond the cut off date.
Strange the NCC have never publicly said anything about the potential demise of their industry with EVs😉
They did in July last year. NCC Stated that if something wasn’t done it would be the death of the caravan industry. Though they did not indicate what should be done. Presumably retain the status quo. It was included in a article on the new VW electric camper van and where VW believed that by 2030 BEV would be cheaper to buy than ICE. Fir some time now there have been comments on the Forum re the significant increase in motorhomes and campervans on sites. A trend likely to continue. Also I’ve been looking at campsites for a trip in May and it’s astonishing how many “ glamping” sites have sprung up. Clearly trends in holidays may be changing amongst young people and families too. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
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On the 19th November 2020 NCC issued a statement. No idea to whom as it is not listed on any website they have.
However here’s a link to what they said. Draw your own conclusions. Do you have anything else on this Clive?
www.aboutcampbtob.eu
However here’s a link to what they said. Draw your own conclusions. Do you have anything else on this Clive?
NCC issues statement of concerns about 2030 deadline for greener vehicles in UK - Aboutcamp BtoB
The National Caravan Council (NCC) issues statement about its concerns regarding the latest deadline from the UK government for greener vehicles
www.aboutcampbtob.eu
DustyOn the 19th November 2020 NCC issued a statement. No idea to whom as it is not listed on any website they have.
However here’s a link to what they said. Draw your own conclusions. Do you have anything else on this Clive?
NCC issues statement of concerns about 2030 deadline for greener vehicles in UK - Aboutcamp BtoB
The National Caravan Council (NCC) issues statement about its concerns regarding the latest deadline from the UK government for greener vehicles
I think that NCC have addressed their concerns quite comprehensively, difficult to see how HMG can change what is underway as it is wider than just UK, and manufacturers are already planning to phase out ICE before the 2030-35 hybrid period, but that option of five extra years is always open to them, if their planning can accommodate it.
There will always be a need for vehicles capable of towing commercial trailers, horse boxes, utility company trailers etc. but this is the pick up, large SUV area and the makers must be looking at what they need to do to continue to sell vehicles. The difficult area must be the family car, where already there are some credible BEV tow cars, but at prices that may rule out ownership by families not on high incomes. But taking the longer view they could still use ICE until mainstream EV come on line, or the more expensive options come onto the used market. How fuel prices and availability move in this dynamic market is any ones guess, but it’s unlikely to benefit the ICE owner. 😟
Crikey I am persuading myself that some deja vu cruising might be required. 🛳
Okay let me try again and this time please try and forget about different fossils fuels. I should have used the term "ICE".
All I was trying to get across was the price difference of about £6000 in cost between an EV and an ICE vehicle. If you use that price difference to pay for the fuel in a ICE car, you will get a lot of mileage out of the ICE car and also about 6 or more years life out of the ICE vehicle. At that point you will probably be trading in the ICE vehicle for a newer ICE vehicle..
I had already got it. No need to repeat yourself. Thank you. Why six or more years life. What is the average lifespan for an ICE. Batteries are being given up to 15 years warranty in some cases. T&C apply.
PS edit any meaningful comparison shouldn’t just compare fuelling costs over life. There’s a myriad of other costs associated with ICE that BEV do not bear.
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I am sorry that my post may not be clear to you as my English grammar can be poor at times, but you are still missing the point I am trying to get across which has nothing to do with EV batteries, life span of vehicles etc. Let me try again.
If you buy a brand i.e. Skoda and it is an EV, that EV may cost up to or more than the equivalent ICE vehicle of the same brand. This cost difference could be up to £6000 and it will take you a number of years of motoring with an ICE vehicle before you spend £6000 on fuel.
If we then took that into account over the 3 year lifespan of an EV and the ICE vehicle, which one will be the cheaper one to run? That is the comparison I would be interested in reading about.
Hopefully you now understand what I was trying to get across and apologies for earlier confusing posts.
Where does the three year lifespan of an EV come from? Are you just talking about a three year period of ownership from new, In which case surely the EV having better residual value than an ICE needs to be considered.
Somehow I knew you were going to be picky. If you cannot work out what I was saying then no point discussing it any further.
Im sorry if you think I’m being obtuse, but surely just comparing fuel costs over a period against the difference in purchase price isn’t a valid comparison. It’s the whole life costs in the period of ownership, whether that be new cars, or pre owned ones, that are required as a basis of comparison. But I agree no point in further discussion.
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