Latest annual survey results.

[Raywood]

I received an email today showing the results of the latest customer survey by the magazine and C&CC, The results look like a total disaster for the UK manufacturers With Knaus, Eriba and Adria taking the first three places and only Coachman in forth getting what I would consider a respectable score. The other three are all around 75% which frankly is appalling . The e mail only shows the positions and you need the magazines for the full details but it is not good reading.
I assume Hobby did not have the numbers to show up as I cannot see them being below the usual bottom placed Eldiss.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I haven't seen the report yet, but assuming you have quoteded accurately, as t you comment the results are appalling, and it goes to show that UK caravan manufacturers should be held accountable for the problems they create for their end-users.

Here's a suggestion for a new years resolution, I will not buy a uk made caravan!

 

[RogerL]

Practical Caravan magazine are doing readers no favours by still giving Elddis a silver award despite getting 75% satisfaction compared to Knaus' 90%

We reveal the winners of our Owner Satisfaction Awards 2023 - Practical Caravan

We take a look at the results of the Owner Satisfaction Awards 2023, in association with the Camping and Caravanning Club.

www.practicalcaravan.com

 

[otherclive]

Practical Caravan magazine are doing readers no favours by still giving Elddis a silver award despite getting 75% satisfaction compared to Knaus' 90%

We reveal the winners of our Owner Satisfaction Awards 2023 - Practical Caravan

We take a look at the results of the Owner Satisfaction Awards 2023, in association with the Camping and Caravanning Club.

www.practicalcaravan.com

Eldiss came virtually the same as the other U.K. makes for new caravans, so not giving them a silver award would be unreasonable. But I would question why any make scoring 75% approx should get any award.

 

[Mr Plodd]

Don't forget that you do need to factor in the cost of each manufacturers product. Rolls Royce/Bentley etc will always score above Vauxhall (and JLR of course)

Best new caravan manufacturer
Gold Award

• Knaus – 89.6%
• Eriba – 85.3%
• Adria – 83%
• Coachman – 82.4%

Silver Award

• Swift Group – 75.7%
• Bailey – 75.1%
• Elddis/EHG – 74.7%

Best pre-owned caravan manufacturer
Gold Award:

• Adria – 86.1%
• Coachman – 84.7%
• Bailey – 81.1%
• Swift – 80.9%
• Lunar – 80.2%

Silver Award:

• Elddis/EHG – 77.8%
• Avondale – 74%

 

[Buckman]

These surveys are never a true representation of satisfaction with caravan build quality as they are often so far off they are a joke and not even worth discussing.

Knaus, Eriba and Adria are a niche market suppliers and nowhere near the volume of sales of UK manufacturers. These brands also have their own problems.

Also the surveys rely on feedback from people who own caravans and as we all know, it is those with issues that probably respond to these surveys. I agree that UK manufacturers need a kick up the rear most times, but a brand out of 100 caravans could produce 90 that are fault free while there are issues with the others.

However out of the 100 people that bought those caravans, how many are actually going to join a club and participate in a survey? Out of those 100 only 25% may join one of the clubs so this will skew any results from a survey.

How many on this and other forums participated in the latest survery?

 

[Mr Plodd]

Well I for one participated

Now just approaching 4 years with my Bailey Phoenix, very pleased with it too.

 

[otherclive]

Don't forget that you do need to factor in the cost of each manufacturers product. Rolls Royce/Bentley etc will always score above Vauxhall (and JLR of course)

Best new caravan manufacturer
Gold Award

• Knaus – 89.6%
• Eriba – 85.3%
• Adria – 83%
• Coachman – 82.4%

Silver Award

• Swift Group – 75.7%
• Bailey – 75.1%
• Elddis/EHG – 74.7%

Best pre-owned caravan manufacturer
Gold Award:

• Adria – 86.1%
• Coachman – 84.7%
• Bailey – 81.1%
• Swift – 80.9%
• Lunar – 80.2%

Silver Award:

• Elddis/EHG – 77.8%
• Avondale – 74%

I really don’t see why cost should be factored in to the survey. That’s just assuming that customers who buy lower priced products are not so discerning. Why should that be the case? I read numerous car reviews where a more expensive car gets slated.
In caravans basically all that changes for the more expensive model are the extra bells and whistles the fundamental building blocks are the same between lower and higher priced models. RR and Bentley compared to more mainstream car models doesn’t really prove anything.

 

[Mel]

Consumer surveys are always skewed by sampling methods. The percentages probably mean very little but the relative ranking intuitively feels unsurprising.
Harder data would need to come from the industry, for instance the percentage of new vans requiring warranty work within the first 12 months. Doubt that data is easy to come by. 😀
Mel

 

[Mr Plodd]

In caravans basically all that changes for the more expensive model are the extra bells and whistles the fundamental building blocks are the same between lower and higher priced models. RR and Bentley compared to more mainstream car models doesn’t really prove anything.

So if all the building blocks are the same across all models why is there a differential in customer satisfaction levels? I suspect that it's not the internal components such as cookers etc, but the physical construction, such as water ingress or insufficient fixings etc that results in complaints.

The point I was trying to make was that its unfair to compare a high priced Coachman/Knaus etc with a much lower priced Elldis/Swift/Bailey the same as its unfair to compare RR with Vauxhall, or high end B&O TV with a Median or LG. Cost does have a bearing!

 

[JTQ]

Knaus, Eriba and Adria are a niche market suppliers and nowhere near the volume of sales of UK manufacturers.

Really, "niche suppliers"?
I suspect you are limiting your concept of the "market", to just the one here in the UK.

 

[Boff]

Niche suppliers, small market, all have their problems blah,blah,blah. Every year it’s the same result, same story and same excuses U.Kvans come very substantially lower than continental competitors. Bit like british Leyland cars 30 odd years ago.

 

[JTQ]

Just like with BL, we get what we accept, and until we individually wake up to that fact, things will not change.

 

[Beachball]

Was very happy with our Abbey caravan it did a good job and when new dealer Couplands Caravan Ltd

 

[Buckman]

Really, "niche suppliers"?
I suspect you are limiting your concept of the "market", to just the one here in the UK.

They probably sell a couple of thousand Swift, Bailey caravans each year, but only a couple fo hundred Knaus, Adria etc caravans so obviously the results of any survey will be very skewed towards imported caravans which is why they are always top of the tables. In their home country markets these caravans could be just as troublesome as UK caravans.

 

[RogerL]

They probably sell a couple of thousand Swift, Bailey caravans each year, but only a couple fo hundred Knaus, Adria etc caravans so obviously the results of any survey will be very skewed towards imported caravans which is why they are always top of the tables. In their home country markets these caravans could be just as troublesome as UK caravans.

Lower sales numbers don't necessarily skew quality surveys, they just widen the statistical accuracy range.

 

[JTQ]

In their home country markets these caravans could be just as troublesome as UK caravans.

Odd then that here they don't seem to be in the surveys dating back to the turn of the century, and very certainly in my years of ownership of a German built caravan they were not.
Not that they can't be improved. Something we could say about our home built caravans, just far too many punters here accept the poor standards they achieve.
Often time after time.

 

[Buckman]

Odd then that here they don't seem to be in the surveys dating back to the turn of the century, and very certainly in my years of ownership of a German built caravan they were not.
Not that they can't be improved. Something we could say about our home built caravans, just far too many punters here accept the poor standards they achieve.
Often time after time.

I am not disputing that UK manufacturers have quality issues, but I am disagreeing with the results of the survey as it cannot be a true reflection as I am sure there are many happy owners of UK built caravans out there and who could be the majority.

 

[otherclive]

There's no evidence that those who provide input to surveys are disgruntled owners. A well constructed survey should draw out both the plus and negative aspects of ownership. Interested owners I am sure do the survey in order to inform the wider audience on their experiences with the product. On the other hand a large number of threads to forums regarding ownership of caravans and motorhomes tend to be owners with problems, not just technical or procedural questions, but problems associated with ownership and or quality of the product and issues with the supplier.

 

[Raywood]

My feeling is that the results are correct. The survey runs annually and apart from the new arrival of Knaus and Eriba the results are remarkably consistent. We have certainly participated without any serious criticism of our caravans, although I agree that those who have had a bad experience ae probably more likely to complain. That still will apply fairly equally across all makes and should balance itself out. Essentially it means that more people felt they had to complain about the bottom ones.
I know some sell more caravans than others but even the smaller numbers should still reveal any problems. I hope this is a wakeup call for the UK companies, but I doubt this.

 

[Beachball]

Well I for one participated

Now just approaching 4 years with my Bailey Phoenix, very pleased with it too.

Some friends i know have got a Bailey Phoenix+ 640 caravan and they are very happy with it what model have you got

 

[woodsieboy]

Maybe it's me but there are some things in life that have no interest for me at all, caravan surveys, tow car of the year, Strictly come dancing, Mr and Mrs Markle, none of them have any postive effect, so my policy is to ignore them all.

 

[Dustydog]

Here we step the thin white line. PCv say we can’t bad mouth a “caravan or associated company”.
Most Journals are open minded to freedom of speech. However I will be the first to understand why PCv must be guarded to Libel actions.
Which ? Can say what they want as can most newspapers! Do I care no . If you don’t like the inability to comment on PCv then maybe it’s time we all left. I know it is stifling but it’s their rules.
Sadly though their Journalists like to brain wash us with these immaterial surveys which tell me everything I know.
90% of all European caravan are fitted with the same electrical / gas fittings. They all fail at some point. What does come out is the attitude by certain manufacturers to water ingress issues. We all know on here Bailey and Swift coughed up . Elddis are failing on here and other caravan forums. Maybe cause£ by the triple change of fiscal ownership over the last two years. They can’t all be bad, people buy them. All the U.K. makers carry a massive reserve in their annual financial reports for failures. Why are some, Elddis, being so instransigent?

I f I have over stepped the mark so be it.

 

[Parksy]

Here we step the thin white line. PCv say we can’t bad mouth a “caravan or associated company”.
Most Journals are open minded to freedom of speech. However I will be the first to understand why PCv must be guarded to Libel actions.
Which ? Can say what they want as can most newspapers! Do I care no . If you don’t like the inability to comment on PCv then maybe it’s time we all left. I know it is stifling but it’s their rules.
Sadly though their Journalists like to brain wash us with these immaterial surveys which tell me everything I know.
90% of all European caravan are fitted with the same electrical / gas fittings. They all fail at some point. What does come out is the attitude by certain manufacturers to water ingress issues. We all know on here Bailey and Swift coughed up . Elddis are failing on here and other caravan forums. Maybe cause£ by the triple change of fiscal ownership over the last two years. They can’t all be bad, people buy them. All the U.K. makers carry a massive reserve in their annual financial reports for failures. Why are some, Elddis, being so instransigent?

I f I have over stepped the mark so be it.

Dustydog, Practical Caravan don't allow us to air complaints or grievances about companies on this forum for the very good reason that here we're only ever getting one side of any story.
This prohibition mainly applies to caravan dealerships holiday parks, caravan sites , or individuals associated with them.
Personally, I don't doubt that the details of the disputes or grievances are mostly true, but companies have no automatic right of reply here which, as you stated, could leave us vulnerable to litigation.
Where caravan manufacturers are concerned, it's a well known and obvious fact that sub-standard products have at times been released for sale and criticism of these manufacturers on this forum is legitimate.
There needs to be a massive shift in the attitude of caravan buyers before things will change, and the comments which detail these failings from manufacturers may one day help to bring about a change in perceptions from buyers and better working practices from manufacturers.
No caravan manufacturer is compelled to answer to any caravan forum, but they certainly need to answer to their dealership networks who sell these products and who should ultimately be made to pay under the terms of the CRA.
I've stated this before, we allow caravan related publications to paint a rosy picture within their magazine articles.
We should use the 'Letters to the Editor' platforms, newspaper comments sections and any social media such as Facebook or Twitter which aren't bound by the rules of a caravan forum to challenge the rose tinted viewpoints of caravan journalists and editors.
A caravan forum can become an echo chamber, most of us are aware of the various problems and agree that change is needed, so get scribbling to the wider world, we all know the problems on here. 😉

 

[RogerL]

Dustydog, Practical Caravan don't allow us to air complaints or grievances about companies on this forum for the very good reason that here we're only ever getting one side of any story.
This prohibition mainly applies to caravan dealerships holiday parks, caravan sites , or individuals associated with them.
Personally, I don't doubt that the details of the disputes or grievances are mostly true, but companies have no automatic right of reply here which, as you stated, could leave us vulnerable to litigation.
Where caravan manufacturers are concerned, it's a well known and obvious fact that sub-standard products have at times been released for sale and criticism of these manufacturers on this forum is legitimate.
There needs to be a massive shift in the attitude of caravan buyers before things will change, and the comments which detail these failings from manufacturers may one day help to bring about a change in perceptions from buyers and better working practices from manufacturers.
No caravan manufacturer is compelled to answer to any caravan forum, but they certainly need to answer to their dealership networks who sell these products and who should ultimately be made to pay under the terms of the CRA.
I've stated this before, we allow caravan related publications to paint a rosy picture within their magazine articles.
We should use the 'Letters to the Editor' platforms, newspaper comments sections and any social media such as Facebook or Twitter which aren't bound by the rules of a caravan forum to challenge the rose tinted viewpoints of caravan journalists and editors.
A caravan forum can become an echo chamber, most of us are aware of the various problems and agree that change is needed, so get scribbling to the wider world, we all know the problems on here. 😉

Why does Practical Caravan have a magazine and a forum if the two have to be totally separate?