Im by no means into LR,i dont run one,dont have the need to.But in their defence and i seen a similar thing 10 years ago in our field perhaps its not so much the actual vehicle thats at fault but maybe the guys who attempt to rectify the faults.Maybe with the vehicles still being "quite" new,it could be a case of not being familar with them.People must remember a lot of these parts i.e, ecu,s,drive lines arnt made by LR.Even so, going by Om,s account i couldnt put up with that hassle.
- Jun 20, 2005
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http://www.discoveryownersclub.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=27900
Amazing! What Car vote Disco 4 the best
So which magazine pundits do you believe?????
Amazing! What Car vote Disco 4 the best
So which magazine pundits do you believe?????
Buying a car is a bit different to going to the local biker pub where there's a punch up every night. A car is a machine. So how are you asking for trouble?Wendy-Norfolk said:
We first bought very near new low mileage Disco, later we found that the car had in fact had problems that were hidden from us before we got it. The Disco is a great 4x4 when it works. If anyone bothered to read what I posted, I've said, what are the chances of getting another dog car and after finding a different dealer we thought we was OK. OK. so we had a second Disco 3 that was a dog. Then along comes Disco 4, new engine, upgraded model. We all know it's a great tow car. Motoring press go in to guffawing loved up praise of the car, I think I've now seen that the editor here and other hacks in the caravan and other press are in to the LR Disco orgasmic love in. Also having a dog car that has cost a shed load of time and money and at about a year old is going to cost you a shed load more trying to trade it in, when a dealer makes a tempting trade in deal, what do you do. With the first Disco 3, when I tried to trade that for a Merc or BMW the dealers were not keen with what they offered and told me to sell it privately.
So despite previous trouble and with press and loved up LR owners like you Wendy we bought a Disco 4. Now come on, 3 bad cars was never going to happen was it?
Disco 4, a 'NEW' Disco, with a new 'ENGINE' and various 'NEW' bits. A bit like swapping from a Merc to a new Audi. Until you have been in a fight with dealers and car manfacturers I can assue you that none of you can understand what people go through. This forum protects caravan manufacturers and takes great care that dealers are not shamed.
Everybody here seems to show great sympathy over things such as cancelled caravan order, leaking caravans, split panels and more. Caravan woes are on items that cost about a 1/3 of a Disco. They are annoying but a caravan is not a mode of transport for getting around in a Disco is and when it gioes wrong it is very inconvenient and even more so when its an ongoing problem. Mention bad LR woahhhhhhh.
Seth, I can assue you that we didn't "put up" with the hassle. We got a full refund on the 4.
Oldsalt49. We've had two ageing M class Mercs and had great service from them as second hand quite high mileage cars.
As with any product you will always hear about the bad things.Who complains when nothing is going wrong?
"Loved up" that's rather a presupposition on your part OmOnWeelz, you know nothing about me, please do not make assumptions that you do!
I have nothing further to contribute to this thread!
I have nothing further to contribute to this thread!
If it is considered that Land Rover products are bad, unreliable, too technical for the service departments to cope with, pilloried by the motoring press. And then cosider that Land Rover hasn't gone out of business, sells 100's of thousands of their products around the world and investing billions of £'s in their further developement. One or two failing Disco's is nothing in the great scheme of things. I find it strange that Chris has been the one to get the sh*tty end of the stick. I can understand his frustration and need to tell his story, but his story is only one small pebble making a ripple in a huge pond. There are thousands, maybe millions of happy customers, if not Land Rover would not exist today, would it??
I have no more to say on this matter, other than to say, I bought my Discovery 3, am pleased with it, it hasn't gone wrong on me (yet).
I have no more to say on this matter, other than to say, I bought my Discovery 3, am pleased with it, it hasn't gone wrong on me (yet).
I've tried to be fair and due to a legal agreement I limited in what I can say on the subject. It would have been nice f Wendy had read my post. My "loved up" comment was only made in reference to the motoring press :-Wendy-Norfolk said:
"Motoring press go in to guffawing loved up praise of the car, I think I've now seen that the editor here and other hacks in the caravan and other press are in to the LR Disco orgasmic love in" is what wrote above.
Oldsalt49. I'm sorry to say that you can find loads of unhappy ex and current LR owners. They are by no means a rare breed.
Clearly you do not read your own postings OmOnWeelz!!
"So despite previous trouble and with press and loved up LR owners like you Wendy we bought a Disco 4. Now come on, 3 bad cars was never going to happen was it?"
Enough said!!
"So despite previous trouble and with press and loved up LR owners like you Wendy we bought a Disco 4. Now come on, 3 bad cars was never going to happen was it?"
Enough said!!
We Brits certainly have short memories! We (the Royal we you understand) are, at the moment having a go at LR, and as I have previously said, possibly with justification. There's nothing worse than spending your hard earned on something only to have no end of trouble with it. In that respect OM, I have every sympathy. However, the Mercedes ML has been mentioned, by me and by OM. We suffered two at work, and they were real dogs in most respects - unreliable, awful ride, noisy, rot boxes, and what dropped off one at a certain mileage, dropped off the other at the same mileage. OM suggests having run two which were excellent, and I'm glad they were. What we've forgotten is that the Discovery hasn't finished as low down in the JD Power survey overall as the ML did. I think it was only supported at the bottom of the pile by the Vauxhall Sintra.
The reason that the press like the Discovery 4 is because it IS so good and compitent. But, what you have to bear in mind is that all the vehicles they test are new (I know you had issues OM from new). Surprisingly the only two vehicles that have needed the Manufacturers' attention at the PC Tow Car event have been a Honda CRV and a Lexus RX400h. On that basis should it be reported that all Hondas and all Lexus are unreliable? I don't think so.
The reason that the press like the Discovery 4 is because it IS so good and compitent. But, what you have to bear in mind is that all the vehicles they test are new (I know you had issues OM from new). Surprisingly the only two vehicles that have needed the Manufacturers' attention at the PC Tow Car event have been a Honda CRV and a Lexus RX400h. On that basis should it be reported that all Hondas and all Lexus are unreliable? I don't think so.
- Jun 20, 2005
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Maybe the answer lies here:- http://www.discoveryownersclub.org/
With over 1500 members I am sure they can say yay or nay
With over 1500 members I am sure they can say yay or nay
The JD power survey is compiled on percentage returned,so if only 1 returned that was bad then your failure rate is 100% and from what i remember is the ML didnt get many replies as they dont sell as many cars as other manufactures and the results were also from the pre 2002 facelift car.
You are referring to the the 2001 survey 10 years ago
The JD power survey also takes into account running cost which includes insurance (biggest complaint from the 2008 survey for the ML) so read what you like into these results
You would have to compare the old ML with a Discovery 2 so not really the same comparison to a D3 as the replacement ML is well up the charts and Mercedes did admit they had issues and tidied up their act and customer service.
As i have said before you only hear of problems when things go wrong,things do go wrong but the important bit is how they are resolved?
I have an ML and we use a D3 for work stuff, better off road LOL 30k milage plus a year and cant fault either of them.
You are referring to the the 2001 survey 10 years ago
The JD power survey also takes into account running cost which includes insurance (biggest complaint from the 2008 survey for the ML) so read what you like into these results
You would have to compare the old ML with a Discovery 2 so not really the same comparison to a D3 as the replacement ML is well up the charts and Mercedes did admit they had issues and tidied up their act and customer service.
As i have said before you only hear of problems when things go wrong,things do go wrong but the important bit is how they are resolved?
I have an ML and we use a D3 for work stuff, better off road LOL 30k milage plus a year and cant fault either of them.
Michael,
I quite agree. The new ML is a world apart from the old one, and yes MB did admit that it was the worst vehicle they'd ever produced. The point that I was making though was that we do have short memories. I suppose that it could be argued that at least MB did something about it. We can only hope that LR might get their acto together one day. Their problems appear to be more about inconsistencies rather than anything else. As we all know LR have had a turbulent history, especially when the tax payer was bailing them out as part of the BL empire (and LR were actually starved of cash, supporting the Austin Allegro, Morris Marina etc), but so have many others. BMW almost went under in the late 60's/early 70's, and if Audi hadn't produced the very aerodynamic 100 in the early 80's they too would have rusted (quite literally) into history.
I suppose what you're saying about the JD Power survey (or any survey for that matter) then is that they do not reflect a true picture. Of course if that is tha case, it must apply to all vehicles. To be honest I once again agree, as I do know that there are folk who are very economical with the truth where certain marques are concerned. I'll say no more on that.
As I have said previously, and corroborated by someone else, LR can sell all that they can produce at the moment, which is obviously good for their coffers, but possibly not for the end user.
I quite agree. The new ML is a world apart from the old one, and yes MB did admit that it was the worst vehicle they'd ever produced. The point that I was making though was that we do have short memories. I suppose that it could be argued that at least MB did something about it. We can only hope that LR might get their acto together one day. Their problems appear to be more about inconsistencies rather than anything else. As we all know LR have had a turbulent history, especially when the tax payer was bailing them out as part of the BL empire (and LR were actually starved of cash, supporting the Austin Allegro, Morris Marina etc), but so have many others. BMW almost went under in the late 60's/early 70's, and if Audi hadn't produced the very aerodynamic 100 in the early 80's they too would have rusted (quite literally) into history.
I suppose what you're saying about the JD Power survey (or any survey for that matter) then is that they do not reflect a true picture. Of course if that is tha case, it must apply to all vehicles. To be honest I once again agree, as I do know that there are folk who are very economical with the truth where certain marques are concerned. I'll say no more on that.
As I have said previously, and corroborated by someone else, LR can sell all that they can produce at the moment, which is obviously good for their coffers, but possibly not for the end user.
Oh dear, I am very sorry Wendy-Norfolk, as you made and numerous other posts had been made since the one you have quoted from I assumed you were refering to my most recent post as most people would
You can refer to JD power and other press reports on Disco 3 or 4 and other LR. A simple line in a search engine "discovery problems" or say "problem Discovery 4 (or3)" or something on those lines. And you get the hell stories and facts.
I've pulled 1 of many such postings, I don't know the person or dealers or anyone involved in what is posted but I can agree with all that is said -
"I have a Discovery 4
Dear Sir / Madam
I have a Discovery 4 Reg No - ******* which is 6 months old with 4000 miles
When I picked vehicle up on delivery it would not go over 30 mph and had to go straight back to dealer.
Over the past three weeks i have had serious problems will on holiday in England. Whilst towing my caravan we have suffered approx 8 occasions of loss of power and emergency brake / DSC failure.
The car was given a computer upgrade while we were in London plus new battery. This failed to solve the problem and we had 4 further power failures on the MI/M6 while travelling North.
Landrover assist was called while at Chester and they could not source the problem.
I rang Edwards LR for help as detailed below.
We eventually nursed the car back to Belfast on Tue 13th and contacted TP Topping my supplying dealer.
Still no solution to car problem - I have spoken to Peter Little at Toppings this afternoon and all he could tell me was that no fault showed up and they had downloaded info to land rover but they have had no reply.
Let me give you full details to date :-
1 23rd Mar we had travelled 60 mile approx when we had loss of power and emergency brake mode showing on car dash. We stopped and restarted car and it was ok for approx same distance when same again happened
2 We reached Birmingham and suddenly rear windows went down and would not close again - took over 20 mins to eventually get them to close.
3 When we reached my daughters the alarm went off and would not respond to key fob - took approx 10 mins to get alarm stopped.
4 Rang Land rover and we got car into dealer for computer upgrade inc new battery and turbo update.
5 Car fine for two weeks - short journeys and no towing.
6 left London 11th April and after towing 50 mile approx the same problem occurred. This happened a further 2/ 3 times before we got to Chester.
7 At Chester I rang Edwards LR to seek help - the showroom staff were present but could hardly wait to get me off the phone and would not even take a phone number in order to get someone to ring me next morning. I rang service manager next morning but they would not help and told me to call LR Assist
8 I then proceeded to ring LR Assist who said they would get someone to call out next morning
9 LR Assist arrived 10.30 am and proceeded to check vehicle on computer - no solution found but evidence of our problems did show up along with the computer upgrade already carried out.
10 LR Assist also installed a computer upgrade for tow bar.
11 We managed to get car home - mainly by stopping every 40mile or so to restart car in the hope it would keep system running.
After arriving home we :-
Contacted Toppings to see if they would collect car and leave us a loan car with tow bar.
Told that LR Assist were going to pick car up and we would get a car with tow bar from LR Assist
Breakdown truck arrived several hours later but we had not received a hire car so sent truck back
Contacted LR Assist who said Enterprise were to deliver a vehicle - when they rang they informed me that they do not hire vehicle with tow bars!!!!
Contacted LR Assist again who said they would source 4x4 for next day
Got phone call from Enterprise to say they had a 4x4 so when I picked it up it was indeed a Freelander but no tow bar AND no fuel - I only just made it to a filling station 2 mile away.
I have still not received a tow vehicle - this is silly if land rover work through a firm who do not supply a tow vehicle - what would I do if stuck in England
Latest news on my car is that Landrover have spoken to Toppings and appear to think problem could be to do with tow bar set up - it was factory fitted. They suggest Toppings tow a trailer to see if they can recreate problem - Is this a joke - there is evidence already on vehicle computer.
Toppings are also going to redo computer upgrade - trying to say that perhaps it was not carried out correctly?????
Toppings can not give me any idea when my car will be returned and we have booked a caravan site and paid money to go away this weekend and we have no tow car.
I have informed service to contact me tomorrow a.m. and if they can not resolve problem to put car on breakdown truck and return where I intend to trade car immediately for another brand - I can not take a chance of further breakdowns in Europe this summer.
I have been somewhat shocked at Toppings lack of concern for a customer who has purchased 16 new cars in the past 16 years and can not even source a temporary vehicle for me.
Friday 16th - had to again make contact with dealer rather than them contacting me - they have informed me that there is a computer problem at LR and can do nothing until Mon19th. They also informed me that insurance on hire car had been extended until Mon. At 4.55pm I decided to check with my insurance company and the insurance had NOT been extended. This was 5 mins before closure and would have meant having no insurance all weekend.
LR Assist have still failed to supply me with a towing vehicle and as a result we have had to cancel a weekend trip with our caravan and have lost our site fees.
I have lost all confidence in my Discovery 4 and feel let down by both LR and my dealer. I intend to end my 16 year relationship with both ASAP and purchase an alternative product
I have appreciated allthe help and advice over the years Alison Mitchell at LR has provided, and it is only because of her that I did not make a change several years ago - this however is too similar to the Milan experience I suffered 6 yrs ago and I will not subject my wife to the stress and worry during our summer trip this year.
How can I have confidence in this vehicle as we plan to set off for 7 weeks to Europe with a caravan and tow to Venice????
I have already suggested getting this car back to Landover - or indeed because of the low mileage etc asking for it to be replaced.
I would appreciate an very early response before I seek legal advice
Regards - Norman Bruce
Comments:
Disco 4
I had no end of trouble with Disco 4 it kept going to reduced performance, fun when you are overtaking! The car went for repair 6 times each time the same problem occured. Finally I took the car back to dealer as my wife would not drive it. Disco 4s are great OFF ROAD CARS they are never on the *******! road they are in the workshop!
Discovery
After a life time of Land Rovers, with 7 years Africa and 3 Discoveries I have been looking to buy a Disco 4 and just can't take the risk. My present Discovery has been a nightmare with new computer module,2 x new suspension pumps,4 x suspension Air Bags, hydraulic pipe burst to transmission,ABS failure, 4 accidents due to brake malfunction (Insurers refuse to insure)Crankshaft pulley failure and more. All fixed at my expense except for 1 compressor. The vehicle has less than 50,000 miles and Land Rover don't give a ****. Its the vehicle I love and want but just don't need the stress and costs. Anyone suggest a good alternative ?
SAME FAULT
We Have " Discovery 4,s 2009/20011.both have the same loss of power.it only seems to happen when realy cold.and for the 1st few miles.The 2009 has been back 5/6 times with this fault.Stratstone Newport are all way nice,but addmit they cannot find the fault,there answer is that it maybe the transmission shifter,i do drive them hard in the sports box 90% of the time.BUT THERES IS A FAULT.Thanks Jon f
Limp Home Mode Loss of power
OUR COMPANY RUN 10 OF THESE DISCOVERY 4'S AND WE HAVE ALL EXPERIENCED THE SAME PROBLEM WHEN TOWING. VERY INTERESTING"
The post is from a regular open public web site so it is already published names and deatils
You can refer to JD power and other press reports on Disco 3 or 4 and other LR. A simple line in a search engine "discovery problems" or say "problem Discovery 4 (or3)" or something on those lines. And you get the hell stories and facts.
I've pulled 1 of many such postings, I don't know the person or dealers or anyone involved in what is posted but I can agree with all that is said -
"I have a Discovery 4
Dear Sir / Madam
I have a Discovery 4 Reg No - ******* which is 6 months old with 4000 miles
When I picked vehicle up on delivery it would not go over 30 mph and had to go straight back to dealer.
Over the past three weeks i have had serious problems will on holiday in England. Whilst towing my caravan we have suffered approx 8 occasions of loss of power and emergency brake / DSC failure.
The car was given a computer upgrade while we were in London plus new battery. This failed to solve the problem and we had 4 further power failures on the MI/M6 while travelling North.
Landrover assist was called while at Chester and they could not source the problem.
I rang Edwards LR for help as detailed below.
We eventually nursed the car back to Belfast on Tue 13th and contacted TP Topping my supplying dealer.
Still no solution to car problem - I have spoken to Peter Little at Toppings this afternoon and all he could tell me was that no fault showed up and they had downloaded info to land rover but they have had no reply.
Let me give you full details to date :-
1 23rd Mar we had travelled 60 mile approx when we had loss of power and emergency brake mode showing on car dash. We stopped and restarted car and it was ok for approx same distance when same again happened
2 We reached Birmingham and suddenly rear windows went down and would not close again - took over 20 mins to eventually get them to close.
3 When we reached my daughters the alarm went off and would not respond to key fob - took approx 10 mins to get alarm stopped.
4 Rang Land rover and we got car into dealer for computer upgrade inc new battery and turbo update.
5 Car fine for two weeks - short journeys and no towing.
6 left London 11th April and after towing 50 mile approx the same problem occurred. This happened a further 2/ 3 times before we got to Chester.
7 At Chester I rang Edwards LR to seek help - the showroom staff were present but could hardly wait to get me off the phone and would not even take a phone number in order to get someone to ring me next morning. I rang service manager next morning but they would not help and told me to call LR Assist
8 I then proceeded to ring LR Assist who said they would get someone to call out next morning
9 LR Assist arrived 10.30 am and proceeded to check vehicle on computer - no solution found but evidence of our problems did show up along with the computer upgrade already carried out.
10 LR Assist also installed a computer upgrade for tow bar.
11 We managed to get car home - mainly by stopping every 40mile or so to restart car in the hope it would keep system running.
After arriving home we :-
Contacted Toppings to see if they would collect car and leave us a loan car with tow bar.
Told that LR Assist were going to pick car up and we would get a car with tow bar from LR Assist
Breakdown truck arrived several hours later but we had not received a hire car so sent truck back
Contacted LR Assist who said Enterprise were to deliver a vehicle - when they rang they informed me that they do not hire vehicle with tow bars!!!!
Contacted LR Assist again who said they would source 4x4 for next day
Got phone call from Enterprise to say they had a 4x4 so when I picked it up it was indeed a Freelander but no tow bar AND no fuel - I only just made it to a filling station 2 mile away.
I have still not received a tow vehicle - this is silly if land rover work through a firm who do not supply a tow vehicle - what would I do if stuck in England
Latest news on my car is that Landrover have spoken to Toppings and appear to think problem could be to do with tow bar set up - it was factory fitted. They suggest Toppings tow a trailer to see if they can recreate problem - Is this a joke - there is evidence already on vehicle computer.
Toppings are also going to redo computer upgrade - trying to say that perhaps it was not carried out correctly?????
Toppings can not give me any idea when my car will be returned and we have booked a caravan site and paid money to go away this weekend and we have no tow car.
I have informed service to contact me tomorrow a.m. and if they can not resolve problem to put car on breakdown truck and return where I intend to trade car immediately for another brand - I can not take a chance of further breakdowns in Europe this summer.
I have been somewhat shocked at Toppings lack of concern for a customer who has purchased 16 new cars in the past 16 years and can not even source a temporary vehicle for me.
Friday 16th - had to again make contact with dealer rather than them contacting me - they have informed me that there is a computer problem at LR and can do nothing until Mon19th. They also informed me that insurance on hire car had been extended until Mon. At 4.55pm I decided to check with my insurance company and the insurance had NOT been extended. This was 5 mins before closure and would have meant having no insurance all weekend.
LR Assist have still failed to supply me with a towing vehicle and as a result we have had to cancel a weekend trip with our caravan and have lost our site fees.
I have lost all confidence in my Discovery 4 and feel let down by both LR and my dealer. I intend to end my 16 year relationship with both ASAP and purchase an alternative product
I have appreciated allthe help and advice over the years Alison Mitchell at LR has provided, and it is only because of her that I did not make a change several years ago - this however is too similar to the Milan experience I suffered 6 yrs ago and I will not subject my wife to the stress and worry during our summer trip this year.
How can I have confidence in this vehicle as we plan to set off for 7 weeks to Europe with a caravan and tow to Venice????
I have already suggested getting this car back to Landover - or indeed because of the low mileage etc asking for it to be replaced.
I would appreciate an very early response before I seek legal advice
Regards - Norman Bruce
Comments:
Disco 4
I had no end of trouble with Disco 4 it kept going to reduced performance, fun when you are overtaking! The car went for repair 6 times each time the same problem occured. Finally I took the car back to dealer as my wife would not drive it. Disco 4s are great OFF ROAD CARS they are never on the *******! road they are in the workshop!
Discovery
After a life time of Land Rovers, with 7 years Africa and 3 Discoveries I have been looking to buy a Disco 4 and just can't take the risk. My present Discovery has been a nightmare with new computer module,2 x new suspension pumps,4 x suspension Air Bags, hydraulic pipe burst to transmission,ABS failure, 4 accidents due to brake malfunction (Insurers refuse to insure)Crankshaft pulley failure and more. All fixed at my expense except for 1 compressor. The vehicle has less than 50,000 miles and Land Rover don't give a ****. Its the vehicle I love and want but just don't need the stress and costs. Anyone suggest a good alternative ?
SAME FAULT
We Have " Discovery 4,s 2009/20011.both have the same loss of power.it only seems to happen when realy cold.and for the 1st few miles.The 2009 has been back 5/6 times with this fault.Stratstone Newport are all way nice,but addmit they cannot find the fault,there answer is that it maybe the transmission shifter,i do drive them hard in the sports box 90% of the time.BUT THERES IS A FAULT.Thanks Jon f
Limp Home Mode Loss of power
OUR COMPANY RUN 10 OF THESE DISCOVERY 4'S AND WE HAVE ALL EXPERIENCED THE SAME PROBLEM WHEN TOWING. VERY INTERESTING"
The post is from a regular open public web site so it is already published names and deatils
Proves my point,cars going back 6 times for the same fault.Nothing to do with the car itself but more like lack of training for mechanics on the product and bad service agents.
I think Nigel's point regarding the ML is very valid here. When the first MLs rolled off the production lines there were several problems with them. Almost all of these problems were addressed within the first year of production once MB sent some of its own chaps from Germany to sort out the failings of the Alabama factory. The ML became a continually better vehicle from that point, and the latest incarnation of the ML is a formidable vehicle.
Landrover on the other hand don't seem to be too fussy for sorting out the problems, and that's the biggest issue really. I think Omonweelz is being unfairly criticised here. He has an opinion on these vehicles which I'd say is more than justified. To own three similar vehicles and have major problems with all three, and with a loan car as well has to be more than just bad luck. And these cars aren't failing after 100k miles, they're failing with walking distances on the clock.
It also never ceases to amaze me how a bit of criticism of Landrover brings some owners out fighting.
If you own a Landrover and you're one of the happy owners who've never had any problems then you win a watch, and I sincerely hope you don't have to suffer the grief that some owners do. But there's no denying the numbe rof gripes about new and nearly new Landrovers is huge.
Landrover on the other hand don't seem to be too fussy for sorting out the problems, and that's the biggest issue really. I think Omonweelz is being unfairly criticised here. He has an opinion on these vehicles which I'd say is more than justified. To own three similar vehicles and have major problems with all three, and with a loan car as well has to be more than just bad luck. And these cars aren't failing after 100k miles, they're failing with walking distances on the clock.
It also never ceases to amaze me how a bit of criticism of Landrover brings some owners out fighting.
Our previous ML was traded in with over 200000 lies on the clock. we had no problems apart from normal service replacements. I didn't break down!
Thank's mcghee, fair post. The fact is that you only have to spend a bit of waiting time in a LR dealer or with LR assistance and you soon see oother owners with problems or hear a load of stories from staff if you can them to talk openly.
The pount about something going wrong six times. does not always reflect on servicing staff. If the computers says it is fixed in a programing issue there is nothing more the techie can do. When it goes wrong again it's beacuse there is a problem in the build of the vehicle or the software build
And it's no good people blaming the suppliers to LR. All marques use outside suppliers, the manufacturer is responsible for what it bangs together and that what it uses in the build is fit for purpose. Cars breaking down on day of deliver or prior to delivery is just not on!
Thank's mcghee, fair post. The fact is that you only have to spend a bit of waiting time in a LR dealer or with LR assistance and you soon see oother owners with problems or hear a load of stories from staff if you can them to talk openly.
The pount about something going wrong six times. does not always reflect on servicing staff. If the computers says it is fixed in a programing issue there is nothing more the techie can do. When it goes wrong again it's beacuse there is a problem in the build of the vehicle or the software build
- Mar 14, 2005
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- 50,935
I am neither for or against LR or any other marque, but I am dismayed at some of the personal experiences that are being banded about as if they must represent the majority of views.
Without wishing to dilute the impact of any failures an individual suffers which are of course at best annoying and worst costly, but reasoned perspective needs to be introduced to this thread.
Cars are remarkably complex collections of mechanical and increasing electronic parts. There are numerous processes that need to work together and it is frankly amazing that cars are as reliable as they are. luxury and 4x4's are even more complex than most cars so there is an increased risk of component failure.
When failures do occur the effects can range from no perceivable change to the vehicle failing to run (or stop), and clearly the impact of each type of failure is very different.
Consequently, whilst an individuals experience of a particular car may be dire, it is not going to be the same for every other user. And because we only tend to write to forums when something goes wrong, there will be a natural bias towards bad experiences.
The other factor here is that you have no formal data about the percentage failure rates. For example, in a forum there are 10 complaints about car type "y" and 2 complaints about car type "z". You might assume that car Y is 5 times more unreliable than z, but when you factor in the numbers of each type sold (y = 100000 units and z only 100units) the percentage unreliabilities are y= 0.01% and z 1% or that z is ten times less reliable than y
No one on this forum has access to all the reliability data the manufacturers can actually gather. However there is a more reliable measure produced by the lease and hire companies. These businesses need to produce data about all their vehicles to enable them to build a reliability and costs structure for each vehicle. Some of this information is made available to the general public, and it must represent the fairest and statistically significant assessment of vehicle reliability available.
Unfortunately even if you use these reliability reports to help you decide on your next vehicle,it does not guarantee that you car will match the average performance of the report, though it is likely to be indicative.
Without wishing to dilute the impact of any failures an individual suffers which are of course at best annoying and worst costly, but reasoned perspective needs to be introduced to this thread.
Cars are remarkably complex collections of mechanical and increasing electronic parts. There are numerous processes that need to work together and it is frankly amazing that cars are as reliable as they are. luxury and 4x4's are even more complex than most cars so there is an increased risk of component failure.
When failures do occur the effects can range from no perceivable change to the vehicle failing to run (or stop), and clearly the impact of each type of failure is very different.
Consequently, whilst an individuals experience of a particular car may be dire, it is not going to be the same for every other user. And because we only tend to write to forums when something goes wrong, there will be a natural bias towards bad experiences.
The other factor here is that you have no formal data about the percentage failure rates. For example, in a forum there are 10 complaints about car type "y" and 2 complaints about car type "z". You might assume that car Y is 5 times more unreliable than z, but when you factor in the numbers of each type sold (y = 100000 units and z only 100units) the percentage unreliabilities are y= 0.01% and z 1% or that z is ten times less reliable than y
No one on this forum has access to all the reliability data the manufacturers can actually gather. However there is a more reliable measure produced by the lease and hire companies. These businesses need to produce data about all their vehicles to enable them to build a reliability and costs structure for each vehicle. Some of this information is made available to the general public, and it must represent the fairest and statistically significant assessment of vehicle reliability available.
Unfortunately even if you use these reliability reports to help you decide on your next vehicle,it does not guarantee that you car will match the average performance of the report, though it is likely to be indicative.
We've had two new ******** washing machines in the last twelve months, under warranty. Does this mean that all ****** washing machines are rubbish?
A lot of repeat of repeat problems occur because the diagnostic equipment does not show a fault ie "computer says no"
Long gone are the days when they used to change a suspect part now that offending part has to show up with an error.
If they change the part under warranty and then return it to the manufacturer, if they find no fault they will charge the garage and as you are fully aware some parts are very expensive.
So the techs hand are tied really as im sure they want to fix the car?
Sometimes you may have 2 faulty parts and changing one will only then highlight another failed/failing part.
Long gone are the days when they used to change a suspect part now that offending part has to show up with an error.
If they change the part under warranty and then return it to the manufacturer, if they find no fault they will charge the garage and as you are fully aware some parts are very expensive.
So the techs hand are tied really as im sure they want to fix the car?
Sometimes you may have 2 faulty parts and changing one will only then highlight another failed/failing part.
Exactly, they gave you NEW ones I bet! They didn't fob you off with unreliable loan models of the same marque, ongoing repairs, shoddy service and workmanship.emmerson said:
I guess at £250 - £500 for a washing machine against against tens of thousands for a Disco
The washer get uplifted and delivered, when the Disco goes 'phut' you are often left for hours to struggle. The Disco is meant to transport you wherever you want to go, the washer stays in one place! Not exactly a thing to compare inconvenience and cost wise is it
Still some have the idea or even push the idea that problem LR's are a pin prick in the number on the road. Plain fact, is that is just not the case, there are still loads of issues with the beasts and an iffy support system for owners.
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