Hi all, just returned from a weeks break with the van up in Yorkshire (Pickering) on the return journey I could not help but notice all the other combinations travelling in the opposite direction, and to my surprise 90% of the caravans were being towed by 4x4s, and what I found really fascinating is that around 80% were caravans that could have quite easily have been towed comfortably by a medium to large family saloon, and in some cases even small two berth vans, why pay over the odds fuel wise when they could save a small fortune with a more fuel efficient car that would do the job just as well, brain washed????? Or suffering from sheep syndrome.
Just an observation.
- Thread starter ProfAlGoogle
- Start date
I pick what car I want to tow with not you.
Also I can afford to tow with a 4x4,and with confidence that it will do exactly what I want it to do in complete safety.Mr Darling can tax me as much as he likes,it wont make a bit of difference.
Also I can afford to tow with a 4x4,and with confidence that it will do exactly what I want it to do in complete safety.Mr Darling can tax me as much as he likes,it wont make a bit of difference.
Damian
Moderator
Firstly lets NOT go the sarcastic route on this topic.
There is NO NEED to qualify postings with comments such as:
"brain washed????? Or suffering from sheep syndrome." or
"not to be influenced by the likes of you."
The choice of towing vehicle is purely down to the owner, it is of no concern to anyone else.
There is NO NEED to qualify postings with comments such as:
"brain washed????? Or suffering from sheep syndrome." or
"not to be influenced by the likes of you."
The choice of towing vehicle is purely down to the owner, it is of no concern to anyone else.
I have a choice of two cars when towing - either the new Honda CRV or a 2005 Honda Accord. Both have the same 2.2 cdi engine and both make very good towcars. However, there is one crucial difference, and that is the permitted noseweight which is 75kg against 100kg on the CRV. With Swift's design's making it a real juggling act to get to 75kg on a lot of their vans, it is very reasurring to know that, when I tow with the CRV I can easily tow within the correct noseweght parameters without clearing out the front locker. It is also a more comfortable car, and uses only slightly more fuel than the Accord.
I think you may have picked the wrong month to post this thread with the recent hike in road tax on 4x4's. We like many other caravanners tow with a 4x4 - our Bailey 470/4 could easily be towed with a family saloon - which I hasten to add we had in the beginning. We soon changed to the 4x4 for safety, more room, and suited our needs much better. I am sure you will be thanking us 4x4 drivers when we tow your outfit off a muddy field. Cos lets face it - in the UK it is a case of when and not if!!
I was not aware that I was influencing anybody, it matters not one jot to me what people tow with, as you quite rightly say it is down to peoples choice, I tried one myself a few years back, as at the time people were making comments such as I tow with a 4x4,and with confidence that it will do exactly what I want it to do in complete safety, so to that end I was led (a bit like sheep) in to believing I needed one, but in all honesty I did not, and I kept it for six months and went back to a large estate car. Please look at the topic heading "just an observation" Damian, I did not set out to be offensive, but if you think this is the case then please remove this post and accept my apologies
Allan & Gill you said "found really fascinating is that around 80% were caravans that could have quite easily have been towed comfortably by a medium to large family saloon".
Please provide details of a large family saloon which compares with my 2.2 diesel Honda CRV for fuel consumption and which has a nose weight limit of 100kg?
I interpret your post to mean that nobody should have a car which is MORE THAN capable of towing their particular van. You appear to have set yourselves up as some sort of regulator.
I find it absolutely astonishing that anybody who tows a caravan can lecture others about their choice of transport - pure hypocrisy. Are you one of those who wants chice for themselves but not for the plebs?
Please provide details of a large family saloon which compares with my 2.2 diesel Honda CRV for fuel consumption and which has a nose weight limit of 100kg?
I interpret your post to mean that nobody should have a car which is MORE THAN capable of towing their particular van. You appear to have set yourselves up as some sort of regulator.
I find it absolutely astonishing that anybody who tows a caravan can lecture others about their choice of transport - pure hypocrisy. Are you one of those who wants chice for themselves but not for the plebs?
We too tow with a 4x4. We did have an ABI Award Transtar towed by an Isuzu Trooper 3.1 - and yes, this could have easily been towed by a smaller car.
We now have a Bailey Senator Vermont and will be towing with a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
As my hubby has only been towing since the end of 2005 we still consider ourselves to be relative novices. He also feels a lot safer in the knowledge that he is not exceeding (or probably nowhere near) the 85% match. We also have 2 dogs so they also have to be taken into consideration, especially when travelling longer distances.
I feel it's a question of personal preference and each and every man and woman to their own!
We now have a Bailey Senator Vermont and will be towing with a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
As my hubby has only been towing since the end of 2005 we still consider ourselves to be relative novices. He also feels a lot safer in the knowledge that he is not exceeding (or probably nowhere near) the 85% match. We also have 2 dogs so they also have to be taken into consideration, especially when travelling longer distances.
I feel it's a question of personal preference and each and every man and woman to their own!
Wow, 
As I said just an observation, 12 & 14 ft caravans behind a 4x4 just seemed a bit of an over kill "in my honest opinion" I am in no way knocking 4x4 drivers, that would be a bit rich having owned one myself, and I am just as amused by some of the heated replies, in some respects you can be your own worst enemy.
As I said just an observation, 12 & 14 ft caravans behind a 4x4 just seemed a bit of an over kill "in my honest opinion" I am in no way knocking 4x4 drivers, that would be a bit rich having owned one myself, and I am just as amused by some of the heated replies, in some respects you can be your own worst enemy.If only an "observation", why not just observe and leave it at that. No comment required!Wow,
Personally, after owning two E-class Mercedes which were all over the road in the snow, I decided to go down the 4*4 route and have no regrets.
Allan & Gill, You are your own worst enemy. You tow a caravan with a big estate car yet you feel free to lecture others. Why do you need a caravan that is so big it needs a large estate car to tow it? As you say there are loads of 12 foot two berths that you could tow with a 1600 saloon so why not have one?
You tow a large slab white box around, which you do not even need to tax or MOT, and yet somehow you want to appear superior.
You tow a large slab white box around, which you do not even need to tax or MOT, and yet somehow you want to appear superior.
We tow a Bailey Ranger 500/5 with a 4x4 Daihatsu Fourtrack. We were involved in an accident whilst towing a few years ago and the rescue crew which came to our assitsance reckoned that if we were towing with a car it would have probabley taken the car over and we could have ended up in hospital. As it was the 4x4 did swrve and give us a freight but it stayed on all four wheels and apart from the shock there was no personal injury to us or any other road user. My wife toke some convincing to have a new van as the other van was written off. She will not let me go back to a car for towing as she said she would not feel safe.
WOW,
That got heated, Allan & Gill, i know what you mean and it often strikes me as odd why so many people [& i mean those who never tow] choose a 4X4 as a car ,
BUT it strikes my {single, non caravaning] mate who runs a Discovery SII G4 as odd that i run a Chrysler Grand Voyager when a big Volvo estate would do 90% of what we do.
Its just personal choice, at the end of the day people must belive that to THEM the benifits outweigh the costs.
GUYS, calm down on Allan & Gill they made a perfectly valid observation........
Gareth
That got heated, Allan & Gill, i know what you mean and it often strikes me as odd why so many people [& i mean those who never tow] choose a 4X4 as a car ,
BUT it strikes my {single, non caravaning] mate who runs a Discovery SII G4 as odd that i run a Chrysler Grand Voyager when a big Volvo estate would do 90% of what we do.
Its just personal choice, at the end of the day people must belive that to THEM the benifits outweigh the costs.
GUYS, calm down on Allan & Gill they made a perfectly valid observation........
Gareth
This sort of post is what made me stop looking at the forum 18 months ago, there seems no tolerance any more. It was an observation which I make many times when we are out on the road, I too wonder why the large 4x4's are needed, but that's the choice you have. I don't see why this thread has seemingly become so hostile towards an observation. As far as I see it, if you want to pay the 'high and getting higher running costs' for your 4x4 then fine, me I'm happy with my lighter caravan and standard 'lower running cost' family hatch.
My comments were just that - a personal observation and in no way meant or directed at Allan or Gill. As the saying goes - "each to their own". I know I could tow the caravan with a larger saloon/estate car but it is now our own choice. The vehicle is also used in connection for going on/off building sites and towing a trailer with small construction plant on board. Therefore it is not only a pleasure tool but also a working tool.
Wow.....Allan& Gill, sour subject,but i understand what you were getting out. I am always surprised at how many overturned vans seem to be out there being towed by large old 4X4s,but i would believe that is no concern of mine, if you believe what damian says ! But it is, as i am a road user and it could effect my safety too.
As does "others choices of vehicles" look whats happened EVERYONE has now been hit with higher roadtaxes,but the simple truth is those that are complaining the most,actually made it easy for the government to do so.Which effects me and everyone else too.
So saying "it is no concern of anyone else" Well how short sighted,afterall "smoking" is everyones concern [passive] what makes road users any different.
PS.. my concern is older 4x4s, which pass our lousy mot test,even though there brakes and steering and more important there suspension is really not up to towing. be it because its past its best or really not upto towing the modern heavier caravan.
Becarefull out there if you do tow with an older style large 4x4, please relie on you skills, rather than the vehicles.....
As does "others choices of vehicles" look whats happened EVERYONE has now been hit with higher roadtaxes,but the simple truth is those that are complaining the most,actually made it easy for the government to do so.Which effects me and everyone else too.
So saying "it is no concern of anyone else" Well how short sighted,afterall "smoking" is everyones concern [passive] what makes road users any different.
PS.. my concern is older 4x4s, which pass our lousy mot test,even though there brakes and steering and more important there suspension is really not up to towing. be it because its past its best or really not upto towing the modern heavier caravan.
Becarefull out there if you do tow with an older style large 4x4, please relie on you skills, rather than the vehicles.....
Good point Colin, just because you see a vehicle pulling a certain trailer dosn't mean its the ONLY thing they tow or type of 'work' they do, I'm sure people don't think I run the Voyager just to tow our 300Kgs 'camping' trailer to the tip and back!!
Gareth
Gareth
My thoughts entirely Ian, and to Ray C, first and foremost, I use an estate car for business purposes, and secondly to tow our caravan, the choice of vehicle in my opinion, being very crucial and beneficial in both roles. But once again I will reiterate it was just an observation on the journey home, so please do not ruin a very good platform that we have here with the PC forum, by in some cases being rude, and intolerant of other peoples views.
I must take issue with Giovani's posting. My 4x4 is a 1998 model and has covered apporx. 118000 miles. I am the second owner of the vehicle and until I bought it there was never a tow bar on it. I have it serviced regulary evry 5000 miles no matter what type of use it has had and also it is put in for a pre MOT check approx. 2 to 3 weeks before it is due. I have been driving since 1964 and apart from the caravan accident have never been involved in an accident and only twice had an endorsment on my licence. I like to think of myself as a competant driver and also a person who has respect for his vehicle, my family safety and other road users whether they are pedestrians or HGV drivers. I do not understand your comments regarding old 4x4 not being safe for towing - this could be said for any vehicle if they do not have regular servicing and driven according to the road conditions and within the limitations of the use the vehicle is being put to. I do not drive in the same manner whilst towing as I do whilst driving solo. Obviously solo I can go faster and corner easeier without necessitating the same standard of care needed whilst towing.
Hi Allan & Gill
I used to play the "I spy" game as a kid, good fun it was. Arguably 4x4's and caravans may have reached their saturation levels weightwise. I like our 4x4 and my wife feels safe when she's towing. Now we also have a Mazda MX-5 which would make a lovely tow car. Zero traction from the rear wheel drive in mud when solo, towing, no chance. Amazingly it's mpg is no better than the Sorento!
I suppose we could all go for 5 wheelers or swap to motorcaravans and tow a nice economical little hatchback. Now that is a real joke to me. Have you ever seen one of these try and reverse?? No chance.
Giovanni made a good point re mots. Had the Mazda done the other week and I thought it was quite a stiff test. Maybe testers are different around the country .
Cheers
Alan
I used to play the "I spy" game as a kid, good fun it was. Arguably 4x4's and caravans may have reached their saturation levels weightwise. I like our 4x4 and my wife feels safe when she's towing. Now we also have a Mazda MX-5 which would make a lovely tow car. Zero traction from the rear wheel drive in mud when solo, towing, no chance. Amazingly it's mpg is no better than the Sorento!
I suppose we could all go for 5 wheelers or swap to motorcaravans and tow a nice economical little hatchback. Now that is a real joke to me. Have you ever seen one of these try and reverse?? No chance.
Giovanni made a good point re mots. Had the Mazda done the other week and I thought it was quite a stiff test. Maybe testers are different around the country .
Cheers
Alan
Yes colin, why am i not surprised that you take issue! and let me say your vehicle in my mind is the right side of old,just.
"this could be said of an vehicle" there you go again! NO it could not. My piont is the suspension test is useless and dodgy suspension effects everything more so when loaded ie towing a BIG van.
A large 4x4 has inherent large suspension travel anyway coupled to higher c&g, and the confidence it gives the driver that he is safe, makes them one of the worst combos going.
But ofcorse you are entitled to disagree,for yourself.as it was not aimed directly towards you,per se.But think about it, my warning was for ALL drivers of older 4X4s to take greater care.
You attaking my advice is that really a good idea,rather than just explaining why it does not mean you[singular]although 118,000,if that was my 4x4 used for towing, that would have been replace.
R u saying that is wrong advice? If so R U taking the responsibility to inform ever drivers of these older 4X4 that the fact they MAY have softer suspension made softer by age or mileage which performs ok-ish [non towing] but towing maywell land you in real trouble,is bad advice?
or R U just offended,and taking the offensive,which would be a silly thing to do where safety is concerned is it not.
"this could be said of an vehicle" there you go again! NO it could not. My piont is the suspension test is useless and dodgy suspension effects everything more so when loaded ie towing a BIG van.
A large 4x4 has inherent large suspension travel anyway coupled to higher c&g, and the confidence it gives the driver that he is safe, makes them one of the worst combos going.
But ofcorse you are entitled to disagree,for yourself.as it was not aimed directly towards you,per se.But think about it, my warning was for ALL drivers of older 4X4s to take greater care.
You attaking my advice is that really a good idea,rather than just explaining why it does not mean you[singular]although 118,000,if that was my 4x4 used for towing, that would have been replace.
R u saying that is wrong advice? If so R U taking the responsibility to inform ever drivers of these older 4X4 that the fact they MAY have softer suspension made softer by age or mileage which performs ok-ish [non towing] but towing maywell land you in real trouble,is bad advice?
or R U just offended,and taking the offensive,which would be a silly thing to do where safety is concerned is it not.
Giovanni
Your point about suspension softening with age is also relevant to any car , not just 4x4s. The trouble is not everyone can afford to have a new car every three or four years.
I'm ashamed to say I take far greater care of our own Sorie than I ever did of any of my company cars.
Well I paid my own good money for it and I want it to last me many years. So when it gets to 10 years old I hope it's not ready for the scrap heap nor unroadworthy.
Cheers
Alan
Your point about suspension softening with age is also relevant to any car , not just 4x4s. The trouble is not everyone can afford to have a new car every three or four years.
I'm ashamed to say I take far greater care of our own Sorie than I ever did of any of my company cars.
Well I paid my own good money for it and I want it to last me many years. So when it gets to 10 years old I hope it's not ready for the scrap heap nor unroadworthy.
Cheers
Alan
"Maybe testers are different around the country ."
As a former Class IV [thats cars and light vans] i can say YES , you get to know where to take a car if you 'just want a ticket' and where to go if you realy want it put through its paces and the tester to give you a list of 'its ok now but think about it for the next test' jobs.
As a rule you get what you pay for cheep tests can lead to things getting missed OR big bills as the tester 'finds' work.
gareth
As a former Class IV [thats cars and light vans] i can say YES , you get to know where to take a car if you 'just want a ticket' and where to go if you realy want it put through its paces and the tester to give you a list of 'its ok now but think about it for the next test' jobs.
As a rule you get what you pay for cheep tests can lead to things getting missed OR big bills as the tester 'finds' work.
gareth
Facebook
Twitter