Kia Sportage. Diesel or petrol?

[Sprocker]

Hi All,
We're just getting back into caravanning after a few years away, and need to swap to a better towcar.
We're pretty much decided that the Kia Sportage is the way we want to go but.....can't decide on petrol v diesel.
We have Swift Alpine 2, MTPLM 1218, and there will just be the two of us.
Kerbweight and max tow are OK on all of the Sportages, so it just comes down to engine.
Petrol 1.6Gdi 130bhp, 120lb/ft torque
Deisel 1.7 CRDi 2, 114bhp, 207lb/ft torque.
Towing will be odd weekends and a couple of longer weeks away, UK only.
We retire in 3 years, but until then the car will be getting me to work and back every day, 15 mile round trip.
Your experiences/advice/comments would be very much appreciated on this.

 

[RogerL]

What's your annual mileage? A 15 mile/day commute is only 3,200 miles/year so you may be well short of the mileage needed to justify a diesel - however the lower torque from the petrol version would be noticeable when towing - based on your previous caravanning, can you live with that level of torque?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Sprocker, and welcome to the forum.

I suspect that either model would be fine for you, but here are a few musings which you might find interesting.

Conventionally I would have recommended the diesel, because of their inherent better torque ratings which generally gives a more satisfying towing experience. , But bearing in mind your current relatively short commute, I have concerns about a modern diesel as from my own experience with a VW , the diesel particulate filter (DPF) was a major problem when only used on short journeys. However I don't know how prone the Kia tends to be under the same circumstances.

Before the 1980s most of us used to tow with petrol engines cars, with generally far less available power and torque, so a modern petrol should be better, than those of yesteryear. But for economy and ease diesel is generally better.

But there are other options also now. I believe the newest Sportages are available as a plug in hybrid (PHEV) which introduces another interesting option. Most PHEV's offer about 30 miles pure EV driving. This would meet your daily driving needs, and the electric boost would probably provide good towing performance. All this with much improved over all fuel economy. And access to the increasing number of towns and cities with low emmision zones.

Your choice....

 

[otherclive]

I towed a 1320 kg MTPLM van with a 136 bhp generation 1 Mondeo petrol naturally aspirated auto estate. It did it no problem although at times the engine did require to rev but not to silly levels. In those days diesels were not so common and quite frankly were “dogs”.
Have a look at the Towcar.org matching site I have found it’s output quite well aligned with my last three combinations.

 

[Sprocker]

Thankyou for your exellent replies.
I started my caravanning with a 4 berth Bailey (I have no idea what model or specs, but it was over 35 years ago so probably not the lightest van).
I happily towed that all over the UK for 8 years with a 1600 Ford Cortina.....maybe around 75bhp?
Probably my lack of knowledge back in those days but I was perfectly happy.
My thinking currently is that a modern (4 or 5 years old) 1.6 petrol with 130bhp should do the job for the next few years.
Very good point about the PHEV Sportage, but out of my price range at this point.
Hopefully they will develop even further in the next three years ready for when I retire and the world becomes my playground.

 

[Raywood]

I do agree with the Prof. The 120 lb/ft of the petrol though is very low and while it should manage it could struggle with hill starts. For towing the diesel is easily the better bet but for commuting the petrol should be far better and you will probably do a lot more commuting than towing. If you go for the diesel I think it will need the odd blast down the motorway to clear the DPF.
Are you wedded to the Kia as there are possibly a good few better petrol models out there.

 

[RogerL]

Thankyou for your exellent replies.
I started my caravanning with a 4 berth Bailey (I have no idea what model or specs, but it was over 35 years ago so probably not the lightest van).
I happily towed that all over the UK for 8 years with a 1600 Ford Cortina.....maybe around 75bhp?
Probably my lack of knowledge back in those days but I was perfectly happy.
My thinking currently is that a modern (4 or 5 years old) 1.6 petrol with 130bhp should do the job for the next few years.
Very good point about the PHEV Sportage, but out of my price range at this point.
Hopefully they will develop even further in the next three years ready for when I retire and the world becomes my playground.

If you're looking at 4-5 year old cars, remember that diesels are required to be Euro 6 to be ULEZ compliant in the increasing number of cities with such a zone - petrols are only required to be Euro 4 - that's not an issue right now but as soon as Euro 7 is available in substantial numbers, there will be pressure to ban Euro 6 diesels from ULEZs

 

[audiorob]

Also don't ignore a Tucson if buying around that age to widen your choice of used models - essentially the same car with same engines - just cosmetic differences, although I think the newest Sportage is pleasantly understated in comparison to the new Tucson - all a matter of individual taste I know! No doubt whatever we buy currently that isn't pure electric will eventually take the green hit, but I am currently totally happy with my diesel Tucson for the time being!

 

[ProfJohnL]

... If you go for the diesel I think it will need the odd blast down the motorway to clear the DPF.

With my last car, I was having to do so many extra miles to clear the DPF it rendered its inherent better MPG worse than a petrol equivalent. I do realise that perhaps my car may have been unusual in that respect, but even so having to take steps like a weekly blast does rather defeat the one of the reasons for going for a diesel.

 

[otherclive]

My last two diesels (Volvo D 5 And Superb 2.0) we’re very difficult to diagnose when they were regenerating. Just a blast on a motorway could quite easily see it start to regenerate as you park up on the drive. Not all diesel are sensitive to DPF issues. Many more modern ones have the DPF nearer to the engine exhaust manifold and therefore see gas of the right temperature during normal journeys. Later Defenders had such an arrangement as JLR recognised that farmers would want to use them for shorter trips in cold weather without the hassle of DPF issues. So they regenerate quickly even at slower drives vMany delivery vans do likewise. I have a friend with a 2013 Sportage and he wouldn’t know about DPF if it stood up and smacked him. He just drives it like he drove all his other cars. A mix of local short trips, with occasional longer ones. He’s never mentioned any issues at all with the car. It’s been a gem.

 

[Woodentop]

Most VAG diesel cars will let you know when they are regenerating - the fans keep running when you stop the engine!!

 

[otherclive]

Most VAG diesel cars will let you know when they are regenerating - the fans keep running when you stop the engine!!

My Superb did, but neigh impossible to diagnose when driving, so if it decided to do it on the drive I took it for a 20 minute drive around.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Most VAG diesel cars will let you know when they are regenerating - the fans keep running when you stop the engine!!

Mine didn't!

But it did raise the tickover, and it became slightly lumpy with mini power surges that you could feel when driving. All this happened automatically and initially it did not post the particulate filter warning light. The light only came on after few miles if I was unable to stretch the engine revs ( i.e during suburban driving 20 and 30mph limits)

By the end of my time with the car I was getting the particulate light on after only 200 to 300 miles of driving and it needed typically 40 to 60 miles to clear it even using the ODB service system to trigger a "dealer" regeneration.

Another VAG (Audi 2L diesel) car I recently drove was also showing similar DPF issues.

I'm not suggesting all models are as bad as these two were, but certainly if your purchasing second hand or even new diesels, its an issue that might affect you especially if your only doing short distances where the DPF simply cannot get hot enough to operate properly which will cause it to collect more particulate debris and might lead to excessive regenerations in the not to distant future.

I have now moved to a PHEV with a petrol ICE/hybrid for longer distances.

 

[Hutch]

Welcome Sprocker, whilst the petrol Kia would probably be fine if your not doing to much towing, I personally would prefer the Diesel.

We towed with the 2.2 Santa Fe, for the first three years we would tour a lot. Over the last few years we have not towed so much but have found absolutly no problems with DPFs some days we will do maybe les than 5 miles locally but nearly once a week we will travel about 25 to 30 miles non motorway, but on other occasions we will travel 100 miles to check out a caravan site and area before we go for a week with the van. We have just clocked up 78, 000 miles. The last 4 years we have done the 2 year 20k servicing.
Never had the DPF give a problem.

 

[Woodentop]

Those who have never driven a diesel will not know how much easier the low revs torque make driving - go round corners without changing below 3rd, after the short turbo lag, dropping a cog and footing it is amazing how quick they go. I would be very hard pushed to go back to a petrol.
Read somewhere in the last day or two (CMC mag?) shows petrol doing 17mpg towing whereas it is difficult to get my Passat estate 2L (same bhp) below 28mpg and it tops 30 quite easily. Round town high 40's, slightly longer 53-55 is easy - and no revving!!

 

[Sprocker]

I had back to back drives yesterday of petrol and diesel versions of the same car, same age, same spec, similar mileage. Both cars really impressed me driving solo, and the price difference between the two was minimal.
So taking on board your comments above, and following a lengthy chat with a friend, who is a recently retired mechanic and a long time caravanner, my mind has been set on diesel, and a deposit paid.
Thankyou to everyone for taking the time to comment, your help is very much appreciated.

 

[Beachball]

I had back to back drives yesterday of petrol and diesel versions of the same car, same age, same spec, similar mileage. Both cars really impressed me driving solo, and the price difference between the two was minimal.
So taking on board your comments above, and following a lengthy chat with a friend, who is a recently retired mechanic and a long time caravanner, my mind has been set on diesel, and a deposit paid.
Thankyou to everyone for taking the time to comment, your help is very much appreciated.

I hope you will be very happy with a diesel i love mine it great for pulling the caravan

 

[xtrailman]

Diesel would be my choice.

Having had five now, four fitted with a DPF and never had an issue.

I do mainly short trips locally, use supermarket fuel mainly, and very little motorway driving.

My next car will be a 230ps Sportage hybrid, but I don't expect it to be a better towcar as it's petrol with 50nm less torque.

 

[Tobes]

Those who have never driven a diesel will not know how much easier the low revs torque make driving - go round corners without changing below 3rd, after the short turbo lag, dropping a cog and footing it is amazing how quick they go.

If you think diesel is good for that, you should try electric (Sorry - off topic, but couldn't resist).

 

[otherclive]

Those who have never driven a diesel will not know how much easier the low revs torque make driving - go round corners without changing below 3rd, after the short turbo lag, dropping a cog and footing it is amazing how quick they go. I would be very hard pushed to go back to a petrol.
Read somewhere in the last day or two (CMC mag?) shows petrol doing 17mpg towing whereas it is difficult to get my Passat estate 2L (same bhp) below 28mpg and it tops 30 quite easily. Round town high 40's, slightly longer 53-55 is easy - and no revving!!

With those characteristics my Saab 9000 2.3 CSE turbo and Subaru Forester XT must have been diesel engines; and all this time I thought I had bought petrol engined tow cars! And with an auto box I’ve not had to worry where the ECUs set the engine revs at low speed.

Modern turbo petrols which mine would not be classed as, whilst not having the outright peak torque of a diesel are surprisingly good on the power torque curve.

 

[xtrailman]

Yes the Sportage lve ordered offers 350nm from 1600rpm to 4500 rpm.

My 190ps diesel offers 400nm at 1950rpm to 3300rpm

 

[otherclive]

Interestingly my 1997 Saab 9000 2.3 turbo had 330 Nm and the current Subaru Forester 2.0 XT has 350Nm both from 1800-1900 rpm. Not surprising they were relaxed towcars, albeit climate changing in the extreme.

 

[Robert_374373903]

With my last car, I was having to do so many extra miles to clear the DPF it rendered its inherent better MPG worse than a petrol equivalent. I do realise that perhaps my car may have been unusual in that respect, but even so having to take steps like a weekly blast does rather defeat the one of the reasons for going for a diesel.

Have Octavia 140bhp 2011 with Dsg. After the emission was done I did notice that after a run it regenerated for some time which when asking Skoda they replied no problem. But several times people thought I had left the engine running. At 112k it is just run in now so do not bother about it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Have Octavia 140bhp 2011 with Dsg. After the emission was done I did notice that after a run it regenerated for some time which when asking Skoda they replied no problem. But several times people thought I had left the engine running. At 112k it is just run in now so do not bother about it.

I never had the engine running on after I'd stopped. Are you sure the engine was running or was it just the cooling fans operating? They can be surprisingly loud.

 

[otherclive]

I never had the engine running on after I'd stopped. Are you sure the engine was running or was it just the cooling fans operating? They can be surprisingly loud.

My Skoda Superb 2.0 would run its fans at high speed if I stopped during a dpf regeneration, so I can understand why people close by may have thought Robert had got out and left the engine running. But of course he hadn’t.